If Jesus is God, can these verses be true?
- Thread starter edpobre
- Start date
- Status
- Mar 24, 2002
- 12,088
- 624
- 74
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
The Trinity is essential Christian doctrine. Without the Trinity Jesus is a liar. Without the Trinity the Bible contains 3 gods which is a contradiction. Without the Trinity the Bible is flawed. So, the Trinity is essential Biblical doctrine.
On the subject of John 1:14: The direct Greek to English translation would read "And the word flesh became and tented in us" We could use logos to replace word as it is actually a better word than "word" and closer to making things clear. Logos is a word that, in one sense, means "the idea" or "design" or the "intent". With that in mind you can see John 1:1 as an actual account of "before the beginning" which is also stated in several ways in the NT. God had the idea, was the idea and became one of us (tented in us). Not with us but "in" us, so you can see the idea of creation; and a God that was fully God, fully man, fully Spirit.
Blessings
On the subject of John 1:14: The direct Greek to English translation would read "And the word flesh became and tented in us" We could use logos to replace word as it is actually a better word than "word" and closer to making things clear. Logos is a word that, in one sense, means "the idea" or "design" or the "intent". With that in mind you can see John 1:1 as an actual account of "before the beginning" which is also stated in several ways in the NT. God had the idea, was the idea and became one of us (tented in us). Not with us but "in" us, so you can see the idea of creation; and a God that was fully God, fully man, fully Spirit.
Blessings
Upvote
0
After thinking about diving into this i read the first page of this thread and reminded myself that it just isn't worth my time.
Upvote
0
LouisBooth
Well-Known Member
"But seriously, the concept of the trinity just doesn't make sense. "
YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT. It ranks right up there with agape love. In human eyes, it doesn't make sence at all, but then again, its not supposed ...we aren't God.
Ed, sorry, I"m not going to answer you anymore, its a fruitless discussion because you're set in your ways and I'm hoping God will change you because you're on the wrong path
YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT. It ranks right up there with agape love. In human eyes, it doesn't make sence at all, but then again, its not supposed ...we aren't God.
Ed, sorry, I"m not going to answer you anymore, its a fruitless discussion because you're set in your ways and I'm hoping God will change you because you're on the wrong path
Upvote
0
Apologist
2 Tim. 2:24-26
Originally posted by LouisBooth
"But seriously, the concept of the trinity just doesn't make sense. "
YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT. It ranks right up there with agape love. In human eyes, it doesn't make sence at all, but then again, its not supposed ...we aren't God.
Ed, sorry, I"m not going to answer you anymore, its a fruitless discussion because you're set in your ways and I'm hoping God will change you because you're on the wrong path
How true LouisBooth.
It's funny how people can believe in God's Omniscience, Omnipresense, and Omnipotence, not to mention His eternal being of never having a beginning or an ending and yet the trinity "doesn't make sense." Isaiah 55:8 says it all:
For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways, says the Lord.
God Bless
Upvote
0
Thunderchild
Sheep in Wolf's clothing
With regard to the passage at John 1:14
"and made his tent among (en) us". The word "en" can be variously translated as "on", "in", "with", or "by" - without a preference. For most purposes the English "per" best translates the concept of "en" (though perhaps not on this occasion.) "In" or "on" used for the translation of this passage would be incorrect - either would inevitably result in the concept that "The word became flesh and dwelt within our persons." - which the passage does NOT infer - if "in" was used to translate "en", it would force, to retain the original meaning, "hemin" (us) to be rendered as "our company."
The English concept of the Greek "Logos" can easily be demonstrated by the use of the word "logos" in a "company's logo."
"and made his tent among (en) us". The word "en" can be variously translated as "on", "in", "with", or "by" - without a preference. For most purposes the English "per" best translates the concept of "en" (though perhaps not on this occasion.) "In" or "on" used for the translation of this passage would be incorrect - either would inevitably result in the concept that "The word became flesh and dwelt within our persons." - which the passage does NOT infer - if "in" was used to translate "en", it would force, to retain the original meaning, "hemin" (us) to be rendered as "our company."
The English concept of the Greek "Logos" can easily be demonstrated by the use of the word "logos" in a "company's logo."
Upvote
0
LouisBooth
Well-Known Member
regardless of how it is translated, the first chapter of John declares Christ's diety
Upvote
0
LouisBooth
Well-Known Member
You are? Well stop and go read chapter one of John and you will see that is says Christ is God.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Thunderchild
Sheep in Wolf's clothing
Yes, among other passages, John chapter one incontrovertibly states that Jesus originated as God. And given the number of authors who make the claim, no doubt can reasonably be entertained regarding the scriptural authority of the passage.
Upvote
0
Apologist,
GOD is the single English word that describes the ONE who created the hevens and the earth and everything that is in them.
MAN is the single English word that describes the ONE that God CREATED on the sixth day (Gen. 1:27).
ANGELS are MESSENGERS of God and they are either SPIRITS who deliver short messages or humans who deliver long messages.
Jesus is a MAN (John 8:40). That means God CREATED him. Jesus identifies the FATHER as the ONLY true God (John 17:3). Therefore, the FATHER is the ONLY ONE God who CREATED Jesus, the MAN.
Ed
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
LouisBooth
Well-Known Member
"Can you show me a passage in the scriptures that show Jesus as the WORD of God BEFORE John 1:1 and the entire New Testament was written?
"
Sure..try Pslams 2 to start, we can go from there.
"
Sure..try Pslams 2 to start, we can go from there.
Upvote
0
LouisBooth,
You must be dreaming! There is NOTHING in Psalm 2 that even hints of Jesus as the word of God.
Honestly, my friend. If you were a Israelite who lived 200 years BEFORE Christ was born and you were reading Psalm 2, would you have imagined that the one speaking is another God or a PART of the God he was referring to?
Ed
Upvote
0
LouisBooth
Well-Known Member
"You must be dreaming! There is NOTHING in Psalm 2 that even hints of Jesus as the word of God.
"
*sigh* I never said there was. It explains his title "Son of God" I wanted you to read it because you among a few other people for the life of you, can't understand what the title means. Do you now see it as a title of authority or should you go back and read it again? Ed, to answer your question, have you ever heard of this word...prophasy (may be spelled wrong..hehehe).
"
*sigh* I never said there was. It explains his title "Son of God" I wanted you to read it because you among a few other people for the life of you, can't understand what the title means. Do you now see it as a title of authority or should you go back and read it again? Ed, to answer your question, have you ever heard of this word...prophasy (may be spelled wrong..hehehe).
Upvote
0
LouisBooth,
I asked Thunderchild to show me a verse in the Old Testament which shows that Jesus was the WORD of God BEFORE he was born and BEFORE the New Testament was written.
You butted in and in post #236 you cited Psalm 2. In post #237 I told you that there is nothing in Psalm 2 which even hints of Jesus as the word of God.
Now you are denying you ever said there was and try to divert the question to another issue. Why can't you just say outright that Jesus was NEVER the WORD of God BEFORE he was born?
If you have any evidence to support your belief that Jesus was indeed the WORD of God BEFORE he was born, please show us instead of employing the squid tactic of diverting the issue to another.
Ed
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
LouisBooth
Well-Known Member
Ed, did you miss the words "start from there" it indicates that it was not a FULL journey yet. Now, would you like me to go on?
Now, would you like me to go on?
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
