If the beginnings of Genesis aren't literally true, then what way are they true?

[HitchSlap]

I would hope that I am more than a bit behind when it comes to the apostasy. We are told to expect a falling away from the truth and we should be able to identify that.

Aka ignoring reality.

 

[paulm50]

If god created the Earth, and the Garden of Eden with all it's components, plus Cain and Abel. He has been trying his utmost to kill as many of us as possible since the beginning.

He created an Earth that today killed many, when due to rain, flash floods hit Tbilisi, Georgia. They haven't totalled the dead up yet. He created the Malaysian earthquake was blamed on a group taking naked pictures on a sacred mountain. Nepal and Borneo earthquakes, Colorado storms, Winter weather in Tennessee, Snowstorm in Syria, flooding in Peru, and these are just a few recent one. Add to them all the bugs that carry diseases, germs, cancer, the list is too long to include all the ways he is trying to kill us.

He created an Earth that has so many ways to kill us. Infant mortality is at it's worse in very Christian countries, check out the statistics.

Add to these things like too much rain, snow, or now enough rain or snow, too cold, too hot. Crops are very fragile, the last thing they need is a weather system, created by god, that makes them fail. Look at California for evidence.

This World kills indiscriminately, doesn't care if you're the most holy of evil. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time, it will kill you. It's been designed to kill you.

Or is someone else responsible for it? Maybe satan did all this and god can't stop him. We're not to blame, these things take the innocent and guilty with them.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If god created the Earth, and the Garden of Eden with all it's components, plus Cain and Abel. He has been trying his utmost to kill as many of us as possible since the beginning.

He created an Earth that today killed many, when due to rain, flash floods hit Tbilisi, Georgia. They haven't totalled the dead up yet. He created the Malaysian earthquake was blamed on a group taking naked pictures on a sacred mountain. Nepal and Borneo earthquakes, Colorado storms, Winter weather in Tennessee, Snowstorm in Syria, flooding in Peru, and these are just a few recent one. Add to them all the bugs that carry diseases, germs, cancer, the list is too long to include all the ways he is trying to kill us.

He created an Earth that has so many ways to kill us. Infant mortality is at it's worse in very Christian countries, check out the statistics.

Add to these things like too much rain, snow, or now enough rain or snow, too cold, too hot. Crops are very fragile, the last thing they need is a weather system, created by god, that makes them fail. Look at California for evidence.

This World kills indiscriminately, doesn't care if you're the most holy of evil. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time, it will kill you. It's been designed to kill you.

Or is someone else responsible for it? Maybe satan did all this and god can't stop him. We're not to blame, these things take the innocent and guilty with them.

The earth is in a fallen condition. Soon God will restore His creation back to His purpose and intention. For now the invitation is open for who so ever is willing let them come. It is not God's desire for any to perish but for all to come to a saving knowledge of the truth. For now as you point out all of creation is in a fallen condition. You are either in or out. Either a part of the problem or a part of the cure. There is no fence sitting allowed. Each individual has to decide if they want to be redeemed and restored or perish.

 

[joshua 1 9]

That's the problem, you're saying things that you make up.

I am not making things up. This is what Christians believe.

 

[Chriliman]

The Earth, elements, climate, etc. If you're clutching at straws to prove god has a hand in it somewhere. Go ahard, I suggest you use Google before doing so, It's that easy to shoot you down.

Isnt "earth, elements, climate" considered nature? So you're saying nature created nature...this seems like a bad case of circular reasoning.

Yes someone else said it, wanted to show how wrong he was. And how easy it is to create life.

See above. sorry for mistaking you.

I appreciate the apology.

It's now time for his his knowledge, another false prophecy from another false prophet. The harsh truth is the church is losing members by the day.

What truth are you using to even call me a false prophet? If you're attempting to stand on the truth of the Bible to call me a false prophet, then I assure you neither Christians or God himself will back that claim.

If the Bible doesn't support the truth I speak, then I repent and ask God for forgiveness. At this point I have no idea if you believe in God or not, what exactly are your beliefs other than that the bible is wrong. Do you believe in the big bang theory or singularity. Do you believe in an absolute truth about life?

 

[paulm50]

The earth is in a fallen condition. Soon God will restore His creation back to His purpose and intention. For now the invitation is open for who so ever is willing let them come. It is not God's desire for any to perish but for all to be redeemed and restored. For now as you point out all of creation is in a fallen condition. You are either in or out. Either a part of the problem or a part of the cure. There is no fence sitting allowed. Each individual has to decide if they want to be redeemed and restored or perish.

