If I have the Respect of every Creature, I have the respect of Evolution?

[Bungle_Bear]

The intelligence in it all is seen by what proceeds forth from or after the original cause, etc...

The fact that there has to be an original cause shows the it/He is there, and what comes after it/Him/that shows the intelligence in it all...

The fact that it goes according to mathematically predictable patters, that we can know and predict with math, etc, and it is just not all random chaos, etc...

That it has lots of order to it, etc, suggests some kind of intelligent design, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Doubling down does not make your argument any different. Misunderstanding and personal incredulity are all you have presented.

 

[Neogaia777]

Doubling down does not make your argument any different. Misunderstanding and personal incredulity are all you have presented.

"Whatever"...

I explained what I think and why, you want to retort with insults and untruths fine, but I'm not playing that game, OK...?

Let me know when you really want to discuss that matter and/or try to disprove it/them, OK...?

God Bless!

 

[Bungle_Bear]

"Whatever"...

I explained what I think and why, you want to retort with insults and untruths fine, but I'm not playing that game, OK...?

Let me know when you really want to discuss that matter and/or try to disprove it/them, OK...?

God Bless!

We discussed in another thread how pointing out your failings is not an insult. As to untruths, please quote me. I do not knowingly post falsehoods, so I'd be interested where you think I've done that.

When you have anything other than incredulity and wishful thinking by all means come back. Last time I asked the same you came back with incredulity and wishful thinking. Despite your protestations, that appears to be all you have

 

[Neogaia777]

We discussed in another thread how pointing out your failings is not an insult. As to untruths, please quote me. I do not knowingly post falsehoods, so I'd be interested where you think I've done that.

When you have anything other than incredulity and wishful thinking by all means come back. Last time I asked the same you came back with incredulity and wishful thinking. Despite your protestations, that appears to be all you have

Your speaking falsehoods about me and against me and what I am saying, your saying that all of what I am saying is false for "no other reason than you say it's false", etc...

I talked about determinism, etc, how I think that this whole universe, physics, etc, is proof of intelligence and design, etc, and how I'm not alone in that, etc, and all you seem to want to do is just throw around words like "incredulity", etc... But those things alone do not make them false, and as a matter of fact, are most usually the result of "desperation", etc...

Please "disprove" anything I have had to say or have been saying please, and if you can't, then just admit you can't and move on, K...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

We discussed in another thread how pointing out your failings is not an insult. As to untruths, please quote me. I do not knowingly post falsehoods, so I'd be interested where you think I've done that.

When you have anything other than incredulity and wishful thinking by all means come back. Last time I asked the same you came back with incredulity and wishful thinking. Despite your protestations, that appears to be all you have

I am not wanting you say that intelligence is a 100% for sure certainty, etc, but only maybe a likely possibility, etc... Even if I think it is a near certainty, etc, I just want you to admit the "possibility", etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Your speaking falsehoods about me and against me and what I am saying, your saying that all of what I am saying is false for "no other reason than you say it's false", etc...

That is a falsehood I have said that what you're saying is nothing more than incredulity and wishful thinking. I have said that you have no actual evidence. I have never said that what you claim is a falsehood.

Please "disprove" anything I have had to say or have been saying please, and if you can't, then just admit you can't and move on, K...?

Others have linked to material which demonstrates the error of your claims.

I am not wanting you say that intelligence is a 100% for sure certainty, etc, but only maybe a likely possibility, etc... Even if I think it is a near certainty, etc, I just want you to admit the "possibility", etc...

You already know that I accept it as a possibility (is there a teapot orbiting the sun?) but this has nothing to do with what I accept. We are talking about what you claim. You claim to have evidence, but you can't present it. You claim to have something more than incredulity, but you can't present it. You make lots of claims but you cannot support them.

 

[Neogaia777]

That is a falsehood I have said that what you're saying is nothing more than incredulity and wishful thinking. I have said that you have no actual evidence. I have never said that what you claim is a falsehood.

I present and did/do present this whole entire world and this whole entire reality as my "evidence" and have tried to explain that, but you still reject it so...?

Others have linked to material which demonstrates the error of your claims.

Really, where...? Or how, etc...?

What is in error with presenting determinism and a deterministic universe as evidence, and/or how or where did others supposedly "disprove" this (claim) or make my claims to as how it (determinism) and this (this entire world and/or reality as the "evidence") anyway, just where did other supposedly disprove those claims, or prove them invalid, etc...?

Cause I don't think I've seen it yet, etc...?

