If salvation was by deeds

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Being sealed with the Holy Spirit does not guarantee salvation my friend. The sons of disobedience grieve the Holy Spirit all the time. I’m John 15:1-10 is Jesus diminishing the power of the cross? Or how about Luke 13:6-9? Is Jesus again diminishing the power of the cross? Or how about Paul in 1 Colossians 22-23? Doing good works has nothing to do with atonement for sin it’s about abiding in Christ.

"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14). According to this passage, the seal of the Holy Spirit takes place at the point of salvation. It is a promise or guarantee of the Christian's future, eternal inheritance with Jesus Christ.

First, the Holy Spirit in the believer's life helps to guarantee he or she is a child of God. Romans 8:16 shares, "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God."

Second, the seal of the Holy Spirit serves as a mark that we truly belong to Christ. Romans 8:9-10 teaches, "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness." First Corinthians 6:19-20 also notes, "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."

 

[Soyeong]

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:39-43)

If salvation was by deeds, or including deeds, then what good deeds did this criminal do, and why is he in Heaven? Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone!!!

What we believe is expressed through how we choose to act, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is a dead and that he would show his faith by his works. Every example of saving faith listed in Hebrews 11 is also an example of people taking actions. However, someone can still believe something while being physically prevented from expressing it, such as with the thief on the cross. However, if your hands and feet aren't nailed to a cross, them you don't have that excuse.

If I were an expert in a trade and if I were to train someone in how to practice that trade as a free gift to them, the the training itself would be the content of my free gift and them participating in the training would not be doing any works to earn my gift, but it would nevertheless still require them to choose to do works. God's free gift of salvation is the same type of gift, so the fact that we do not earn our salvation by our works does not mean that our salvation does not require us to choose to do good works. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renonce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself the content of our salvation and participating in that training does nothing to earn the gift, but nevertheless still involves choosing to do good works. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so it is impossible to remove our need to choose to do good works from the concept of being saved from not doing good works. In Matthew 7:31-23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is his instructions for how to know Christ and a relationship with Christ is a salvation issue, though the goal of obeying God's law was never in order to earn our salvation.

 

[Kenny'sID]

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:39-43)

If salvation was by deeds, or including deeds, then what good deeds did this criminal do, and why is he in Heaven? Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone!!!

If some of you choose the easy way of not doing good as a Christian, that and where it gets you is entirely up to you. However, to use the crusufixion as means to justify your actions/inaction and in attempt to sway others into a false doctrine, is wrong.

Somone has already touched on the fact, that just as a death bed confession, there is no time for good works, and though some of you may not give our lord credit enough to have the good sense to know that, some of us do. We can't do good works or not do evil if we are dead, but that far from means we dont have to while we live, and can do them.

Yet some choose to twist that into working for them, and their easy way, false doctrine, salvation instead of leaving it at the simple truth it is.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14). According to this passage, the seal of the Holy Spirit takes place at the point of salvation. It is a promise or guarantee of the Christian's future, eternal inheritance with Jesus Christ.

First, the Holy Spirit in the believer's life helps to guarantee he or she is a child of God. Romans 8:16 shares, "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God."

Second, the seal of the Holy Spirit serves as a mark that we truly belong to Christ. Romans 8:9-10 teaches, "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness." First Corinthians 6:19-20 also notes, "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."

You have a bad translation my friend. The word is not guarantee. It’s more like a pledge or a down payment.


1. an earnest
a. money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the full amount will subsequently be paid


Strong’s Definitions:
Of Hebrew origin [ערבון H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.

 

[Soyeong]

This is for the few who believe that Christ + deeds lead to salvation. Hopefully at least one person reads this and goes like 'wait a minute, this thief has done 0 good deeds, I better check my Bible and read the Gospels and Acts' if at least one person does that, then my post was a success.

Where does the Bible state that the thief had done done 0 good deeds?

Deeds and works have nothing to do with salvation. You either have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you or you don't. God pouring His Spirit on you is based on nothing else that God's mercy, and God will pour His Spirit on whom He wants when He wants. That does not mean that after we are saved we do nothing, we do the opposite, we do the will of the Father. But if you trying to justify your salvation with anything but Christ, and you try to add deeds to it, then you diminish the power of cross and you say that Lamb of God was not worthy.

