sevengreenbeans
Remember Yosef
"Us" refers to "people", in general. Can human beings, in general, look forward to a restoration of the 12 tribes to the House of Israel, without being condemned?
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If you are not Jewish, what does "us" refer to?
So, if I choose to move to Canada, I'm in diaspora from the US? I don't think so.
For most Jews today (in 2010, more Jews lived in the US than in Israel), living in or out of the land is their choice. Choosing to live elsewhere is not the same thing as not being allowed to return to Israel.
So, it was Babylon who lumped everyone together. That's nice. We should definitely follow their example. :o
Since the books of the Torah keep the identities of all 12 tribes separate, while at the same time referring to them as the House of Israel, this is how I see it...
If all things shall be restored, why would the 12 tribes be any different? Can some of us be allowed to look forward to this type of restoration without condemnation?
This is why I say "Remember Yosef", because his descendants are not recognized today, just as he was forgotten after he was sent into captivity by his brothers, and just as he was forgotten by the world (unknown to Pharaoh) after his death.
I do not believe anyone should call themselves Ephraim, except those who are descended from Ephraim. I also believe that if one identifies with a tribe and wishes to be a part of their customs/culture/family, then they can request to be grafted in to that branch. It is only when they are accepted that they may call themselves by that name. This would apply to Judah, as well as any others among the 12 tribes.
Please do not automatically assume someone is talking 2 House just because the mention of "Ephraim" is made. That's ridiculous.
We use the term Jew/Jewish. You object. But your objection means nothing since we are one people, and one nation.
It was not Babylon who 'lumped' us together. We are called children of Israel. One. We are called the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Again one. Jewish is a synonym for children of Israel which refers to all 12 tribes.
The silliness of this is you, and Two House, and British Israelism, and Christian Identity, all try to tell the Jewish people who we are. We know who we are and don't need anyone to tell us. The problem is, those who try to tell us we are not who we know we are, but our own culture and terms, are always trying to take away from who we are so they can claim to be us. That is replacement theology.
We use the term Jew/Jewish. You object. But your objection means nothing since we are one people, and one nation.
It was not Babylon who 'lumped' us together. We are called children of Israel. One. We are called the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Again one. Jewish is a synonym for children of Israel which refers to all 12 tribes.
The silliness of this is you, and Two House, and British Israelism, and Christian Identity, all try to tell the Jewish people who we are. We know who we are and don't need anyone to tell us. The problem is, those who try to tell us we are not who we know we are, but our own culture and terms, are always trying to take away from who we are so they can claim to be us. That is replacement theology.
The replacement theology with the 2 House etc goes way beyond that. If you listen to Staley he leads one to believe that they must somehow be an Israelite because 'how could a person believe in a Jewish Messiah and not be an Israelite?'
Then when these people believe they are Israelites that's when the replacement theology begins.
In even goes even broader and BECOMES MORE DANGEROUS Staley leads one to believe that salvation only applies to you being Israel. He sites Romans 11 to help prove his case. In other words his paraphrase is 'after the fullness of the Lost tribes then Israel will be saved'.
It totally takes Yeshua's Atonement out of the picture because the 2 House etc believes in an identity to be saved. This is absolute truth. I've debated with many Staley followers on forums and this is a fact that followers aren't aware of. Yeshua's Atonement for all human kind is taken out of the picture unless you believe you're of the Lost tribes.
Go to any 2 House discussion group and Yeshua isn't the focus, identity is the focus.
I listened to the whole thing - nothing much redeeming to it. But you're not gonna be swayed and I'm not gonna be convinced so we're kinda at an impasse.
You've obviously been spoon fed lies for so long that you can't even entertain the possibility that it is all wrong, even when the rabbis tell you themselves. So you ignore, objectify or distort anything that differs from your worldview. Seven isn't teaching replacement theology, nor am I, or most two house teachers. You, however, are saying that Judah has subsumed all tribes into itself (replacing their individual banners with its own), even though most are still missing. That hasn't happened because it cannot, as that is also replacement theology.
Interesting to consider from differing perspectives..you mean this post
and this one
Not Yet, The Two Houses /Folds that Yeshuah says He has are made one When He builds up Zion . The Restoration of the Tabernacle of David. Ps 102:16, Amos 9:11
The valley of Trouble is for a door of Hope, so Look UP, your redemption draws near
The Task of the 144,000 > just as Moses was a deliverer and led the Assembly out of Egypt < there will be 144,000 Assemblies Of Mt. Zion in the Greater Exodus.
