If I have the Respect of every Creature, I have the respect of Evolution?

[VirOptimus]

I tried explaining my "reasoning", but you won't accept it, so...?

Order, design, whatever, everything being determined and pre-determined by an intelligence, which is what the "evidence" is telling us, etc, or at the very least that "determinism" is true, etc, IMO, there having to be intelligence behind it, that made and/or designed it, set it all in motion, knows/knew it all fully, from the very beginning to it's very ending, etc, etc, etc, but you won't accept it, and even say it's "invalid", etc, so I don't know what else to say, etc...

Anyhow,

God Bless!

What you fail to grasp is that this is something philosophy and theology have studied for a long time. You ignorant posts just show that you are woefully uneducated in theese fields.

As you dont understand the basics there really us no point in engaging you.

 

[Neogaia777]

What you fail to grasp is that this is something philosophy and theology have studied for a long time. You ignorant posts just show that you are woefully uneducated in theese fields.

As you dont understand the basics there really us no point in engaging you.

Yes, Yes, I may have a very simple and general understanding of it, granted, but that in no way makes it wrong or less valid or untrue, etc...

Many people believers and unbelievers are coming to see determinism as the truth, they can't help it when they look at things both very large and very small, etc, that this was present before that, etc, which caused and or causes and/or "determined" this or that that they are observing, etc, and then prior pre-existing things things before that led to this or that, etc, things before that, to stuff after or before this or that, leading to this or that, etc, so on and so forth going all the way back to the beginning possibly, etc, and they cannot help seeing that, etc...

And if that is true, then it's all running like a program, or all is operating like a machine, etc, and they cannot help but see that, etc, even though many would want to deny it etc, because of the implications of that, etc, that it may imply an intelligence from the beginning of that or all of that, etc...

Einstein believed it I think, now are you calling him and "idiot" basically...?

He believed in a "God-like being", and that, mostly due to what he finding out and or observing, etc...

Anyway, call me all the names you want, or think I'm stupid if you want, cause that in no way makes what I see any less valid and/or untrue or not true, etc...

Many see the same thing I see, etc, believers and non-believers alike, now are they all wrong or stupid or are their views not valid or untrue, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

What you fail to grasp is that this is something philosophy and theology have studied for a long time. You ignorant posts just show that you are woefully uneducated in theese fields.

As you dont understand the basics there really us no point in engaging you.

Yes, Yes, I may have a very simple and general understanding of it, granted, but that in no way makes it wrong or less valid or untrue, etc...

Many people believers and unbelievers are coming to see determinism as the truth, they can't help it when they look at things both very large and very small, etc, that this was present before that, etc, which caused and or causes and/or "determined" this or that that they are observing, etc, and then prior pre-existing things things before that led to this or that, etc, things before that, to stuff after or before this or that, leading to this or that, etc, so on and so forth going all the way back to the beginning possibly, etc, and they cannot help seeing that, etc...

And if that is true, then it's all running like a program, or all is operating like a machine, etc, and they cannot help but see that, etc, even though many would want to deny it etc, because of the implications of that, etc, that it may imply an intelligence from the beginning of that or all of that, etc...

Einstein believed it I think, now are you calling him and "idiot" basically...?

He believed in a "God-like being", and that, mostly due to what he finding out and or observing, etc...

Anyway, call me all the names you want, or think I'm stupid if you want, cause that in no way makes what I see any less valid and/or untrue or not true, etc...

Many see the same thing I see, etc, believers and non-believers alike, now are they all wrong or stupid or are their views not valid or untrue, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

It does not take a "genius" to understand this, as it was never meant to, etc, merely a just a very general understanding of the facts and evidence with an "open mind", etc...

If determinism is true, then who or what determined it, etc....?

Anyway,

Anyway, I guess I don't expect "closed minds" to understand, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

What you fail to grasp is that this is something philosophy and theology have studied for a long time. You ignorant posts just show that you are woefully uneducated in theese fields.

As you dont understand the basics there really us no point in engaging you.

I don't see myself as the one or ones not understanding the basics, etc...?

If anything the "basics" are something I actually do have a very firm grip and/or understanding on or about, if anything, etc...

And your saying that, or trying to insult/discredit me like you are, etc, just shows or proves to me, how very desperate you are either being and/or becoming in trying to discredit me (since you can't seem to disprove me, etc) anyway, since you can't do that, are resorting to trying to discredit me or what I have been saying or my point of view, etc...