The Earth has always been like this. it was either gods intention for Cain to kill Abel or his mistake.
If he didn't Eve to eat the apple, why put the tree and snake in the garden, Same goes for so many other times god killed.
So it seems we failed from the beginning.

Isnt "earth, elements, climate" considered nature? So you're saying nature created nature...this seems like a bad case of circular reasoning.

Go do the research, it's all there in depth. If you want to prove god only created nature, you lose. Because nature keeps killing us.

What truth are you using to even call me a false prophet? If you're attempting to stand on the truth of the Bible to call me a false prophet, then I assure you neither Christians or God himself will back that claim.

Go see what you prophesied.

If the Bible doesn't support the truth I speak, then I repent and ask God for forgiveness. At this point I have no idea if you believe in God or not, what exactly are your beliefs other than that the bible is wrong. Do you believe in the big bang theory or singularity. Do you believe in an absolute truth about life?

I have no knowledge of god, I have a lot of knowledge I can search for online. None of it proves there's a god. a lot of it proves the OT writers had no idea what they were writing about.

Like Chriliman you're looking for straws to clutch at to reprove what has been disproved.

If the bible speaks the truth about the Creation of the Earth, prove it with scientific evidence. Yes I believe in the Big Bang, yes I believe in the absolute truth about life, but my knowledge is limited to what we know in 2015, not 1,000 BC.

Such as there were dinosaurs, some died out, some evolved into birds, there were lots of different branches of the Ape family, one of those branches was hominids, out of which cane Homo Sapiens who walked the Earth with Neanderthals, met and mated. They're gone, but their DNA lives in us.

I believe if some being did create us, he gave us a brain to search out the truth. Not to rely on a book that tells us not to questions what it says, because it's afraid of being found out. Any book of truth wouldn't need a law of heresy.

And if this world was created by a god, it was created to kill us as much as it can. It's killed so many creatures before us.

I have come up with evidence, none of you saying I'm wrong have come up with anything. Try disproving me, so many are watching you and wondering why.

 

[paulm50]

I am not making things up. This is what Christians believe.

The bible makes the things up for you, Christians just repeat them.

"For now as you point out all of creation is in a fallen condition."
This implies that you believe the Earth wasn't created with weather conditions, volcanoes, the Plates that are always moving. Got any proof of that in the bible?

We know god put temptation in the garden and cause Cain to kill Abel, for no reason. Or just made a mistake that led to Cain killing Abel.

 

[Chriliman]

Chriliman said - "I guess if you really think your beliefs don't matter, then why should I listen to you at all? If everyone thought their beliefs don't matter and everyone agreed, what would drive us to even communicate with one another?"

Sigh.

Seriously just think about it. If you were the only man on earth with all the current knowledge you have and all the sudden another man appeared in front of you, with very little to 0 knowledge, you could tell this man that the truth is based on evidence and facts. He would first have to believe you and then learn from you and then attempt experiments himself. It started with belief.

If, instead you decided to tell him nothing because you don't think your beliefs matter, what would the man do? He would explore on his own and discover things and form his own beliefs about the world, except the beliefs he'd likely form would be far from the truth that you could have easily told him and shown him.

Point is, beliefs are very important and since there is only one absolute truth about this life, believing in that absolute truth is the most important thing a human can do in life.

I think you're well aware of what I believe the absolute truth is. I hope and pray that someday you believe it as well. The Bible tells me to love my enemies and pray for them.

Matthew 5:44
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"

I think if you really think about that, you'll realize it's something you can't possibly do on your own will power, the ability to actually love your enemies can only come from true love, which is God.

Can you imagine what this world would be like if we all loved our enemies? I think it wouldn't take long for enemies to become friends. This is God's desire. Why wouldn't you want to believe in a God who thinks like this and can give you eternal life? Show me any other "religion" that even comes close to being this beautiful! Believe if you want to believe and you will see, don't believe and you won't see.

 

[crjmurray]

how is rejecting evolution at odds with all science?! for the last 5000 years of recorded and documented history i am still waiting for the slightest evidence that an ape or any animal for that matter is evolving into something else. let alone say what humans are evolving into? someone just give me anything.As far as i am concerned evolution is the biggest hoax ever concocted by men who had not answers ti their origin let alone explain their very existance.

Please go on.

 

[morse86]

Almost all of the bible is literal. When God said 6 days, it's 6 days.


