I want to know the OLD STUFF

[HalaM]

Thank you ma2000 for the information about the services.

I find the similarities among the world religions really amusing when thinking about how much those same religions insist on holding each other in such disdane. I think this fact is the single most causative factor of my present "faith crisis". How can people who say they love God, hate each other so vigorously?

What is described in the Orthodox services includes elements that the Muslims have used, intact in their own "Liturgy". I imagine that God finds our squabbling to be so silly. Our territorial attitudes really seem to interfere with worshiping our creator and loving one another as we ought.

I live in Downtown, so going to the Northwest of Portland is easy, though it will be some time before I am able to do that. I still have the modest clothing I wore as a Muslimah, and the scarf is not an issue to me, though I do not own the ornate lace ones that I see in the pictures. I do have a long Black one but do not know if that is suitable.

I am struggling with School, Finances, Volunteering and now of all things a BF. So, the whole relgion thing is going to have to go on the back burner. Perhaps God will resolve all that for me, or maybe he was just waiting for me to stop meddling.

Many Blessings

Hala M

 

[127.0.0.1]

How can people who say they love God, hate each other so vigorously?

Here, here!

Christianity is comprised of many universal truths. You'll find a lot of similarities between Orthodox and other religions. Heck even Buddhists venerate the Theotokos as the greatest Buddhist saint of compassion (the venerate Christ as well, though I can't remember where they place him).

It's funny actually. When we were Lutherans, my parents told me Mary was only mentioned out once a year at our church, Christmas. Basically as far as the Lutherans were concerned she was the Mother of God and Her Significance pretty much ended there. If I recall correctly Buddhists, like us Orthodox, venerate the Theotokos all year. Yet some protestants who cartoons of Buddhists (those poor unenlightened souls) in hell worshiping Buddha (which is funny because Buddhists (at least the original ones) don't worship Buddha, they regard him as a teacher, but then protestants as us Orthodox why we give adoration to the saints...so it's understandable that they would understand any other religion either.).

There's even a book, Christ The Eternal Tao. About a Taoist who actually predicted the coming of Christ sometime around 500BC (Honestly I think that's pretty impressive...it actually bothers me a tad that our Church makes no mention of him...I mean, if a guy can predict the coming of Christ without even being Jewish that's gotta count for something).

Don't be fooled though, there are differences (between us and other religions), stark ones at that. But yes, you will find many things in common as well and yes...all this "holier than thou" talk is stupid. After all, just knowing the truth won't save you and there are non-Orthodox who make it into heaven all the time!

 

[Barky]

Thank you ma2000 for the information about the services.

I find the similarities among the world religions really amusing when thinking about how much those same religions insist on holding each other in such disdane. I think this fact is the single most causative factor of my present "faith crisis". How can people who say they love God, hate each other so vigorously?

What is described in the Orthodox services includes elements that the Muslims have used, intact in their own "Liturgy". I imagine that God finds our squabbling to be so silly. Our territorial attitudes really seem to interfere with worshiping our creator and loving one another as we ought.

I live in Downtown, so going to the Northwest of Portland is easy, though it will be some time before I am able to do that. I still have the modest clothing I wore as a Muslimah, and the scarf is not an issue to me, though I do not own the ornate lace ones that I see in the pictures. I do have a long Black one but do not know if that is suitable.

I am struggling with School, Finances, Volunteering and now of all things a BF. So, the whole relgion thing is going to have to go on the back burner. Perhaps God will resolve all that for me, or maybe he was just waiting for me to stop meddling.

Many Blessings

Hala M

Your problem seems to be with theology. You see it as semantics, this view is not uncommon in our society. Tell me, what is your background theologically? You talk like an agnostic, believing in some God with no boundaries but holds merit to loving one's neighbor. What do you beleive?

 

[HalaM]

Well, there we are, now you've put a name to my malady.

I was not Christian until I was 28. I'd grown up in a hell where I was beat almost everyday of my youth. For the next 30+ years, I was Christian; being taught by Baptists and finally migrating to Four Square; all the time looking for the love in Christianity.

