If the beginnings of Genesis aren't literally true, then what way are they true?

[Chriliman]

Correction: That is like asking a mechanic about God. It's absurd.

Actually, you could ask a mechanic about God and God could very easily teach both of you something about Himself. We can learn about God from anything in His creation, this only ads to how amazing He and His creation is.

 

[Chriliman]

How do you know there is "infinite knowledge?"

Because we didn't create knowledge. Point to when and who you think created knowledge and it would be them who has infinite knowledge. Or maybe you think knowledge can come from an unknowable singularity. I'm sorry it just seems absurd to me.

 

[HitchSlap]

Because we didn't create knowledge. Point to when and who you think created knowledge and it would be them who has infinite knowledge. Or maybe you think knowledge can come from an unknowable singularity. I'm sorry it just seems absurd to me.

I'm asking you how we quantify knowledge, and then make the determination it is infinite?

 

[Chriliman]

I'm asking you how we quantify knowledge, and then make the determination it is infinite?

I'll use my subjective brain to quantify knowledge by saying this: knowledge is the ability to know all things at all times. This would be perfect knowledge. Or rather infinite knowledge, I'm not capable of this kind of knowledge yet somehow I can describe it to some degree, how do you think that is possible?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Nope. Adam never existed, nor did Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses; and current scholarship is beginning to admit there is no evidence for the existence of a Jesus as described in the NT.

They have modern names for this but the Bible calls it the apostasy or the falling away from the truth.

 

[HitchSlap]

They have modern names for this but the Bible calls it the apostasy or the falling away from the truth.

Call it what you want, but there's no contemporary evidence of Jesus ever existing as a real person.

 

[Chriliman]

Call it what you want, but there's no contemporary evidence of Jesus ever existing as a real person.

Does this mean you believe contemporary evidence will never be found? If not then you must believe it's still possible that Jesus did live and exist.

Btw what exactly determines evidence as contemporary?

 

[HitchSlap]

Does this mean you believe contemporary evidence will never be found? If not then you must believe it's still possible that Jesus did live and exist.

Btw what exactly determines evidence as contemporary?

Doesn't matter what I believe. Fact is, there is no contemporary evidence to corroborate a literal Jesus ever lived.

 

[Chriliman]

Doesn't matter what I believe. Fact is, there is no contemporary evidence to corroborate a literal Jesus ever lived.

I guess if you really think your beliefs don't matter, then why should I listen to you at all? If everyone thought their beliefs don't matter and everyone agreed, what would drive us to even communicate with one another?

 

[ScottA]

How do you know there is "infinite knowledge?"

It has been given to me, just as it has to millions down through all of history.

How's that?

I asked. God answered. It's quite a common experience actually.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Call it what you want, but there's no contemporary evidence of Jesus ever existing as a real person.

That is absurd. There is a Hugh testimony of witness for Jesus, the life He lived and His ministry. The early church fathers went to great length to study His teaching.

 

[HitchSlap]

That is absurd. There is a Hugh testimony of witness for Jesus, the life He lived and His ministry. The early church fathers went to great length to study His teaching.

You seem to be a bit behind the curve of current scholarship. There is no contemporary sources to corroborate a real Jesus ever existed. At this point, it would seem he is wholecloth fabricated myth.
Of course if you have evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears.

 

[HitchSlap]

It has been given to me, just as it has to millions down through all of history.

How's that?

I asked. God answered. It's quite a common experience actually.

Huh, who knew?

 

[HitchSlap]

I guess if you really think your beliefs don't matter, then why should I listen to you at all? If everyone thought their beliefs don't matter and everyone agreed, what would drive us to even communicate with one another?

Sigh.

 

[paulm50]

And there's good reason to believe that both Josephus and Tacitus references to Jesus were much later inserted to these manuscripts. I've heard the Josephus reference explained as a commercial - as in, you're watching a re-run of the X-Files, and a Hillary Clinton commercial comes on during the ad break.

Which only goes to prove how easy it is to write what one wants to read. Where as science is far more than just words in a book. It has real evidence to back it up. The bible has so little, Genesis none and a lot of evidence to disprove it.

As soon as someone explains to me exactly how our universe came from an unknowable singularity, then I'll believe it. Unfortunately, explaining something that is unknowable would actually be impossible, because how could you explain it if it's unknowable?

So Genesis is made up.

God has explained Himself very well to me and how He explains His existence can explain how our universe came to be and can also explain the bizarre behavior at the quantum level.

No he didn't men who wrote a book, from fable stories, told you wnat to think.

Again, as soon as someone explains an unknowable singularity or how the seemingly impossible behavior of quantum particles is actually possible, I'll continue believing God who has clearly shown me how everything in this universe exists. These are my beliefs.

So we are going from Genesis to quantum physics. This thread is about if Genedis is literally true, which you now accept it isn't. So men made it up. And didn't make up the rest of the book. Everything in the bible is open to scrutiny, because until we get passed the life of Jesus, there's little proof if any at all.

Even if someone could explain the unknowable singularity, I would still have to believe them, even if they presented evidence, I'd still have to believe the evidence was actually true. I can't be absolutely objective about evidence, simply because I'm subjective, I have to BELIEVE it represents truth. This is actually the problem with science, we think we're reaching absolute objectivity, when in reality this is impossible, unless we could take ourselves out of our brains. Hey I know someone who doesn't even need a brain because His existence is beyond time and space, thank God for His INFINITE wisdom and knowledge.