The 144,000
They are upon Mount Zion
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having His Father's name written in their foreheads. Rev 14:1
They are deliverers
And deliverers shall come up on Mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be YHWH's Ob 21
They shepherd the assemblies in the Greater Exodus
And YHWH will create upon every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a chuppah Is 4:5
Greater Exodus
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that they shall no more say, YHWH lives, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, YHWH lives, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. Jer 23:7-8
When > The Great Tribulation, Jacobs Trouble
As a shepherd seeks out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out My sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. Ez 34:12
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Yacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. Jer 30:7
<><><>
That which has been is now; and that which is to be has already been; and ELOHIYM requires that which is past. Ecc 3:15
According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I show unto him marvelous things. The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. Micah 7:15-16
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the ADONAY shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Is 11:11-12
YHWH does build up Jerusalem: He gathers together the outcasts of Israel. Ps 147:2
As I live, saith ADONAY YHWH, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you: And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you Face to face. Ez 20:33-35
Watch you therefore, and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before The Son of Man. Lu 21:36
The Woman with the twelve stars/ Tribes of Israel
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of ELOHIYM, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. Rev 12:6,14
You have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto Myself. Ex 19:4
Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of trouble for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. -> Hosea 2:14-15
Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, says the ADONAY YHWH. Ez 20:36
Moreover, brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 1 Cor 10:1
Just because someone comes out of the country where they are living in an assembly of Mount Zion, It doesn't mean they will enter the land of Israel.
And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against Me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and you shall know that I am YHWH. Ez 20:38
Two Folds will be made One in the day of Yezreel. ie Yacob's distress tsarah
Then shall the children of Yahudah and the children of Yisrael be gathered together, and appoint themselves One Head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel. Hosea 1:11
And other sheep (House of Israel) I have, which are not of this fold (House of Judah): them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and One Shepherd. Therefore doth my Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again. John 10:16-17
Paul instructs the Ephesians that they were formerly gentiles, that In Messiah they are Citizens of Israel 2:11-12
He informs the Galatians that in Messiah they are the Seed of Abraham... Gal 3:29
Is 41:8 But thou, Israel, art My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham My Friend.
When YHWH shall build up Tzion, He shall appear in His glory. Ps 102:16
And He shall reign over the house of Yacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end. Luke 1:33
<><><> Warning against pre -trib
All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor precede us. In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen Amos 9:10-11
I pray not that thou should take them out of the world, but that thou should keep them from the evil Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; John 17:15,20
The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. Proverbs 10:30
The First Commandment, Believe in Me
I am YHWH thy ELOHIYM, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Ex 20:2-3
Greatest Commandment
Shema Yisrael YHWH Eloheynu YHWH Echad
Sincerly, if people want to slander, they'll do so regardless of anything said that doesn't agree with the narrative they propose. In practical example, there have been multiple times throughout the ages where others - from Jewish rabbis/sages (as far back as Josephus ) to Gentiles who noted that the Northern Kingdom itself never returned fully and that there's still a massive scattering present....and there was discussion on how many Gentile nations may have either had Crypto-Jews who laid low/eventually assimilated into the culture and Jewish/Hebrew heritage was forgotten - or they lost records of heritage of no fault of their own.True. I can live knowing that others have honest disagreements with me on some things. I could even be wrong on some. :o
What I don't like is the slandering of others like calling two house believers anti-Semitic or promoting replacement theology when they state plainly that they are not.
Exactly right on every point.
Many people of the diaspora are forced to convert, one group among them - the Ethiopian sect. They are now known as Ethiopian Jews, due to conversion, but they called themselves Beta Israel - The House of Israel. There are many debates that go on among those descended from the 12 tribes, who keep their own ancient traditions alive, on whether to return to the Land of Israel at this time, because they are forced to accept Judaism and all its traditions and rabbinical teachings. They further lose their tribal identity (whether or not they know their tribe by name). They lose their own ancient traditions.
This is absolute obsurdity and proof that you have no clue about the truth. Judah is not all 12 tribes. Jews are all 12 tribes. Jew does not mean Judah. But this has been said at least 20 times on the forum. Jewish refers to children of Israel, which are all 12 tribes.