Got disillusioned and converted to Islam after much soul searching. I don't do all the "stuff" a Muslim does any more, but I am strictly Monotheistic as in the 1st commandment. I practiced rigid Islam for a year.

To me Christianity looks like a wedding ceremony that someone threw a paint bomb into. It's a mess!

Well, I should not be surprised because most Christian Denoms and the Muslims all believe that the Christ (or Issa PBUH) will return to a world that looks something like a home where all 8 kids have been fighting and making a terrible mess. Geeze, even the Jews believe that things will go to pot bad enough that they will need a Messiah. And, here I am crying because we don't have heaven on earth! The cheekiness of it all!

I had been naevely thinking that the religious would be a cohesive group and we would have to endure barbs from without; you know those satanists! Well, in my present disenchanted state, I think we don't need no stinkin' enemies. We are doing a fine job bloodying each other.

Many Blessings

Hala M

 

[HalaM]

Taoests Eh? Why don't we hear of this stuff in Church? I bet when I tell my church friends, it will curdle their milk, while I laugh at their discomfiture! We sit out there in the Pews happily gobling up the scraps they give us and the pastors,preists, and Imams get the good stuff. How so much like my big brother!

I don't know what's to become of my poor misbegotten soul. I wish that someone could get in my head and turn critical thinking OFF; lock it out permanently.

I'm around a lot of street people; some prostitutes. Tonight I have a shift working with teens who were abused and thrown out by their parents. I'm supposed to be presented as a Mentor who is living a normal life. Do you think these people have a clue?

I am going to be such a hand full! Are you fully advised of your rights not to talk to me?

Hala M

 

[Lukaris]

Well I believe that an Orthodox Christian can have a firm and defined faith, realize that many other people are special in God's eyes (ex. the Beatitudes), not judge our neighbors, love God and neighbor as ourselves, not ignore hell, nor assume it so easily on our neighbors. Easier said than done and most challenging to live by.

 

[Protoevangel]

Well, there we are, now you've put a name to my malady.

I was not Christian until I was 28. I'd grown up in a hell where I was beat almost everyday of my youth. For the next 30+ years, I was Christian; being taught by Baptists and finally migrating to Four Square; all the time looking for the love in Christianity.

Got disillusioned and converted to Islam after much soul searching. I don't do all the "stuff" a Muslim does any more, but I am strictly Monotheistic as in the 1st commandment. I practiced rigid Islam for a year.

To me Christianity looks like a wedding ceremony that someone threw a paint bomb into. It's a mess!

Well, I should not be surprised because most Christian Denoms and the Muslims all believe that the Christ (or Issa PBUH) will return to a world that looks something like a home where all 8 kids have been fighting and making a terrible mess. Geeze, even the Jews believe that things will go to pot bad enough that they will need a Messiah. And, here I am crying because we don't have heaven on earth! The cheekiness of it all!

I had been naevely thinking that the religious would be a cohesive group and we would have to endure barbs from without; you know those satanists! Well, in my present disenchanted state, I think we don't need no stinkin' enemies. We are doing a fine job bloodying each other.

Many Blessings

Hala M

YOu are right, Christianity has been in a mess since the Great Schism of the year 1054.

You say you are downtown. Would it be easier for you to make it to 2049 NW Overton? There is a small mission that meets here on Saturday nights, Sunday mornings, and fairly often on weekday mornings and/or evenings. Father Dimitri is a super kind and gentle man, too.

No pressure, of course. It's just that I am sure that once you start talking to a priest, and meet the people, your concerns will seem so small compared to the love, gentleness, and holiness you find there.

Please feel free to keep asking questions, though!

 

[HalaM]

Why thank you for the invitation. I don't know how soon I can take you up on it because I am fairly over whelmed with school, money issues and volunteering right now. I am trying to remain full of faith but I get so weak at times.

I will wait until it feels right because the holy spirit may have to prepare you for the shock of meeting me. I don't look anything like the Arab Woman that my name implies. Someone even asked me if I was Russian once! Nope I am pure Celtic and Alcace.

Life at the Lutheran Church I attend right now is... I'm just trying to be faithful to God.

So, can you tell me more about "Great Schism of the year 1054"? I find this church history so exciting!