And there's how Bronze Age man was able to con so many into believing they could talk to god. Or god spoke to them. It was a primitive world so they could get away with so much. They could say natural events were the work of god, god or bad depended on the people doing as the priest-tribe leader told them to do. You now say god doesn't need a brain to have wisdom and knowledge.

If someone could prove to me something in the bible are true, I will believe those parts. I believe Paul, Peter, and a few others. I believe Mary existed and could of been the wife of Jesus. John from Revelation may have existed, if he did he was a madman and Revelations is there to scare the people. As Jesus predicted so much would happen in the life time of the listeners around him. Revelations isn't something I take seriously.

How you can trust a book that's wrong in so many places, presents no evidence outside the book. Had been used as a tool to oppress billions. Now Fundamental Islamists are doing what Christians did for over 1,000 years. That's the danger of believing false prophets.

 

[paulm50]

There is finite knowledge, and there is infinite knowledge. Science is finite and limited. Infinite knowledge is unlimited. Yet people asking the meaning of life questions turn to finite information for the answer. That is like asking a mechanic what lies beyond the next bend. Correction: That is like asking a mechanic about brain surgery. Correction: That is like asking a mechanic about God. It's absurd. Would you go to a doctor to get your car fixed? Would you call a plumber about an electrical problem. Yet...that is exactly what so many do...they believe finite information about infinite subjects. Obviously, it's not a very effective practice.

How can science be finite when we're learning something every day?

How can the bible be infinite when it stopped being added to 1650 years ago?

Asking a Bronze Age preacher about the universe and how we all got here. Is like asking a 2 year old to fix a jet engine. But it works for some.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You seem to be a bit behind the curve of current scholarship.

I would hope that I am more than a bit behind when it comes to the apostasy. We are told to expect a falling away from the truth and we should be able to identify that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

How can science be finite when we're learning something every day?

How can the bible be infinite when it stopped being added to 1650 years ago?

Every day we can continue to add to our understanding of the bible. We are to be transformed so we can be what the Bible says we can be and do what the Bible says we can do.

 

[Chriliman]

Which only goes to prove how easy it is to write what one wants to read. Where as science is far more than just words in a book. It has real evidence to back it up. The bible has so little, Genesis none and a lot of evidence to disprove it.


So Genesis is made up.


No he didn't men who wrote a book, from fable stories, told you wnat to think.

So we are going from Genesis to quantum physics. This thread is about if Genedis is literally true, which you now accept it isn't. So men made it up. And didn't make up the rest of the book. Everything in the bible is open to scrutiny, because until we get passed the life of Jesus, there's little proof if any at all.


And there's how Bronze Age man was able to con so many into believing they could talk to god. Or god spoke to them. It was a primitive world so they could get away with so much. They could say natural events were the work of god, god or bad depended on the people doing as the priest-tribe leader told them to do. You now say god doesn't need a brain to have wisdom and knowledge.

If someone could prove to me something in the bible are true, I will believe those parts. I believe Paul, Peter, and a few others. I believe Mary existed and could of been the wife of Jesus. John from Revelation may have existed, if he did he was a madman and Revelations is there to scare the people. As Jesus predicted so much would happen in the life time of the listeners around him. Revelations isn't something I take seriously.

How you can trust a book that's wrong in so many places, presents no evidence outside the book. Had been used as a tool to oppress billions. Now Fundamental Islamists are doing what Christians did for over 1,000 years. That's the danger of believing false prophets.

Did Bronze Age men know what was going on at the quantum level? If not then why did they believe in a God that can explain what we are still trying to explain today? This very question shows everything you've said could easily be wrong.

Doesn't it make sense for God to have created us and then try to teach us his truth, but since many intelligent people don't listen they instead do their own thing and learn about the universe using their brains, which leads to all the scientific knowledge we have today, but we've reached a point where it's impossible to explain using science, but easy to explain with God. Don't you think it makes sense that God knew this was going to happen the entire time, effectively using knowledge to destroy our evil ignorance of Him.

This makes sense to me, maybe not to you.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

how is rejecting evolution at odds with all science?! for the last 5000 years of recorded and documented history i am still waiting for the slightest evidence that an ape or any animal for that matter is evolving into something else. let alone say what humans are evolving into? someone just give me anything.As far as i am concerned evolution is the biggest hoax ever concocted by men who had not answers ti their origin let alone explain their very existance.

Absolutely. We hear all this hype about the "facts" of evolution, but where are they? I don't look around me and see creatures changing from one kind into another. Some are so intrinsically different that to believe it could happen beggars belief anyway. There's little comfort for the evolutionists in the fossil record either from what I've heard. Then there are the massive problems with trying to explain how lifeless chemicals could acquire almost unbelievable amounts of information to build life, whilst managing to control some chemicals' natural tendency to move away from life (as one biologist commented, "What is death anyway, but the triumph of chemistry over biology."). We can't even create the first stages of life with all our modern-day expertise, so to believe that lifeless chemicals could do it on their own takes a lot more faith than I have. Then there's the so-called Big Bang and all its problems, but despite that it must have happened because otherwise we are left with "God created" and we can't have that can we? It seems that anything goes except giving God the credit for all this, "Rom 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen."