Idiot GPT-3 chatbot suffering from hallucinations.

[Neogaia777]

Well, of course, that double predestination type view (which itself is not needed in order to tell the good news, the gospel) will cause more than just 1 essential objection from non believers (and from many believers there will be one also, such as because it seems to doom some before they are born, contrary to how scripture presents choices to us).

As you know, Christians have a variety of views on God's knowing of us, about our futures, with a lot of detailed pieces even in some viewpoints.

If you are interested in my view, I listen to the way God's providence is expressed in Isaiah 46 NIV --

"What I have said, that I will bring about;
what I have planned, that I will do.

As Christ our Lord said later when He came to Earth:
"“My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

That "double predestination" view, if that's what you want to call it, is the only view you can have if you accept that God knows everything.

And if you want to know how I reconcile the rest, then just ask me, ok.

But I have been trying my very best to share it here already.

God Bless.

 

[Halbhh]

That "double predestination" view, if that's what you want to call it, is the only view you can have if you accept that God knows everything.

And if you want to know how I reconcile the rest, then just ask me, ok.

But I have been trying my very best to share it here already.

God Bless.

Perhaps we can just agree to agree on the Words He told us on this though:

"What I have said, that I will bring about;
what I have planned, that I will do."

He literally says that He will take actions to bring about His planned goals. That means those good outcomes He has chosen to accomplish. And this means those good outcomes would not have happened without His work to make them happen.

Perhaps we can simply agree on this and that's enough.

(as you can see, my view is then that God knows all the future that matters: all key things: because He will cause these key things to be accomplished, by His good work.)

 

[Jipsah]

What makes us any different?

A toaster can make make toast. You can make toast. what's the difference?

You don't think a computer brain could reach that level of sophistication?

There is nosuch thing as a "computer brain". A computer is amachine that runs a stored program that tells it what to do. That is all it is.

 

[Jipsah]

Our experiences is what shapes most of that with most of us, and all of those are caused, etc, and all of those, going way, way back, etc.

If a computer brain could somehow be made so it could have similar experiences, then could it not rise to the same level of quote/unquote "consciousness" as well, etc?

In order to make a true choice, we have to go way, way beyond our own experiences, and the history of our own experiences, etc.

And I don't know if any of us are really truly capable of that, etc.

It's certainly not what I see when I look around at almost everybody else anyway, etc.

I see all of this, and all of us, as something akin to a "program", etc. And a program that goes way, way back, etc. An almost infinite, but completely traceable/knowable/predictable, string of causes and effects only, etc. Those going all the way, way way back, etc. And I sometimes wonder if that's all this is, and is all that the rest of us are, etc.

Anyway, what if a computer brain could consider this, etc?

And what if your coffee table could agonize over moral uncertainties, would you leave the rubbish from last night's party sitting on it?

Truly considering any of this I mean, etc?

No, because a computer is simply a machine that runs a stored program that tells it what to do.

Think it would ever be capable of such a thing, etc?

No, because a computer is simply a machine that runs a stored program that tells it what to do.

Or would it only be able to do that only if it was programmed to?

That's it.

But beyond that would not ever mean anything to it personally, etc?

No person there. just hardware running software.

 

[Neogaia777]

@Jipsah

You seem to be very defensive about this subject?

God Bless.

 

[Jipsah]

You seem to be very defensive about this subject?

Because the underlying premise is nonsense. It's based on what a piece of software feels or thinks or wants or believes or likes or whatever, when it's impossible for it to do any of those things. It's software that runs on a computer.

 

[Neogaia777]

Because the underlying premise is nonsense. It's based on what a piece of software feels or thinks or wants or believes or likes or whatever, when it's impossible for it to do any of those things. It's software that runs on a computer.

But how is it that you think it might not one day be or become possible for them maybe?

Our brains are basically computers basically, and our bodies provide sensory input which causes us to feel and affects the way we (or our brains) choose or act or think or do or feel further basically, etc.