Many Blessings

Gwendolyn

 

[Protoevangel]

Why thank you for the invitation. I don't know how soon I can take you up on it because I am fairly over whelmed with school, money issues and volunteering right now. I am trying to remain full of faith but I get so weak at times.

I will wait until it feels right because the holy spirit may have to prepare you for the shock of meeting me. I don't look anything like the Arab Woman that my name implies. Someone even asked me if I was Russian once! Nope I am pure Celtic and Alcace.

Life at the Lutheran Church I attend right now is... I'm just trying to be faithful to God.

So, can you tell me more about "Great Schism of the year 1054"? I find this church history so exciting!

Many Blessings

Gwendolyn

If you are up for some reading, this link is to the first half of the book called The Orthodox Church, by Metropolitan Kallistos (Ware) of Diokleia. It covers history of the Orthodox Church (and the schism) in a very fair and balanced way.

If you just want a very brief overview, it goes kinda like this:

Originally there were five great Patriarchs who guided the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. These Patriarchs were seated at Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. They worked as equals, with the highest honor belonging to the Patriarch (Pope) of Rome. Over time, the Pope began to see his status of honor as a status of privilege. He tried forcing the other Patriarchs to accept changes in the faith, and the five Patriarchs refused these changes. In 1054, the Pope sent legates to Constantinople, and they excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople. The Patriarch of Constantinople in turn, excommunicated the Pope. The other four Patriarchs saw the situation for what it was, and decided to side with Constantinople.

That is really a gross oversimplification, and leaves a lot of important details out. The book I linked you to above will fill in most of the details (perhaps more than you really want to know).

If you like that, I'll link the second half of the book, too.

 

[ma2000]

The other four Patriarchs saw the situation for what it was, and decided to side with Constantinople.

You mean the other three (Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria). Sorry for the intrusion.

 

[Barky]

Well, there we are, now you've put a name to my malady.

I was not Christian until I was 28. I'd grown up in a hell where I was beat almost everyday of my youth. For the next 30+ years, I was Christian; being taught by Baptists and finally migrating to Four Square; all the time looking for the love in Christianity.

Got disillusioned and converted to Islam after much soul searching. I don't do all the "stuff" a Muslim does any more, but I am strictly Monotheistic as in the 1st commandment. I practiced rigid Islam for a year.

To me Christianity looks like a wedding ceremony that someone threw a paint bomb into. It's a mess!

Well, I should not be surprised because most Christian Denoms and the Muslims all believe that the Christ (or Issa PBUH) will return to a world that looks something like a home where all 8 kids have been fighting and making a terrible mess. Geeze, even the Jews believe that things will go to pot bad enough that they will need a Messiah. And, here I am crying because we don't have heaven on earth! The cheekiness of it all!

I had been naevely thinking that the religious would be a cohesive group and we would have to endure barbs from without; you know those satanists! Well, in my present disenchanted state, I think we don't need no stinkin' enemies. We are doing a fine job bloodying each other.

Many Blessings

Hala M

I'm going to try and challenge your thinking here, bear with me. Just because Christianity as you see it is messy, would that make it more or less true? Just because many people claim to have truth and they speak differently, does not mean there is not a truth at all. Christianity is meant to be wholly Catholic (that is universal) in its Church and life. People, unfortunatly, have taken it upon themselves to say they know what God REALLY means and have seperated from its true body, the Church.

This has been the way humans work throughout history (some things never change). The bible mentions different Jewish sects believeing (or not beleiving) in things like the ressurrection from the dead.

 

[HalaM]

Thank you for the link. I look forward to it with relish!

Hala M

 

[Protoevangel]

You mean the other three (Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria). Sorry for the intrusion.

You are correct. Thank you.

 

[HalaM]

I'm going to try and challenge your thinking here, bear with me. Just because Christianity as you see it is messy, would that make it more or less true? Just because many people claim to have truth and they speak differently, does not mean there is not a truth at all. Christianity is meant to be wholly Catholic (that is universal) in its Church and life. People, unfortunatly, have taken it upon themselves to say they know what God REALLY means and have seperated from its true body, the Church.