It seems an act of the desperate to me...

That I am "not alone" in by any means BTW, etc... Suppose were all wrong though, right...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

I don't see myself as the one or ones not understanding the basics, etc...?

If anything the "basics" are something I actually do have a very firm grip and/or understanding on or about, if anything, etc...

And your saying that, or trying to insult/discredit me like you are, etc, just shows or proves to me, how very desperate you are either being and/or becoming in trying to discredit me (since you can't seem to disprove me, etc) anyway, since you can't do that, are resorting to trying to discredit me or what I have been saying or my point of view, etc...

It seems an act of the desperate to me...

That I am "not alone" in by any means BTW, etc... Suppose were all wrong though, right...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

Heh, your posts is there for all to see.

The truly ignorant selfom understand their ignorance. I do suggest a philosophy 101 though.

 

[Neogaia777]

Heh, your posts is there for all to see.

That's right, they are...

The truly ignorant selfom understand their ignorance.

Right back at you friend...

I do suggest a philosophy 101 though.

I did take philosophy in college you know, for all the good it did me though, just seemed like a bunch of very confused individuals to me... I still have philosophy books I look at from time to time, etc... But, like I said, most of them just seem very confused a lot of time to me, etc... But I did glean what I could from them, etc, which wasn't very much to tell you the truth, etc...

Why don't you just even try to address some of my points, just one, instead of insults, etc, it just makes you look desperate (among other things, ect)... about "determinism", etc, there possibly being an intelligence involved and/or behind it, etc...

Look, Let's just try this one, just this one thing OK...?

Do you think "determinism" is true, or is the truth, yes or no...?

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

That's right, they are...



Right back at you friend...



I did take philosophy in college you know, for all the good it did me though, just seemed like a bunch of very confused individuals to me... I still have philosophy books I look at from time to time, etc... But, like I said, most of them just seem very confused a lot of time to me, etc... But I did glean what I could from them, etc, which wasn't very much to tell you the truth, etc...

Why don't you just even try to address some of my points, just one, instead of insults, etc, it just makes you look desperate (among other things, ect)... about "determinism", etc, there possibly being an intelligence involved and/or behind it, etc...

Look, Let's just try this one, just this one thing OK...?

Do you think "determinism" is true, or is the truth, yes or no...?

God Bless!

As I deny the existance of metaphysics I find the concept of determinism not applicable to reality at all.

Also, ”truth” is a very dicey concept.

But all of your posts is in the wrong forum, they have nothing to do with science.

 

[Neogaia777]

As I deny the existance of metaphysics I find the concept of determinism not applicable to reality at all.

Your blind then...

Also, ”truth” is a very dicey concept.

For very confused individuals, yes it is...

But all of your posts is in the wrong forum, they have nothing to do with science.

They have everything to do with science, but "whatever"...

Determinism is being proved more and more true as time goes on, just by "observations" in "science", etc...

More and more, even non-believers are coming to a belief in it, etc....

And I am proposing that there has to be a one who determined, (from the beginning), etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

Your blind then...



For very confused individuals, yes it is...



They have everything to do with science, but "whatever"...

Determinism is being proved more and more true as time goes on, just by "observations" in "science", etc...

More and more, even non-believers are coming to a belief in it, etc....

And I am proposing that there has to be a one who determined, (from the beginning), etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Heh, just preaching as usual and no substance.

Thats why noone cares about your inane posts.

 

[Neogaia777]

Heh, just preaching as usual and no substance.

Thats why noone cares about your inane posts.

OK, nice chatting with you man...

And, learn how to spell and type right in your posts, K...?

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

OK, nice chatting with you man...

And, learn how to spell and type right in your posts, K...?

God Bless!

Ill write in swedish the next time.

 

[Neogaia777]

Ill write in swedish the next time.

Maybe you should get a firm grasp on English before you move to Swedish, K...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[VirOptimus]

Maybe you should get a firm grasp on English before you move to Swedish, K...

Anyway,

God Bless!

woosh.

Swedish is my first language.

Also, I dont think you of all people should nitpick on spelling and grammar. Your posts are barely readable.

 

[Neogaia777]

woosh.

Swedish is my first language.

Also, I dont think you of all people should nitpick on spelling and grammar. Your posts are barely readable.

Oh, OK, well, in that case I do 100% sincerely apologize and make a retraction, K...?

I am only human, and when I am feeling like someone is trying to insult me, anyway, guess I shouldn't do that though...