If our obedience to God's law were for God's good, then it would have been about trying to earn our salvation, however, it was given for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so our obedience is instead about putting our faith in God to rightly guide us, which is why Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). Only those who have faith in God to guide us will obey His law and will be justified by that same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we earn our justification by being a doer of the law.

"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14). According to this passage, the seal of the Holy Spirit takes place at the point of salvation. It is a promise or guarantee of the Christian's future, eternal inheritance with Jesus Christ.

God's law is truth (Psalms 119:142) and Jesus is the same truth (John 14:6). Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of salvation. In John 6:40, those who believe in Jesus will have eternal life, and in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to enter into eternal life, then obey the commandments, so obedience to the commandments is what it looks like to believe in Jesus.

First, the Holy Spirit in the believer's life helps to guarantee he or she is a child of God. Romans 8:16 shares, "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God."

Second, the seal of the Holy Spirit serves as a mark that we truly belong to Christ. Romans 8:9-10 teaches, "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness." First Corinthians 6:19-20 also notes, "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

What we believe is expressed through how we choose to act, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is a dead and that he would show his faith by his works. Every example of saving faith listed in Hebrews 11 is also an example of people taking actions. However, someone can still believe something while being physically prevented from expressing it, such as with the thief on the cross. However, if your hands and feet aren't nailed to a cross, them you don't have that excuse.

If I were an expert in a trade and if I were to train someone in how to practice that trade as a free gift to them, the the training itself would be the content of my free gift and them participating in the training would not be doing any works to earn my gift, but it would nevertheless still require them to choose to do works. God's free gift of salvation is the same type of gift, so the fact that we do not earn our salvation by our works does not mean that our salvation does not require us to choose to do good works. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renonce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself the content of our salvation and participating in that training does nothing to earn the gift, but nevertheless still involves choosing to do good works. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so it is impossible to remove our need to choose to do good works from the concept of being saved from not doing good works. In Matthew 7:31-23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is his instructions for how to know Christ and a relationship with Christ is a salvation issue, though the goal of obeying God's law was never in order to earn our salvation.

No where do I say that we Christians shouldn't do any good deeds. Once we receive Jesus and we are saved I did not say we do nothing on the contrary. We go out and spread the gospels (that includes telling people to repent), and we help people where possible. Once we are saved, we should do the will of the Father, but that is impossible unless God transforms us and initiates that we indeed do His will. That's why we ought to spend a lot of time in prayer. "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10). You wouldn't be able to do any of good deeds if God did not ordain them, because our nature is wicked.

Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone! If you trying to add deeds to Christ then you are saying that Christ was not worthy and that His blood alone isn't worthy to cover for all sins, and if that was the case, then the blood of Christ cannot cover for one single sin. Why are people trying to add their deeds to their cross, if it's the Holy Spirit who produces the Fruit of good works in us. John 15:1 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

When you die, and you go to God's judgement room, and He asks you why you should go to Heaven and you'll start talking about all the things you did you'll be cast away into lake of fire. Why? Because God is Holy and without sin and your sins have to be washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ, for which you have done absolutely nothing, you done nothing, what have you done for your salvation? Christ done it all. So if you want to go to Heaven by anything else other than the righteousness of Jesus Christ, then you'll be judged for your deeds which will be never worthy to cover even for one sin. You'll think you'll impress God with anything you do? You think you are better that the people who go to hell? People who go to hell are not worse than the people who go to heaven, they just never had faith and salvation of Jesus Christ. There will be people in hell that done more good deeds that you can possibly do. If a firefighter who not repented and went to hell, but risked his life every day for others, and saved dozens of people, your deeds will always be pale in comparison unless you risk your life to save even more people. And don't tell me you made someone turn and go to God, because only God can grab people and make Him closer to Him.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

If some of you choose the easy way of not doing good as a Christian, that and where it gets you is entirely up to you. However, to use the crusufixion as means to justify your actions/inaction and in attempt to sway others into a false doctrine, is wrong.