I get emotional and passionate about this religion thing. I see conflicts, "plans within plans", and some of them seem to come not from honest intellectual differences but from the need for power. The 1054 split is a perfect example of that. OH my gosh, yesterday I did not even know about it and now I have an OPINION!

This has been the way humans work throughout history (some things never change). The bible mentions different Jewish sects believeing (or not beleiving) in things like the ressurrection from the dead.

My, aren't we a quarrelsome lot. I do not see what God SWT loves about us; It is a mystery.

I'm taking a correspondence class and I am waaayayyy late. I have to go no matter how interested in staying I am.

Hala M

 

[127.0.0.1]

I'm taking a correspondence class and I am waaayayyy late. I have to go no matter how interested in staying I am.

What are you studying for? What degree?

 

[HalaM]

What are you studying for? What degree?

I'll make the story the least convoluted that I can.

I am an Electrician, but I let my license expire after I was injured; thinking I would never go back to work again. Gee, I got well, but I thought I would never get my license back because of Oregon's really punitive laws. Much to my surprise, they changed the law, and a man I ran into in a hardware story told me about it.

The hitch is that I have until October 1st to complete the school I need to do the renewal. That is costing $300, and the renewal is another $100. So, it is all really stressing me out, but I think I can get the school done, get enough money to do it and then I am going to sit down and bawl for a week.

Many Blessings

Gwen

 

[HalaM]

Hey:

What happened? Suddenly, no one is saying nothing. Did I do something wrong?

Hala M

 

[EvangeliGirl]

Taoests Eh? Why don't we hear of this stuff in Church? I bet when I tell my church friends, it will curdle their milk, while I laugh at their discomfiture! We sit out there in the Pews happily gobling up the scraps they give us and the pastors,preists, and Imams get the good stuff. How so much like my big brother!

I don't know what's to become of my poor misbegotten soul. I wish that someone could get in my head and turn critical thinking OFF; lock it out permanently.

I'm around a lot of street people; some prostitutes. Tonight I have a shift working with teens who were abused and thrown out by their parents. I'm supposed to be presented as a Mentor who is living a normal life. Do you think these people have a clue?

I am going to be such a hand full! Are you fully advised of your rights not to talk to me?

Hala M

There are many things I want to study, World/Comparative Religion being one. But it's not enough to just have 'head knowledge' of different religions, I think. I mean, knowing the sacred writings, theology, and philosophy of religions are important, but I think it's mostly useless (except perhaps in academic circles) if one doesn't also know the context, culture, and people among which belief systems are applied/lived out. I hope to eventually acquire a 'practical' knowledge/experience of the people of different belief systems. Anyways, just sharing...

I'm very interested in hearing more about your work with people 'on the streets'. I spent some time living with others who had backgrounds so much more tragic than mine. I continuously pray that God will strengthen me so that I can, in turn, bring the 'comfort of Christ' to those such as I knew.

I recently watched "Freedom Writers" - awesome story! In one part, Miep Geis (the woman who hid Anne Frank and shared her diary) came to speak to the class of high school English students the movie is based on, and told them, "Your faces are engraved in my heart." That's just how I feel about every unfortunate person I've ever known, even though I 'dwelt among them' as an unfortunate myself.

Hey:

What happened? Suddenly, no one is saying nothing. Did I do something wrong?

Hala M

I don't think so, Hala! It's likely no one wanted to distract you from your heavy workload - especially with all that reading your doing!

April

 

[Barky]

My, aren't we a quarrelsome lot. I do not see what God SWT loves about us; It is a mystery.

I'm taking a correspondence class and I am waaayayyy late. I have to go no matter how interested in staying I am.

Hala M

I'm confused. I'm trying to ask you questions and get to the heart of your belief so maybe we can make some progress in our discussion. If, when I ask a question, you merely state I am a "quarrelsome lot", it is hard to get to the heart of the discussion.

 

[Protoevangel]

Hey:

What happened? Suddenly, no one is saying nothing. Did I do something wrong?

Hala M

Not at all. I recently gave you a lot to read. Have we missed some questions? If so, I apologize.