You already know that I accept it as a possibility (is there a teapot orbiting the sun?) but this has nothing to do with what I accept. We are talking about what you claim. You claim to have evidence, but you can't present it. You claim to have something more than incredulity, but you can't present it. You make lots of claims but you cannot support them.

Again, I talked about determinism, etc, how I think that this whole universe, physics, etc, is proof of intelligence and design, etc, and how I'm not alone in that, etc, etc, etc, but you do not even, or do not even seem to anyway, even want to even entertain it/that as even a possibility even, etc...?

So, I say again,

Please "disprove" anything I have had to say or have been saying please, (or show me where others did or how they did, etc) and if you can't, then just admit you can't and move on, K...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

in·cre·du·li·ty
/ˌinkrəˈd(y)o͞olədē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the state of being unwilling or unable to believe something.
"he stared down the street in incredulity"
Similar:
disbelief
incredulousness
lack of belief
unbelief
lack of credence

Examples of incredulity in a Sentence

The news of his death was met with expressions of incredulity.

The teacher's incredulity about the claims in the essay proved to be well-founded.

Argument from incredulity, also known as argument from personal incredulity or appeal to common sense, is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition must be false because it contradicts one's personal expectations or beliefs, or is difficult to imagine.



I don't see how my argument is being "incredulous" in any way shape or form and do not see how that word even personally applies to me either, etc... If anything you are the one being "incredulous", etc, by the "definition of the word" anyway...

Bottom line, you haven't proved anything by just simply saying my argument is "incredulous", etc...

I am basing my claims on evidence, as I have said, and presented already, and tried to explain, etc... I'm not just appealing to "common sense only" or "only what I think to be common sense only based on only what I think to be common sense only", or alone, etc, or IOW's , etc...

I think your just throwing words around, etc...

You looking at what I am saying in "incredulity" is you being "incredulous", not me, etc...

All it means is you find what I am saying "hard to believe", etc, and just because you find it "hard to believe", and "for that reason alone only", and alone, you are automatically throwing it out and saying it is "wrong", etc, but that does not automatically make it "wrong", etc, not by any means whatsoever, not even close, etc... Just because you doubt it or deny it, or find it hard to believe, does not make it wrong, or in error, etc...

Or, what is it your accusing me of "not believing", etc...?

Anyway,

Anyway, again, Please "disprove" anything I have had to say or have been saying please, (or show me where others did or how they did, etc) and if you can't, then just admit you can't and move on, K...?

God Bless!

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I present and did/do present this whole entire world and this whole entire reality as my "evidence" and have tried to explain that, but you still reject it so...?

I continue to say that you have incredulity and wishful thinking. Until you can present something which is actually evidence of intelligence you are just repeating your argument from incredulity. Do you really not understand that?

Again, I talked about determinism, etc, how I think that this whole universe, physics, etc, is proof of intelligence and design, etc, and how I'm not alone in that, etc, etc, etc, but you do not even, or do not even seem to anyway, even want to even entertain it/that as even a possibility even, etc...?

Wow, that is one incredibly offensive response. You directly quote me saying "I accept it as a possibility" and then have the audacity to say I do not even entertain the possibility. That level of blatant dishonesty says a lot about your attitude to other people.

 

[Neogaia777]

I continue to say that you have incredulity and wishful thinking. Until you can present something which is actually evidence of intelligence you are just repeating your argument from incredulity. Do you really not understand that?

I did already, this whole universe and/or reality as the "evidence", etc, determinism, etc, and please see what I just posted about "incredulity", etc...

I was a little unclear about the "exact definition" and so had to look it up, etc...

Wow, that is one incredibly offensive response. You directly quote me saying "I accept it as a possibility" and then have the audacity to say I do not even entertain possibility. That level of blatant dishonesty says a lot about your attitude to other people.

I said "you seem to not even want to be entertaining it as a possibility", etc, big difference...

Direct quote from my post: "but you do not even, or do not even seem to anyway, even want to even entertain it/that as even a possibility even, etc...?"

Sorry you were offended, but I was being clear and was not being "dishonest", etc...

(and now I am offended, etc)...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I did already, this whole universe and/or reality as the "evidence", etc, determinism, etc, and please see what I just posted about "incredulity", etc...

The fact you cannot recognise the incredulity in your own argument does not mean it is not there.

I said "you seem to not even be entertaining it as a possibility", etc, big difference...

Direct quote from my post: "but you do not even, or do not even seem to anyway, even want to even entertain it/that as even a possibility even, etc...?"