Somone has already touched on the fact, that just as a death bed confession, there is no time for good works, and though some of you may not give our lord credit enough to have the good sense to know that, some of us do. We can't do good works or not do evil if we are dead, but that far from means we dont have to while we live, and can do them.

Yet some choose to twist that into working for them, and their easy way, false doctrine, salvation instead of leaving it at the simple truth it is.

No where do I say that we Christians shouldn't do any good deeds. Once we receive Jesus and we are saved I did not say we do nothing on the contrary. We go out and spread the gospels (that includes telling people to repent), and we help people where possible. Once we are saved, we should do the will of the Father, but that is impossible unless God transforms us and initiates that we indeed do His will. That's why we ought to spend a lot of time in prayer. "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10). You wouldn't be able to do any of good deeds if God did not ordain them, because our nature is wicked.

Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone! If you trying to add deeds to Christ then you are saying that Christ was not worthy and that His blood alone isn't worthy to cover for all sins, and if that was the case, then the blood of Christ cannot cover for one single sin. Why are people trying to add their deeds to their cross, if it's the Holy Spirit who produces the Fruit of good works in us. John 15:1 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

When you die, and you go to God's judgement room, and He asks you why you should go to Heaven and you'll start talking about all the things you did you'll be cast away into lake of fire. Why? Because God is Holy and without sin and your sins have to be washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ, for which you have done absolutely nothing, you done nothing, what have you done for your salvation? Christ done it all. So if you want to go to Heaven by anything else other than the righteousness of Jesus Christ, then you'll be judged for your deeds which will be never worthy to cover even for one sin. You'll think you'll impress God with anything you do? You think you are better that the people who go to hell? People who go to hell are not worse than the people who go to heaven, they just never had faith and salvation of Jesus Christ. There will be people in hell that done more good deeds that you can possibly do. If a firefighter who not repented and went to hell, but risked his life every day for others, and saved dozens of people, your deeds will always be pale in comparison unless you risk your life to save even more people. And don't tell me you made someone turn and go to God, because only God can grab people and make Him closer to Him.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

You have a bad translation my friend. The word is not guarantee. It’s more like a pledge or a down payment.


1. an earnest
a. money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the full amount will subsequently be paid


Strong’s Definitions:
Of Hebrew origin [ערבון H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.

I cannot believe there's someone suggesting that being sealed by the Holy Spirit does not guarantee salvation. The one and only thing that guarantees salvation is to be born of the Spirit, for which man can do nothing. Only God can pour His Spirit in His grace on you.

By the way the original Greek text of Ephesians 1:13 ἐν ᾧ καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀκούσαντες τὸν λόγον τῆς ἀληθείας τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τῆς σωτηρίας ὑμῶν ἐν ᾧ καὶ πιστεύσαντες ἐσφραγίσθητε τῷ Πνεύματι τῆς ἐπαγγελίας τῷ Ἁγίῳ. The word ἐσφραγίσθητε means 'you were sealed' and comes from the word σφραγίζω.
Definition:
to seal, stamp with a seal, Mt. 27:66; Rev. 20:3; to seal up, to close up, conceal, Rev. 10:4; 22:10; to set a mark upon, distinguish by a mark, Eph. 1:13; 4:30; Rev. 7:3, 4, 5, 8; to seal, to mark distinctively as invested with a certain character, Jn. 6:27; mid. to set one's own mark upon, seal as one's own, to impress with a mark of acceptance, 2 Cor. 1:22; to deliver over safely to someone, Rom. 15:28; absol. to set to one's seal, to make a solemn declaration, Jn. 3:33*
Now once you are sealed by God, who's going to break this seal?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Where does the Bible state that the thief had done done 0 good deeds?

I am talking about the deeds the thief has done after he repented and called Jesus his Lord. By the way no matter how many good deeds you do, they all won't be able to pay for even one sin.

so obedience to the commandments is what it looks like to believe in Jesus.

