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Icons of Evolution

AlexB23

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There is another version, a little more complicated theologically, which finds the theory of evolution (or any naturalistic theory, for that matter) to not require direct divine intervention on a material level but still attributes to Him continuous causal involvement. This was worked out by Thomas Aquina centuries ago and I believe it to be the position of most Traditional Christians. myself included.
Theology can get real complex, but yes, there are many variations on theistic evolution beliefs and Creation beliefs. That is a good view on evolution. :) Thomas Aquinas has good writings and stuff, hence why I downloaded his main book onto my computer for the AI. He is Catholic. If you ever want to rejoin the church, feel free, cos not all Christians bite, my brother.

Anyways, it is getting late here, so we can talk tomorrow. God bless.
 
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BCP1928

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Theology can get real complex, but yes, there are many variations on theistic evolution beliefs and Creation beliefs. That is a good view on evolution. :) Thomas Aquinas has good writings and stuff, hence why I downloaded his main book onto my computer for the AI. He is Catholic. If you ever want to rejoin the church, feel free, cos not all Christians bite, my brother.

Anyways, it is getting late here, so we can talk tomorrow. God bless.
I don't think that's likely. I was baptised an Anglican and remain one to this day despite having been educated in Roman Catholic schools up to and including a bachelor's degree. I doubt that I will convert anytime soon.
 
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AlexB23

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I don't think that's likely. I was baptised an Anglican and remain one to this day despite having been educated in Roman Catholic schools up to and including a bachelor's degree. I doubt that I will convert anytime soon.
Remember brother, nothing is impossible. Just find an Anglican church, and go back to the services. Anglicans are similar to Catholics. A coworker does not go to church, or follow Christianity, cos her grandmother kidnapped her when she was little, forcing her to go to church. :(

I pray for victims of religious trauma, cos that is a rough thing to go through.
 
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BCP1928

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Remember brother, nothing is impossible. Just find an Anglican church, and go back to the services. Anglicans are similar to Catholics. A coworker does not go to church, or follow Christianity, cos her grandmother kidnapped her when she was little, forcing her to go to church. :(

I pray for victims of religious trauma, cos that is a rough thing to go through.
I'm beginning to be just a little insulted. First you assume I am an atheist and when I disabuse you of that notion you assume I never go to church. My church is a refuge from the vitriolic hatred spewed by political Christianity. Why do you think I don't name it in my bio? I don't want it to be subjected to that through me. The religious trauma is here and now.
 
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Ophiolite

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But that Darwin icon is total blasphemy.
The mockery of Jesus fish
I see it as mockery of those Christians who deny the reality of evolution. It is an attack on a particular world view and the believers of that world view and not on God - their's, or any other god, God, or Gods. Consequently I think it is incorrect to declare it blasphemous.
 
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Shemjaza

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Just so you know, here is a list of Jonathan Wells' Icons of Evolution:
  1. Miller-Urey experiment
  2. Darwin's tree of life
  3. Homology in vertebrate limbs
  4. Haeckel's embryos
  5. Archaeopteryx
  6. Peppered moth
  7. Darwin's finches
  8. Four-winged fruit flies
  9. Fossil horses
  10. Hominid evolution

While someone could certainly use them as Icons, they all also represent evidence for Evolution or Abiogenesis in the case of 1.

Wells was fundamentally wrong, and I suspect dishonest with his representation of both the necessity and utility of the Miller-Urey experiment.
 
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Shemjaza

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Here is the 11th icon of evolution, one that bugs me the most, cos I see it on the back of Toyota Priuses in my city. That is a total mockery of the Jesus Ichthys. I do believe in microevolution, but not in macroevolution, unless it is guided by God (theistic evolution).

Do you believe that macroevolution is impossible, or just that it doesn't occur?

The mockery of Jesus fish

View attachment 353509


The proper fish

View attachment 353510

I think that mockery is both unnecessary and ineffective in that it makes a common mistake that I've seen atheist activists make by lumping all Christians into the same category.
 
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AlexB23

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I'm beginning to be just a little insulted. First you assume I am an atheist and when I disabuse you of that notion you assume I never go to church. My church is a refuge from the vitriolic hatred spewed by political Christianity. Why do you think I don't name it in my bio? I don't want it to be subjected to that through me. The religious trauma is here and now.
I would not hate the Anglicans. In fact, us Catholics love the Anglicans, cos you guys are so close to our belief system. I do not like political Christianity as well, one of the reasons my parents left the nondenominational churches and evangelical churches. Sorry about that, brother in Christ. :) It is good that you go to church.
 