Two House wants to redefine the word to match their theology, but Jewish does not mean what Two House would like it to mean. There is so much dishonesty and misrepresentation put forth by Two House. Re-defining words in scripture to prove a theology is simply desception.
Yes. This is the biggest of the half-dozen red flags I have identified so far in Staley's "Identity Crisis" video. He weaves together a number of redefinitions and anachronisms to build his doctrine from whole cloth.
Sadly, people buy into this junk, then think it is we who accept falsehood. Staley and his ilk prey upon the ignorant and gullible.
Yes. This is the biggest of the half-dozen red flags I have identified so far in Staley's "Identity Crisis" video. He weaves together a number of redefinitions and anachronisms to build his doctrine from whole cloth.
Sadly, people buy into this junk, then think it is we who accept falsehood. Staley and his ilk prey upon the ignorant and gullible.
I think the video presentation has a couple of issues that either need to be clarified or that need to be done away with - as it concerns language wise. A lot of what he noted that others take issue with is interesting since many people against Two-House will simultaneously argue (based on what Paul said in Romans 11 and Ephesians 2) that Gentiles must be included into Israel to be a part of God's people - and thus, even when saying "We don't want any teaching which says Jews are replaced by Gentiles as being Israel!!!", it seems there's a lot of inconsistent arguing against a position since you only have 2 options:Jim Staley - Identity Crisis -This message will change your world! - YouTube
He has a few answers to questions starting about 1:10. The second Q&A directly answers accusations of replacement theology.
I agree with most of what you've said here. A covenant was made with a household. This household is the House of Israel (Jacob). Those wanting to enter into the same covenant are requesting to be "adopted" or "grafted" into this household. This household consists of 12 separate groups of people, most are assimilated to the nations they were scattered to, though some groups of people within these nations carry an oral tradition (and some ritual tradition) that they came out of Israel (even if specific tribal identity has been lost).
We use the term Jew/Jewish. You object. But your objection means nothing since we are one people, and one nation.
It was not Babylon who 'lumped' us together. We are called children of Israel. One. We are called the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Again one. Jewish is a synonym for children of Israel which refers to all 12 tribes.
The silliness of this is you, and Two House, and British Israelism, and Christian Identity, all try to tell the Jewish people who we are. We know who we are and don't need anyone to tell us. The problem is, those who try to tell us we are not who we know we are, but our own culture and terms, are always trying to take away from who we are so they can claim to be us. That is replacement theology.
Easy G (G²);62041525 said:Ethiopian Jews blame Israeli racism for discrimination and price tag graffiti in Kiryat Malakhi
On that note, it has been the case that crowds of Ethiopian `Falash Mura` immigrants protested at an Israeli government decision not to admit more of their relatives because of a judgment that they had converted from Judaism to Christianity. For an insightful video I was able to come across on the issue of Ethopian Jews, one can investigate the following:
It often seems as if there are very few that discuss the issue of what's happening to Beta Israel....or the FALASHA Mura. Of course, I'm aware of others in Israel..but again, I don't see the issue broadcast often. Thankfully, coverage is being done on the issue elsewhere/others are becoming aware of the dual reality that the "persecuted Israelies" are involved in when it comes to proclaiming to the world how there's is a homeland for "Jews"/they are attacked on all sides and mistreated....and yet, behind the lines, much of the same is done to the very people with legitimate claims of Jewish blood.
For more info on the matter of those who are Black Jews:
- New Signs that Ethiopian Aliyah Will Resume
- Israels welcome for Ethiopian Jews wears thin
- The Jews of Africa -- The Beta Israel of Ethiopia
- The Rosh Pina Project (an alternative look at Messianic Jews): Call to blacklist Ethiopian Messianic Jews
- The Rosh Pina Project ( an alternative look at Messianic Jews ): Is Today's Jewish State Racist?
This is absolute obsurdity and proof that you have no clue about the truth. Judah is not all 12 tribes. Jews are all 12 tribes. Jew does not mean Judah. But this has been said at least 20 times on the forum. Jewish refers to children of Israel, which are all 12 tribes.
Two House wants to redefine the word to match their theology, but Jewish does not mean what Two House would like it to mean. There is so much dishonesty and misrepresentation put forth by Two House. Re-defining words in scripture to prove a theology is simply desception.
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