So do you obey Jesus' commandments 100%? Have you obeyed God all your life? You cannot sin even once. Did you love Jesus with everything you have? Did you always tell the truth? Did you always obey your parents? Did you always forgive? None of us is able to fulfil the Law, God said it Himself. Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone. You done absolutely nothing for you salvation. If you said salvation is through Christ and deeds then you call Jesus not worthy. Only Jesus can save you and nothing else. I do not say once we are saved we sit on our ass and we do nothing, we go out preach the gospel, preach repentance, we help where we can, we do the will of the Father (which God has to initiate for us starting doing and we have to have the Holy Spirit in us). 'On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ ( Matthew 7:22-23) There will be people who do far more good deeds (risk their lives to safe others, even lose them for others) and still go to hell.

 

[klutedavid]

2) remember me, Jesus, when you come into that kingdom you talk about. Is that a profession of Faith in Jesus as God in the flesh and Savior of the world?

Jesus at the time on the cross had not yet given His life. Nor had Jesus risen from the tomb.

So theoretically, the revelation of the Christ as savior of the world was still a future event. Like Abraham the thief was rather reckoned righteous, for trusting in the promise of God.

 

[Albion]

Jesus at the time on the cross had not yet given His life. Nor had Jesus risen from the tomb.

So theoretically, the revelation of the Christ as savior of the world was still a future event. Like Abraham the thief was rather reckoned righteous, for trusting in the promise of God.

I don't agree. However, I am personally undecided whether or not we can say that the conversation between Christ and the good thief indicates that the thief was saved.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I cannot believe there's someone suggesting that being sealed by the Holy Spirit does not guarantee salvation. The one and only thing that guarantees salvation is to be born of the Spirit, for which man can do nothing. Only God can pour His Spirit in His grace on you.

By the way the original Greek text of Ephesians 1:13 ἐν ᾧ καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀκούσαντες τὸν λόγον τῆς ἀληθείας τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τῆς σωτηρίας ὑμῶν ἐν ᾧ καὶ πιστεύσαντες ἐσφραγίσθητε τῷ Πνεύματι τῆς ἐπαγγελίας τῷ Ἁγίῳ. The word ἐσφραγίσθητε means 'you were sealed' and comes from the word σφραγίζω.
Definition:
to seal, stamp with a seal, Mt. 27:66; Rev. 20:3; to seal up, to close up, conceal, Rev. 10:4; 22:10; to set a mark upon, distinguish by a mark, Eph. 1:13; 4:30; Rev. 7:3, 4, 5, 8; to seal, to mark distinctively as invested with a certain character, Jn. 6:27; mid. to set one's own mark upon, seal as one's own, to impress with a mark of acceptance, 2 Cor. 1:22; to deliver over safely to someone, Rom. 15:28; absol. to set to one's seal, to make a solemn declaration, Jn. 3:33*
Now once you are sealed by God, who's going to break this seal?

Yeah he uses the same word in Ephesians 4:30. Is Paul saying we are sealed with the Holy Spirit so we can grieve Him all we want and we are still saved or is he saying that those who continue to grieve the Holy Spirit are the sons of disobedience who will receive the wrath of God? I would suggest starting at Ephesians 4:17-30 then continuing into chapter 5 Ephesians 5:1-21. Paul’s message here is that we must not continue to grieve the Holy Spirit whom which we are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[Kenny'sID]

No where do I say that we Christians shouldn't do any good deeds.

Is doing good necessary for salvation?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I cannot believe there's someone suggesting that being sealed by the Holy Spirit does not guarantee salvation. The one and only thing that guarantees salvation is to be born of the Spirit, for which man can do nothing. Only God can pour His Spirit in His grace on you.

By the way the original Greek text of Ephesians 1:13 ἐν ᾧ καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀκούσαντες τὸν λόγον τῆς ἀληθείας τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τῆς σωτηρίας ὑμῶν ἐν ᾧ καὶ πιστεύσαντες ἐσφραγίσθητε τῷ Πνεύματι τῆς ἐπαγγελίας τῷ Ἁγίῳ. The word ἐσφραγίσθητε means 'you were sealed' and comes from the word σφραγίζω.
Definition:
to seal, stamp with a seal, Mt. 27:66; Rev. 20:3; to seal up, to close up, conceal, Rev. 10:4; 22:10; to set a mark upon, distinguish by a mark, Eph. 1:13; 4:30; Rev. 7:3, 4, 5, 8; to seal, to mark distinctively as invested with a certain character, Jn. 6:27; mid. to set one's own mark upon, seal as one's own, to impress with a mark of acceptance, 2 Cor. 1:22; to deliver over safely to someone, Rom. 15:28; absol. to set to one's seal, to make a solemn declaration, Jn. 3:33*
Now once you are sealed by God, who's going to break this seal?

