If salvation was by deeds

[Ivan Hlavanda]

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:39-43)

If salvation was by deeds, or including deeds, then what good deeds did this criminal do, and why is he in Heaven? Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone!!!

 

[Neostarwcc]

Then the greatest followers of Christ would have something to boast about while the least followers of Christ would have nothing. If salvation were by works than where would be God's glory? Why would we worship revere and fall down at his very presence? Why would we love God if we attained Heaven by our own merit?

Even the Apostles or King David literally the most blessed King by God, has no reason to boast before God. All of us will be bowing at his feet and thanking him for his mercy.

 

[Hmm]

I imagine Jesus took into account the fact that he was nailed to a cross at the time so his opportunities for doing good deeds was somewhat restricted. A comparable situation would be someone who is completely paralysed and in constant pain. It doesn't necessarily mean that good deeds are not expected of us.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

I imagine Jesus took into account the fact that he was nailed to a cross at the time so his opportunities for doing good deeds was somewhat restricted. A comparable situation would be someone who is completely paralysed and in constant pain. It doesn't necessarily mean that good deeds are not expected of us.

I am not saying that we should not do good deeds, of course we should. The Holy Spirit dwelling in us will be producing the fruit of love, in accordance to how much fruit God wants to produce in us. That is not the point I was making however

 

[Hmm]

I am not saying that we should not do good deeds, of course we should. The Holy Spirit dwelling in us will be producing the fruit of love, in accordance to how much fruit God wants to produce in us. That is not the point I was making however

Fair enough.

 

[Albion]

If salvation was by deeds, or including deeds, then what good deeds did this criminal do, and why is he in Heaven? Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone!!!

Very few Christians believe that salvation is by deeds. The idea that you may be thinking of is that salvation is by deeds AND FAITH. And Protestant Christianity in general rejects that belief in favor of FAITH ALONE. So the question is whether the "good thief" had Faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. I don't see anything like that in the passage.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Very few Christians believe that salvation is by deeds. The idea that you may be thinking of is that salvation is by deeds AND FAITH. So the question is whether the "good thief" had Faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. I don't see anything like that in the passage.

If salvation was by deeds and faith, why is that thief in Paradise? What did the thief do? He feared God, repented, called Jesus the Lord, and asked Him to remember his in paradise.

'The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God' (Romans 8:16)

 

[Neostarwcc]

If salvation was by deeds and faith, why is that thief in Paradise? What did the thief do? He feared God, repented, called Jesus the Lord, and asked Him to remember his in paradise.

'The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God' (Romans 8:16)

Exactly. I dont think you'll find too many Christians here who will disagree with you.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Exactly. I dont think you'll find too many Christians here who will disagree with you.

This is for the few who believe that Christ + deeds lead to salvation. Hopefully at least one person reads this and goes like 'wait a minute, this thief has done 0 good deeds, I better check my Bible and read the Gospels and Acts' if at least one person does that, then my post was a success.

 

[Albion]

If salvation was by deeds and faith, why is that thief in Paradise?

Paradise isn't heaven. It's what is otherwise called "Abraham's Bosom."

Abraham's Bosom Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

Christ appears to be saying that both of them will, that day, pass into the world of spirits, not that he is assuring the thief that he has been saved.

What did the thief do? He feared God, repented, called Jesus the Lord, and asked Him to remember his in paradise.

Some people want to see it that way, but what the good thief said was twofold: 1) to the other thief, stop ragging on this man (Christ). You deserve what you are getting but he hasn't done anything wrong. and 2) remember me, Jesus, when you come into that kingdom you talk about. Is that a profession of Faith in Jesus as God in the flesh and Savior of the world?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Paradise isn't heaven. It's what is otherwise called "Abraham's Bosom."

Abraham's Bosom Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

Christ appears to be saying that both of them will, that day, pass into the world of spirits, not that he is assuring the thief that he has been saved.


Some people want to see it that way, but what the good thief said was twofold: 1) to the other thief, stop ragging on this man (Christ). You deserve what you are getting but he hasn't done anything wrong. and 2) remember me, Jesus, when you come into that kingdom you talk about. Is that a profession of Faith in Jesus as God in the flesh and Savior of the world?