That does not in any way count as an apology. We had a very lengthy discussion in another thread about teapots, which you accepted as evidence that I entertain the possibility. To now turn round and make that accusation is extremely dishonest. I treat you with respect and you accuse me of lying.

We're done.

 

[Neogaia777]

The fact you cannot recognise the incredulity in your own argument does not mean it is not there.

And, the fact that you disbelieve what I am saying does not make it "not true" either, etc...

That does not in any way count as an apology. We had a very lengthy discussion in another thread about teapots, which you accepted as evidence that I entertain the possibility. To now turn round and make that accusation is extremely dishonest. I treat you with respect and you accuse me of lying.

We're done.

I did say "seem to", or "seem to not want to", etc, now do you deny "that", etc...?

Then you came back at me all offended and such and accuse me of "dishonesty", being offensive, etc..."

Now who, or whom should be the ones, or one really offended really...?

And, I'm not going to offer you an apology in this case either, so...?

From my point of view I was being honest and was telling the truth as I saw it, etc, and I'm not going to "apologize" for that, etc...

I will give or offer apologies when and where apologies are warranted, but not in this case, etc, K...?

My "wording" was very specific and was in no way "dishonest", etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Kylie]

And, the fact that you disbelieve what I am saying does not make it "not true" either, etc...

But if all you have is an argument from incredulity, then there's no reason to believe that what you say is true. If you DO have something more than the argument from incredulity, why are you bothering with a flawed argument?

 

[Neogaia777]

But if all you have is an argument from incredulity, then there's no reason to believe that what you say is true. If you DO have something more than the argument from incredulity, why are you bothering with a flawed argument?

How do I have an "argument from incredulity" only, etc...? Care to maybe explain in detail how "I only have that only", etc...?

Cause you guys keep saying that, but I don't get it and am not seeing it and do not see it that way at all, etc...

So, care to explain please maybe (instead of just saying that), etc...?

I even looked up the word "incredulity" and "arguments from incredulity", etc, and even posted about it just a little bit back in this thread, and am still "not getting it", etc, and I think you guys are just "throwing that word or those words or those terms around", etc...

Do you mean "hard to believe", or do you mean "not based on any kind of evidence" at all, etc...? or just "what" exactly...? And be specific please, cause I'm just not getting it at all, etc...?

Please tell me what you mean, etc...?

I do believe I have more than that, much, much more than that, but you guys keep denying it and/or outright rejecting it and are saying I don't have any more than that, etc...?

I posited "causal determinism" and determinism in general and in physics, etc, and this universe and/or the or this reality as the "evidence", etc, especially in physics, etc, for determinism and a deterministic universe, etc, yet you guys just keep saying "argument from incredulity", etc, etc, etc...?

So please don't do that anymore without telling me specifically what you mean, etc, OK...?

Anyway...

God Bless!

 

[Bungle_Bear]

And, the fact that you disbelieve what I am saying does not make it "not true" either, etc...

Do you really not understand the difference between "that's not necessarily the case" and "that's not true"?

I did say "seem to", or "seem to not want to", etc, now do you deny "that", etc...?

Then you came back at me all offended and such and accuse me of "dishonesty", being offensive, etc..."

It was dishonest. You know it was dishonest based on previous conversations. Claiming otherwise is just more dishonesty.

Now who, or whom should be the ones, or one really offended really...?

And, I'm not going to offer you an apology in this case either, so...?

From my point of view I was being honest and was telling the truth as I saw it, etc, and I'm not going to "apologize" for that, etc...

I will give or offer apologies when and where apologies are warranted, but not in this case, etc, K...?

My "wording" was very specific and was in no way "dishonest", etc...

Don't try to make me the one in the wrong here. You have made dishonest accusations against me, I have not done the same to you. You have directly dismissed what I said to you as being untrue, you have misrepresented what I said and now you want to imply that I am the one who should apologise?

 

[Neogaia777]

Do you really not understand the difference between "that's not necessarily the case" and "that's not true"?


It was dishonest. You know it was dishonest based on previous conversations. Claiming otherwise is just more dishonesty.


Don't try to make me the one in the wrong here. You have made dishonest accusations against me, I have not done the same to you. You have directly dismissed what I said to you as being untrue, you have misrepresented what I said and now you want to imply that I am the one who should apologise?

I really don't expect an apology, really, "really", etc.... But neither should you expect one from me either, it was miscommunication and misunderstanding, that happens sometimes, etc, neither one of us was wrong or or was in the right or wrong or was lying or being untruthful or were more or less right or wrong than the other, etc, OK...

By the way you were speaking with me, to me, etc, how could I not think that it "seemed" as if you rejecting or were "trying" to reject and/or deny the possibility all together...?