What are your thoughts on Galatians 5:4 or John 15:6 or 2 Timothy 2:12?

 

[JulieB67]

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God.

Exactly!

Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone!

This is true but your faith will naturally produce "works/fruit". If not, than one has not come to true repentance/ sanctification. This can also take time as we mature as Christians and grow in his Word. This seems to be a hard issue for some to grasp.

Some also on this board seem to be implying you can become "saved" and put self before God their entire life and still be saved.

 

[Soyeong]

I am talking about the deeds the thief has done after he repented and called Jesus his Lord. By the way no matter how many good deeds you do, they all won't be able to pay for even one sin.

The reason why we should do good deeds in obedience to God was never in order to pay for our sin.

So do you obey Jesus' commandments 100%? Have you obeyed God all your life? You cannot sin even once. Did you love Jesus with everything you have? Did you always tell the truth? Did you always obey your parents? Did you always forgive? None of us is able to fulfil the Law, God said it Himself. Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone. You done absolutely nothing for you salvation. If you said salvation is through Christ and deeds then you call Jesus not worthy. Only Jesus can save you and nothing else. I do not say once we are saved we sit on our ass and we do nothing, we go out preach the gospel, preach repentance, we help where we can, we do the will of the Father (which God has to initiate for us starting doing and we have to have the Holy Spirit in us). 'On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ ( Matthew 7:22-23) There will be people who do far more good deeds (risk their lives to safe others, even lose them for others) and still go to hell.

If it were true for some strange reason that we can't even once, then repentance would have no value, but repentance has value, that it is not true that we can't sin even once. In Galatians 5:14, loving our neighbor fulfills the entire law, so Jesus was one of countless people who have done that, though he was the only one who was without sin. Nowhere did God say that none of us are able to fulfill the law. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what salvation through Christ alone looks like.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do, so while there is nothing that we can do to earn our salvation, our salvation from choosing to live in disobedience to God's law necessarily involves choosing to live in obedience to it. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is what it looks like to believe that only Jesus can save us and nothing else (Acts 21:20). Titus 2:11-14 notably does not say that once we are saved, then we will be trained by grace to obey God's law, but rather it describes our salvation as being trained by grace to obey it. In regard to Matthew 7:21-23, God straightforwardly has made His will known through His law (Psalms 40:8) and Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is His instructions for how to know Christ and obedience to it is absolutely a salvation issue, though not for the purpose of earning our salvation.

 

[Soyeong]

No where do I say that we Christians shouldn't do any good deeds. Once we receive Jesus and we are saved I did not say we do nothing on the contrary. We go out and spread the gospels (that includes telling people to repent), and we help people where possible. Once we are saved, we should do the will of the Father, but that is impossible unless God transforms us and initiates that we indeed do His will. That's why we ought to spend a lot of time in prayer. "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10). You wouldn't be able to do any of good deeds if God did not ordain them, because our nature is wicked.

Again, Titus 2:11-14, does not say once we are saved, then we will do God's will, but describes our essentially salvation as being trained by grace to do God's will.

Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone! If you trying to add deeds to Christ then you are saying that Christ was not worthy and that His blood alone isn't worthy to cover for all sins, and if that was the case, then the blood of Christ cannot cover for one single sin. Why are people trying to add their deeds to their cross, if it's the Holy Spirit who produces the Fruit of good works in us. John 15:1 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Following God's instructions for how to do what is godly is what it looks like for Christ to save us from doing what is ungodly. It is not about trying to add our deeds to what Christ did for us, but rather it is acting in accordance with what Christ did for us.