Some of the books of the bible, the chapters are split into 2. God explains the first chapter in great detail in the second chapter. Examples of this are the Book of Relevation: it is split into 2 halves, the second halve explains the first halve in detail. Same with Genesis 1 and 2. There is NO gap.

The gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John explain in detail each other. What you don't understand in Matthew, you can study Mark/Luke/John and see if the specific meaning is revealed unto you etc. It's the same gospel.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The Earth has always been like this.

The earth has not always been like this. At the time of Pangaea the animal began to devour and destroy one another. It's been this way for maybe 300 million years. Still we are told of a time of redemption and restoration. The world will return to the condition God intended it to be.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The earth has not always been like this. At the time of Pangaea the animal began to devour and destroy one another. It's been this way for maybe 300 million years. Still we are told of a time of redemption and restoration. The world will return to the condition God intended it to be.

How did you come to this strange conclusion about a time when some life on earth did not devour other life on earth? Why did you set the date as you did for that change?

 

[paulm50]

The earth has not always been like this. At the time of Pangaea the animal began to devour and destroy one another. It's been this way for maybe 300 million years. Still we are told of a time of redemption and restoration. The world will return to the condition God intended it to be.

Where in the bible does it mention Pangaea?

You can't jump in and out of the written word. You're stuck with Genesis.

The moving of the continents is still happening, hence Earthquakes. Anilmal have always devoured one another, it's how predators feed. Unless you mean herbivores devouring each other, which is BS.

This is the world your god intended, a world intended to kill us and animals, whether they're "god fearing" have any clue of your god, or innocent babies and animals. Your god has a habit of killing directly no matter how good or bad people are. The bible says so.

Almost all of the bible is literal. When God said 6 days, it's 6 days.

so god built a world that never stops trying to kill, innocent, guilty, animals, babies. Anyone he chooses is at risk to have him kill them.

Why?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Seriously just think about it. If you were the only man on earth with all the current knowledge you have and all the sudden another man appeared in front of you, with very little to 0 knowledge, you could tell this man that the truth is based on evidence and facts. He would first have to believe you and then learn from you and then attempt experiments himself. It started with belief.

If, instead you decided to tell him nothing because you don't think your beliefs matter, what would the man do? He would explore on his own and discover things and form his own beliefs about the world, except the beliefs he'd likely form would be far from the truth that you could have easily told him and shown him.

The irony is kind of acute here. Those who understand something of science are presenting that information on this very forum, but those with, as you describe it "very little to 0 knowledge" aren't exactly willing students. And your optimism that creationist's beliefs can easily be swayed by anything as straightforward as reason and evidence "beliefs he'd likely form would be far from the truth that you could have easily told him and shown him" is almost touching.

 

[Chriliman]

The irony is kind of acute here. Those who understand something of science are presenting that information on this very forum, but those with, as you describe it "very little to 0 knowledge" aren't exactly willing students. And your optimism that creationist's beliefs can easily be swayed by anything as straightforward as reason and evidence "beliefs he'd likely form would be far from the truth that you could have easily told him and shown him" is almost touching.

I've read and learned enough science to realize we'll never get to the absolute truth by observing our universe, unless we could somehow become beings that are not subjectively bound inside our brains. I've sought biblical truth and scientific truth and have realized after the experiences I've had that biblical truths can explain this universe and why I'm here far better than science can explain it. But I still have to "believe" the bible has all the answers, just like I'd have to believe science has all the answeres. Because the truth is many of you don't know the absolute truth about life, which is why you MUST BELIEVE it's there to be known.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

I've read and learned enough science to realize we'll never get to the absolute truth by observing our universe, unless we could somehow become beings that are not subjectively bound inside our brains.

Depends what you mean by absolute truth. And the point of the scientific method is to be as objective as possible.

I've sought biblical truth and scientific truth and have realized after the experiences I've had that biblical truths can explain this universe and why I'm here far better than science can explain it.

No, it can't. What you might mean is that it explains it in a way that makes you personally feel happy and satisfied, but that has little to do with explaining it as accurately as we can.

But I still have to "believe" the bible has all the answers

Why? Examing why you need to believe the bible has answers may be more enlightening than the contents of that book.

, just like I'd have to believe science has all the answeres.

It doesn't, and we don't know that it ever will. But it has an awful lot of answers, many more than the bible will ever give you.

Because the truth is many of you don't know the absolute truth about life, which is why you MUST BELIEVE it's there to be known.