Anyway, a "miscommunication/misunderstanding", for which neither one of needs to or should apologize but just move on from, etc...

I could say that I'm sorry about the "miscommunication", etc, but that happened on both our parts and on both ours ends IMO...

So, I'll apologize for that much or that respect or aspect OK...? For or about the miscommunication and/or misunderstanding, K...? And for the either causing of and/or the taking of offense on or for both our parts, K...?

But that's all, OK, so I hope that will suffice, K...?

And let's just "move on" OK...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Do you really not understand the difference between "that's not necessarily the case" and "that's not true"?


It was dishonest. You know it was dishonest based on previous conversations. Claiming otherwise is just more dishonesty.


Don't try to make me the one in the wrong here. You have made dishonest accusations against me, I have not done the same to you. You have directly dismissed what I said to you as being untrue, you have misrepresented what I said and now you want to imply that I am the one who should apologise?

I was not being dishonest and neither were you, we see things from "two different points of view" is all, with neither one either any more right or wrong or less or more honest or dishonest or and less or more valid or invalid than the other, OK...

Anyway, let's just "move on" OK...?

Get back to and on topic again maybe, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I was not being dishonest

Just stop. It was dishonest, I have shown how it was dishonest and continuing to insist otherwise is just more dishonesty.

we see things from "two different points of view" is all, with neither one either any more right or wrong or less or more honest or dishonest or and less or more valid or invalid than the other, OK...

While this is true, you seem to feel justified in misrepresenting what I say and accusing me of things I have not done. That's the dishonesty I am calling you out on. And that's the dishonesty you refuse to acknowledge.

 

[Kylie]

How do I have an "argument from incredulity" only, etc...? Care to maybe explain in detail how "I only have that only", etc...?

Cause you guys keep saying that, but I don't get it and am not seeing it and do not see it that way at all, etc...

So, care to explain please maybe (instead of just saying that), etc...?

I even looked up the word "incredulity" and "arguments from incredulity", etc, and even posted about it just a little bit back in this thread, and am still "not getting it", etc, and I think you guys are just "throwing that word or those words or those terms around", etc...

Do you mean "hard to believe", or do you mean "not based on any kind of evidence" at all, etc...? or just "what" exactly...? And be specific please, cause I'm just not getting it at all, etc...?

Please tell me what you mean, etc...?

I do believe I have more than that, much, much more than that, but you guys keep denying it and/or outright rejecting it and are saying I don't have any more than that, etc...?

I posited "causal determinism" and determinism in general and in physics, etc, and this universe and/or the or this reality as the "evidence", etc, especially in physics, etc, for determinism and a deterministic universe, etc, yet you guys just keep saying "argument from incredulity", etc, etc, etc...?

So please don't do that anymore without telling me specifically what you mean, etc, OK...?

Anyway...

God Bless!

I'm just going by what Bungle Bear said.

Of course, if you have evidence to support your claims, then I'd be happy to re-evaluate my position. But if all you have is an argument that boils down to, "I can't believe it could have happened any other way, therefore it didn't happen any other way," then yes, you do have an argument from incredulity.

And when you say things like, "It has order, so it must have come from an intelligence," (see post 179) that's pretty much saying that you can't imagine how order can come about without intelligence. So, argument from incredulity.

 

[Neogaia777]

Just stop. It was dishonest, I have shown how it was dishonest and continuing to insist otherwise is just more dishonesty.

While this is true, you seem to feel justified in misrepresenting what I say and accusing me of things I have not done. That's the dishonesty I am calling you out on. And that's the dishonesty you refuse to acknowledge.

Why are you pressing this issue, I was not being dishonest (and neither were you) (except maybe in saying I was being 100% dishonest, etc)...

Do I have to directly quote from what I said "again", etc...?

When someone says it "seems" this or that, etc, or "seems as if" this or that, etc, it means "they don't know for sure", etc, but are "saying or are going by what they see right now, or how they think it "seems" right now", etc, "due to what they are seeing and/or hearing from you right now", etc, etc, etc...

You don't know what "seems" means...? Or what...?

Anyway, so, I was not being "dishonest", etc, and unless you really want to continue this still, I would like for both of us to just drop it now, OK, and get "back on topic" maybe, if we can, etc, OK...?

Does that or this "seem" or sound reasonable to you, etc...?

It was a "miscommunication" OK, so lets just please drop it now, OK...?

And, you really gotta have a thicker skin on here man, just saying...

Anyway, hoping we can drop it now...? (please)...?

God Bless!