I do 100% sincerely apologize, K, didn't know Swedish was you first language, sorry very much truly, OK...?

I'll overlook it from now on, K...

And, it's not that important, you are right, I can still understand what you are saying, so...

Sorry again, K...?

God Bless!

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I don't know what Laplace's Demon is...

I suspected as much - that's why I provided the link to an article about it.

That "Determinism" is the truth when it comes to God the Father and this intelligence that I speak of here, etc...

OK; I'm not sure you understand what determinism means.

... I'm not alone in that belief either, many reputable scientists are or have come to believing this, or in this, just by what they observe in science, etc.. If not in a "God", that determinism is true and has to be the truth, etc...

Certainly, I would think the majority of reputable scientists feel that macro-scale determinism (with some random micro-scale contribution from quantum mechanics) is the best available description of events in the world - which, at a fundamental level, makes free-will illusory.

I would be surprised if that was really your view too.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I tried explaining my "reasoning", but you won't accept it, so...?

As I said, constantly repeating "It's obvious!" isn't reasoning. I asked you to explain how order implies intelligence, but you were unwilling or unable. I explained all this already.

Order, design, whatever, everything being determined and pre-determined by an intelligence, which is what the "evidence" is telling us, etc, or at the very least that "determinism" is true, etc, IMO, there having to be intelligence behind it, that made and/or designed it, set it all in motion, knows/knew it all fully, from the very beginning to it's very ending, etc, etc, etc, but you won't accept it, and even say it's "invalid", etc, so I don't know what else to say, etc...

You're still presupposing an intelligence, then using an unexplained inference from order to claim everything is pre-determined by that intelligence - which is the fallacy of begging the question, built on confirmation bias; but in addition, determinism implies no free will - do you really accept that?

If you're unwilling or unable to make a counter-argument for your claim, this discussion will go nowhere.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Einstein believed it I think, now are you calling him and "idiot" basically...?

He believed in a "God-like being", and that, mostly due to what he finding out and or observing, etc...

Judging from Einstein's writing, you are completely mistaken:

"Einstein, in a one-and-a-half-page hand-written German-language letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, dated Princeton, New Jersey, 3 January 1954, a year and three and a half months before his death, wrote: "The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change anything about this. [...] For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition. [...] I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."
Wikipedia
​

 

[Neogaia777]

I suspected as much - that's why I provided the link to an article about it.

Yes, I did look at it...

OK; I'm not sure you understand what determinism means.

Certainly, I would think the majority of reputable scientists feel that macro-scale determinism (with some random micro-scale contribution from quantum mechanics) is the best available description of events in the world - which, at a fundamental level, makes free-will illusory.

I would be surprised if that was really your view too.

Yes, it is my view, and I do know what it means, etc...

It is the view from the "Father God's perspective or point of view", etc, but you also have to know that I believe God is a "trinity" also, etc...

And that Jesus had or got a revelation of this, (trinity) long, long before anyone else would or did or would have, etc, and "put it in there" in his words, etc... And in what he "inspired" his apostles to write in their words, etc...

God on "three different levels" and in "three different forms", yet also "one", etc, and one of those being man or Him, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Judging from Einstein's writing, you are completely mistaken:

"Einstein, in a one-and-a-half-page hand-written German-language letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, dated Princeton, New Jersey, 3 January 1954, a year and three and a half months before his death, wrote: "The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change anything about this. [...] For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition. [...] I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."
Wikipedia
​

No doubt when he looked at the God of the Bible that is what He saw, etc...

Doesn't mean he was right though, like I said, I believe God is a trinity, etc...

But, anyway, I thought he did retain some kind of belief is some kind of intelligence to or behind this most of his days, etc, or to, or by the end of his days, etc, but I guess I could be wrong about that maybe, etc...

Either way, I see determinism as true and I'm definitely not alone in that belief/view either, not even alone in it by many non-believers, etc...

And I just did a google search on "Did Einstein think there was a god", etc, and pulled up some very interesting links, if you want to look at them, seemed like he very much believed in determinism as true, and in the possibility of some kind of a God-like being, etc, just not the God of the Bible, or of especially the OT, etc, for the all-so-very many reasons people atypically reject Him, or that One, or that, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes, it is my view, and I do know what it means, etc...

So, do you believe in free will? If you do, how do you reconcile it with determinism - are you a compatibilist?

If not, how do you reconcile the absence of free will with Christian belief?