From what you say it seems probable that you are unaware of how much actually is known. And I also get the impression that you have a preconceived idea of what you expect the absolute truth, as you call it, to be. I'm afraid it might turn out to be rather different from what you want it to be.

 

[Chriliman]

Depends what you mean by absolute truth. And the point of the scientific method is to be as objective as possible.



No, it can't. What you might mean is that it explains it in a way that makes you personally feel happy and satisfied, but that has little to do with explaining it as accurately as we can.




Why? Examing why you need to believe the bible has answers may be more enlightening than the contents of that book.



It doesn't, and we don't know that it ever will. But it has an awful lot of answers, many more than the bible will ever give you.



From what you say it seems probable that you are unaware of how much actually is known. And I also get the impression that you have a preconceived idea of what you expect the absolute truth, as you call it, to be. I'm afraid it might turn out to be rather different from what you want it to be.

The term "absolute truth" means a truth that is unchangeable or unalterable, it is the single truth that explains everything. This is what we're all trying to understand. The fact that we don't understand it yet, means we must believe it's there to be understood. If you're intelligent then you'll agree with this.

This also means anyone can say what they believe the absolute truth is, simply because absolute truth is not yet defined by our subjective minds and can never be defined by our subjective minds. Science may claim to "try" to be objective, but we must understand that science will never reach absolute objectivity. Anyone with any intelligence will agree with this.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
Einstein

What if we take this statement from Einstein a step further and say: Everything is made as simple as possible and we actually have nothing to do with it because we fall within everything that has been made as simple as possible.

Our drive to find a simple answer to the universe is actually our drive to understand a vast complexity that we can never fully understand because we are a part of that vast complexity that was not made by us. There's a simple answer and it's in the Bible. Getting to the simple answer is not an easy process.

Can you think of simpler laws to live by than the following?

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If everyone believed in these laws, where would we go wrong? It's based in love, is true love corruptible?

“Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it’s worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains.”
Steve Jobs

I don't know if Jobs was a Christian, but this quote is basically straight out of the Bible.

Matthew 17:20
"Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

Explain to me why there is so much connection between what the Bible says and what modern geniuses like Einstein and Jobs said? Problem is you can't explain it, but I can. What's the difference between me and you? I have faith in God and you do not.

Continue not believing and you'll continue being blinded from seeing the truth. Start comparing what geniuses are saying to what the Bible is saying and you'll begin to see that all genius came from one single Genius mind that authored the Bible.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If he didn't Eve to eat the apple, why put the tree and snake in the garden,

You can point a finger at Eve but we have the same choice today. We can choose healthy feed, we can choose unhealthy food. Like Eve and the serpent i.e. the CEO's are telling people the unhealthy food is "good". Today food i.e. cardio vascular disease is the leading cause of preventable death. Was Eve a real person? Yes she was. Still as a metaphor there is still a lesson in the story for all of us. For adults and children alike.

 

[paulm50]

I've read and learned enough science to realize we'll never get to the absolute truth by observing our universe, unless we could somehow become beings that are not subjectively bound inside our brains. I've sought biblical truth and scientific truth and have realized after the experiences I've had that biblical truths can explain this universe and why I'm here far better than science can explain it. But I still have to "believe" the bible has all the answers, just like I'd have to believe science has all the answeres. Because the truth is many of you don't know the absolute truth about life, which is why you MUST BELIEVE it's there to be known.

That's why science admits there is something new to learn every day, why it's being added to, and why the bible stopped at what men knew 1,000s of years ago.

As you said. "The term "absolute truth" means a truth that is unchangeable or unalterable, it is the single truth that explains everything." Science is continually learning, not bound by lines of text.

 

[paulm50]

You can point a finger at Eve but we have the same choice today. We can choose healthy feed, we can choose unhealthy food. Like Eve and the serpent i.e. the CEO's are telling people the unhealthy food is "good". Today food i.e. cardio vascular disease is the leading cause of preventable death. Was Eve a real person? Yes she was. Still as a metaphor there is still a lesson in the story for all of us. For adults and children alike.

If I put a biscuit on the floor and tell my dog not to eat it, and he does. I'm at fault for putting temptation in front of an animal with a weak will.

You can't point the finger at Eve, it has to be pointed at your god. He put a tree, with a snake, to tempt a creature he had made with a weak will.

The lesson is, if you don't want something tempting taken, don't put it out there with a big flag on it saying "take me".

Blame the CEO's, like god they don't car about our well being.