When you die, and you go to God's judgement room, and He asks you why you should go to Heaven and you'll start talking about all the things you did you'll be cast away into lake of fire. Why? Because God is Holy and without sin and your sins have to be washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ, for which you have done absolutely nothing, you done nothing, what have you done for your salvation? Christ done it all. So if you want to go to Heaven by anything else other than the righteousness of Jesus Christ, then you'll be judged for your deeds which will be never worthy to cover even for one sin. You'll think you'll impress God with anything you do? You think you are better that the people who go to hell? People who go to hell are not worse than the people who go to heaven, they just never had faith and salvation of Jesus Christ. There will be people in hell that done more good deeds that you can possibly do. If a firefighter who not repented and went to hell, but risked his life every day for others, and saved dozens of people, your deeds will always be pale in comparison unless you risk your life to save even more people. And don't tell me you made someone turn and go to God, because only God can grab people and make Him closer to Him.

The for why God commanded His people to do good deeds was never in order to provide the means of earning favor with Him or the means of impressing Him or to prove that we are better than others. God's law straightforwardly does what it was given to do and does not do what it was not given to do, so things that were said against needing to obey it for the wrong reasons should not be misunderstood as being against needing to obey it for the right reasons. God's law was given as instructions for how to have a relationship with Him and our relationship with God is a salvation issue.

 

[5thKingdom]

If salvation was by deeds, or including deeds, then what good deeds did this criminal do, and why is he in Heaven? Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone!!!

The Bible is very clear that any REAL repentance, including
any "good deed" is the RESULT of regeneration and not the CAUSE.
To preach otherwise is to teach a "works gospel" or the heresy of
a "boaster's gospel".


Unfortunately this heresy of synergism is the BROAD WAY
that leads MANY "Christians" into destruction, while the Truth
of a monergistic Gospel is the narrow way that FEW Christians find.


Jesus was very clear that regeneration produces "fruit" in the elect,
some thirty-fold, others sixty-fold and some one hundred-fold...
so good works are the "fruit" of sanctification, never the cause.


I find it amazing that "Christians" still argue about this doctrine.
But the argument is ALWAYS from someone teaching the heresy
of a synergistic gospel. Those preaching the Truth of a monergistic
Gospel (of Grace alone), do not argue that salvation is of works...
but is only of Him that chooses who He will "elect" to eternal life.


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

The thief acknowledged his sins and his guilt, repented and asked forgiveness and acknowledged Christ as Lord by recognizing Christ’s kingdom. I don’t believe these works are what was taken into consideration but instead the motivation for these works.

So you think the "motivation" of the thief to ask for mercy
has NOTHING to do with him being "chosen" or "elected" before
the beginning of the world to be PART of "His sheep"...
it was just a spontaneous "work" of man
in that moment of time?


Jim

 

[Kris Jordan]

To understand the purpose of good works or obedience to God in Scripture, one must first accept that all Scripture is God-breathed, authored by an all-knowing and perfect God. As such, the doctrines taught in the Bible are coherent and consistent, fitting together within a logical framework. They are not contradictory, nor is God. Therefore, correctly understood verses will never contradict correctly understood verses.

Believing that salvation requires good works is the result of combining verses about good works or obedience with those on salvation (which cite faith as the means for obtaining it) and concluding that the “full picture” of God’s intent and plan for salvation necessitates both faith and works (or obedience). The problem with this conclusion and belief is that adding good works or acts of obedience as conditions for salvation not only modifies the plain meaning of numerous salvation-by-faith passages but completely contradicts it.

Specifically, in the second chapter of Ephesians, God unequivocally states through Paul that salvation is not the result of works (Ephesians 2:9). The original Greek word for works denotes a deed, an act, effort, labor, or toil. Therefore, salvation cannot be “by grace through faith and not of works – but also of works.” Instead, it is exclusively received by faith alone without any works required, including acts of obedience.

Also, God does not save individuals through varying means nor make “exceptions to the rule” when forgiving and justifying sinners. He redeems every person alike when they trust solely in His gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Examples of this fact are the thief on the cross (Luke 23:42-43) and Cornelius and his relatives (Acts 10:44-47). These individuals were not required to do good works for their salvation, nor were their salvations special circumstances or exceptions. They are biblical examples demonstrating the truth of Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 3:21-26, Romans 5:1-2, and others, which confirm the only requirement for salvation is faith.