Revelation 2:7 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

The only real difference that I could find between heaven and Paradise is the use of the word. Both describe the presence of God. Both describe a utopian state. Both describe the absence of sorrow, suffering and sin. All of the Old Testament saints will be there along with those who are now departed and with the Lord. We could describe Paradise and hell or hades as temporary holding places until the New Jerusalem is established and the dead are joined back with their physical bodies. For those who have died in the faith, we know that they are present with the Lord right now because if a person is absent or deceased from their body, they are in the presence of the Lord (2 Cor 5:8). Of this fact, Paul was confident and since God’s Word is without error, we know that anyone that has repented and trusted in Christ will be with the Lord after they breathe their last breath on this earth.

'Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom' if this isn't prove that the thief acknowledged Jesus as God then I don't know what is.

That being said, Jesus blood is enough to satisfy for our sins, if you add anything to it, then you are saying that Jesus wasn't worthy enough and you diminish the power of cross.

 

[Albion]

The only real difference that I could find between heaven and Paradise is the use of the word. Both describe the presence of God. Both describe a utopian state.

All of the Old Testament saints will be there along with those who are now departed and with the Lord. We could describe Paradise and hell or hades as temporary holding places until the New Jerusalem is established and the dead are joined back with their physical bodies.

Well, that's an unconventional view of the afterlife, but in any case we still need to recognize that Christ's reply to the thief was not that they would both be in heaven that day. Also, please read the link that I included.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Well, that's an unconventional view of the afterlife, but in any case we still need to recognize that Christ's reply to the thief was not that they would both be in heaven that day. Also, please read the link that I included.

Yes I read it, and I also read the Bible. Even if paradise was a place the saved go before Heaven, they definitely not going to Hades, because people who go to Hades will be also resurrected, judged and then they are cast away to lake of fire.

 

[Albion]

Yes I read it, and I also read the Bible. Even if paradise was a place the saved go before Heaven, they definitely not going to Hades

Well, we weren't talking about Hades.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Well, we weren't talking about Hades.

I think you are completely missing the point I am making. The thief went to paradise without making any good deeds.

 

[Albion]

I think you are completely missing the point I am making. The thief went to paradise without making any good deeds.

This link comes closer to explaining what I was asking you to consider.

The Meaning of “Paradise” in the Bible

It's not so much that I wanted you to conclude that the thief was not saved as that it isn't certain from what we find in that particular exchange of words between the two thieves and Christ on Calvary.

 

[BNR32FAN]

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:39-43)

If salvation was by deeds, or including deeds, then what good deeds did this criminal do, and why is he in Heaven? Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone!!!

The thief acknowledged his sins and his guilt, repented and asked forgiveness and acknowledged Christ as Lord by recognizing Christ’s kingdom. I don’t believe these works are what was taken into consideration but instead the motivation for these works.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

This link comes closer to explaining what I was asking you to consider.

The Meaning of “Paradise” in the Bible

It's not so much that I wanted you to conclude that the thief was not saved as that it isn't certain from what we find in that particular exchange of words between the two thieves and Christ on Calvary.

Everyone who is in paradise is saved!

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

The thief acknowledged his sins and his guilt, repented and asked forgiveness and acknowledged Christ as Lord by recognizing Christ’s kingdom. I don’t believe these works are what was taken into consideration but instead the motivation for these works.

Deeds and works have nothing to do with salvation. You either have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you or you don't. God pouring His Spirit on you is based on nothing else that God's mercy, and God will pour His Spirit on whom He wants when He wants. That does not mean that after we are saved we do nothing, we do the opposite, we do the will of the Father. But if you trying to justify your salvation with anything but Christ, and you try to add deeds to it, then you diminish the power of cross and you say that Lamb of God was not worthy.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Deeds and works have nothing to do with salvation. You either have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you or you don't. God pouring His Spirit on you is based on nothing else that God's mercy, and God will pour His Spirit on whom He wants when He wants. That does not mean that after we are saved we do nothing, we do the opposite, we do the will of the Father. But if you trying to justify your salvation with anything but Christ, and you try to add deeds to it, then you diminish the power of cross and you say that Lamb of God was not worthy.

Being sealed with the Holy Spirit does not guarantee salvation my friend. The sons of disobedience grieve the Holy Spirit all the time. I’m John 15:1-10 is Jesus diminishing the power of the cross? Or how about Luke 13:6-9? Is Jesus again diminishing the power of the cross? Or how about Paul in 1 Colossians 22-23? Doing good works has nothing to do with atonement for sin it’s about abiding in Christ.