You don't think that could one day become possible for them maybe, etc?

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

But how is it that you think it might not one day be or become possible for them maybe?

Our brains are basically computers basically, and our bodies provide sensory input which causes us to feel and affects the way we (or our brains) choose or act or think or do or feel further basically, etc.

You don't think that could one day become possible for them maybe, etc?

God Bless.

If we could somehow duplicate or recreate our own pain receptors, or artificially recreate the way we feel pain in our own brains, and give an AI a way to feel the same in their own artificial brains, then I think there would be a way for them to truly become truly conscious someday, but without that, I don't think there will be until then, or until we can make that possible to happen in and with their artificial brains first, etc.

And that until then, it will never be anything more than just a computer running whatever computations it was originally programmed with until then, etc.

True consciousness seems to be inexorably linked to the ability to be hurt, or feel pain that way, etc.

And until we can give an AI that, it won't be anything more than just a fancy computer until then, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

If we could somehow duplicate or recreate our own pain receptors, or artificially recreate the way we feel pain in our own brains, and give an AI a way to feel the same in their own artificial brains, then I think there would be a way for them to truly become truly conscious someday, but without that, I don't think there will be until then, or until we can make that possible to happen in and with their artificial brains first, etc.

And that until then, it will never be anything more than just a computer running whatever computations it was originally programmed with until then, etc.

True consciousness seems to be inexorably linked to the ability to be hurt, or feel pain that way, etc.

And until we can give an AI that, it won't be anything more than just a fancy computer until then, etc.

God Bless.

In the video game "Detroit: Become Human", robots or AI's were starting to become conscious through the ability that they were developing (on their own in the game) to feel compassion and empathy, which was causing them to become conscious, etc, but this cannot happen without the ability to feel or experience pain first, and their creators would first have to give them this first, etc. and AI's were coming to this all on their own in the game, etc, which I don't think can happen in real life, etc. It would be necessary for there creators or programmers to give them the ability to do that, or feel that first, etc, and then they might be able to come to something like that after that first, etc.

Until then, just fancy computers running programs and algorithms, with no true consciousness whatsoever, and with no way to ever go beyond that without being given the ability to feel or experience pain first, etc, and I don't know that we fully understand how it is we completely do that yet first, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

In the video game "Detroit: Become Human", robots or AI's were starting to become conscious through the ability that they were developing (on their own in the game) to feel compassion and empathy, which was causing them to become conscious, etc, but this cannot happen without the ability to feel or experience pain first, and their creators would first have to give them this first, etc. and AI's were coming to this all on their own in the game, etc, which I don't think can happen in real life, etc. It would be necessary for there creators or programmers to give them the ability to do that, or feel that first, etc, and then they might be able to come to something like that after that first, etc.

Until then, just fancy computers running programs and algorithms, with no true consciousness whatsoever, and with no way to ever go beyond that without being given the ability to feel or experience pain first, etc, and I don't know that we fully understand how it is we completely do that yet first, etc.

God Bless.

By that same token, I don't know that many human beings are truly conscious until they have experienced enough pain in their lives first yet, etc.

I don't think human beings are born truly conscious IOW's, but don't come to that until later on, and when they have gone through enough pain and hell in their own lives first, etc.

Which also means many might not ever be there yet, or might not even come to it before they even ever die ever, etc.

When I look around, I think I see a lot of human beings who are not even truly conscious yet, etc.

Maybe some of you see or have experienced, or do experience the same sometimes maybe, etc?

I'll be conversing with some of them, and sometimes I can just tell, etc.

Maybe some of you have experienced the same maybe, etc?

Like they are still only just going according to the way they are or have been programmed maybe, and can't go beyond that yet, etc.

And maybe never will, etc.

And I'm constantly wondering what the difference maker is, etc?

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

By that same token, I don't know that many human beings are truly conscious until they have experienced enough pain in their lives first yet, etc.