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AlexB23

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Do you believe that macroevolution is impossible, or just that it doesn't occur?



I think that mockery is both unnecessary and ineffective in that it makes a common mistake that I've seen atheist activists make by lumping all Christians into the same category.
Hey we both agree that atheist activists should not lump all Christians in the same category. Macroevolution is possible, but not for everything. The Cambrian explosion happened so quickly, it had to be driven by God.
 
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AlexB23

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I see it as mockery of those Christians who deny the reality of evolution. It is an attack on a particular world view and the believers of that world view and not on God - their's, or any other god, God, or Gods. Consequently I think it is incorrect to declare it blasphemous.
Yeah, probably of the Young Earth Creationists, but we should still not mock them. :) Mockery only makes more division, my brother.
 
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BCP1928

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Hey we both agree that atheist activists should not lump all Christians in the same category.
Nor should creationists work so hard to divide them.
Macroevolution is possible, but not for everything. The Cambrian explosion happened so quickly, it had to be driven by God.
Yes, so quickly that it only lasted tens of millions of years.
 
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AlexB23

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Nor should creationists work so hard to divide them.

Yes, so quickly that it only lasted tens of millions of years.
Yep, only 10s of millions of years instead of hundreds of millions of years. And yes, Creationists should not force division either. There are much bigger fish to fry in this world, and yet hardcore creationists, or hardcore Darwin supporters bicker, instead of solving real issues, such as pollution and ending wars.
 
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BCP1928

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Yep, only 10s of millions of years instead of hundreds of millions of years.
And?
And yes, Creationists should not force division either. There are much bigger fish to fry in this world, and yet hardcore creationists, or hardcore Darwin supporters bicker, instead of solving real issues, such as pollution and ending wars.
Ultimately, it's about public policy. In particular, it's about whether and to what extent religion has a place in public school science class. "Hard core Darwinists" don't really care what God people believe in, they just resent the criticism that their science must be wrong, even wicked, because it doesn't support the theology of certain religious sects.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Hey we both agree that atheist activists should not lump all Christians in the same category. Macroevolution is possible, but not for everything. The Cambrian explosion happened so quickly, it had to be driven by God.

Yep, only 10s of millions of years instead of hundreds of millions of years.

You do realise that tens of millions of years is still a MASSIVE amount of time right, especially for organisms that would have vastly shorter lifespans than humans.
 
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AV1611VET

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You do realise that tens of millions of years is still a MASSIVE amount of time right, especially for organisms that would have vastly shorter lifespans than humans.

Ya -- 30 meg vs 3.7 gig.
 
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Ophiolite

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Yeah, probably of the Young Earth Creationists, but we should still not mock them. :) Mockery only makes more division, my brother.
Yes, mockery can contribute to division. I have also seen it shock mocked parties into recognising flaws in their position. Indeed satire, a form of mockery, is an important methodology for holding governments, companies and individuals accountable for anti-social behaviour.
(Also note that nothing in my post, implicitly or explicitly, indicates I approve of the mockery.)
Macroevolution is possible, but not for everything. The Cambrian explosion happened so quickly, it had to be driven by God.
With all appropriate respect Alex, unless you have made an in depth study of the Cambrian explosion, the evolution of multicellular organisms as much as 300 million years earlier, and the complex lifeforms present in the Ediacaran that likely arose as a consequence of all the environmental changes consequent at the end of the Cryogenian (Snowball Earth) and have added to that a full appreciation of laboratory studies of evolutionary rates, then you have no grounds for making such an assertion. If you look into these matters in a serious manner you will find your assertion is unsupported.
This does not mean that God did not set things up so that the natural emergence of ever more complex lifeforms in the Cambrian was inevitable. Now I don't think it happened that way, but plenty of Christians have no problem with the notion and indeed see it as evidence of his power and majesty. Just saying.
 
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AV1611VET

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10,000,000 compared to 100,000,000 is still missing two zeroes, but it is still a massive amount of time.

And in all that time, death, decay, and dying were going on, weren't they?
 
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