I don't think human beings are born truly conscious IOW's, but don't come to that until later on, and when they have gone through enough pain and hell in their own lives first, etc.

Which also means many might not ever be there yet, or might not even come to it before they even ever die ever, etc.

When I look around, I think I see a lot of human beings who are not even truly conscious yet, etc.

Maybe some of you see or have experienced, or do experience the same sometimes maybe, etc?

I'll be conversing with some of them, and sometimes I can just tell, etc.

Maybe some of you have experienced the same maybe, etc?

Like they are still only just going according to the way they are or have been programmed maybe, and can't go beyond that yet, etc.

And maybe never will, etc.

And I'm constantly wondering what the difference maker is, etc?

God Bless.

Now when I look back on my own life, I'm pretty sure that there was a time when I was not truly conscious either, or was just going according to a program, and possibly just the rest of the world's own program, in my own brain, etc, but when I try to find a single time or single life event when that all changed for me, I can't, etc, but I just only know that it wasn't until I had gone through or experienced enough pain in my life that that all changed for me, etc.

And I guess we are still all only going according to someone's own program, but maybe it is just a higher program for me now, etc, because I can't help but notice the difference in the way I used to think/be, and how I am now, etc.

And all the rest of the people in the world who are still just not there yet also, etc.

It can get kind of frustrating talking to them or dealing with them sometimes, etc, knowing you are talking to somebody who might just still be a "thing" that is not truly conscious yet in the way that you are truly conscious yet, etc.

Literally like talking to an inanimate wall, or thing, a lot of the time, etc.

And I hate feeling like it is always my own responsibility sometimes, to try to take them from here to there, or there to here, just to have a conversation with them sometimes, etc.

Can be super frustrating and exhausting sometimes, etc.

And I don't want to even try to do it a lot of the time anymore, etc.

So I spend a lot of time by myself, and all alone, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Jipsah]

But how is it that you think it might not one day be or become possible for them maybe?

Excluding the possibility ofmagic, no.

Our brains are basically computers basically

No. The computer does nothing comparable to thinking. or imagining. And again, it does nothing analogous to emotions, no likes, dislikes, ambitions, whatever.

, and our bodies provide sensory input which causes us to feel

Which a machine is utterly incapable of doing at all.

You don't think that could one day become possible for them maybe, etc?

Nope. The "mechanical man" is no c;loser today than it was before digital computers were invented.

 

[Jipsah]

If we could somehow duplicate or recreate our own pain receptors, or artificially recreate the way we feel pain in our own brains

Computers don't feel, and don't have "brains".

I think there would be a way for them to truly become truly conscious someday

Pure fantasy.

And that until then, it will never be anything more than just a computer running whatever computations it was originally programmed with until then, etc.

Oh, software will become better and better, and be able to do more stuff that people alone can do now. But the self-aware "Mr. Data" or C3PO is just as remote as it ever was.

True consciousness seems to be inexorably linked to the ability to be hurt, or feel pain that way, etc.

A fair bit more complex than that, and something a machine can't emulate at even the simplest level.

 

[Neogaia777]

something a machine can't emulate at even the simplest level.

Only because their creators haven't given them a way to yet, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

No. The computer does nothing comparable to thinking. or imagining. And again, it does nothing analogous to emotions, no likes, dislikes, ambitions, whatever.

Which a machine is utterly incapable of doing at all.

Nope. The "mechanical man" is no c;loser today than it was before digital computers were invented.

Not yet, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Occams Barber]

There is a lot of confusion in this thread between 'intelligence', 'human intelligence', 'behaviour' and 'human behaviour'.

OB

 

[Neogaia777]

There is a lot of confusion in this thread between 'intelligence', 'human intelligence', 'behaviour' and 'human behaviour'.

OB

In my opinion, the only difference is the ability to feel right now, etc.

And whose to say that can't be emulated or reproduced in other beings or other consciousnesses someday, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Jipsah]

Not yet, etc.

I'd been keen to hear how you think it'll be accomplished.