I want to know the OLD STUFF

[HalaM]

The church has condemned the gnostic writings...Why do you read those documents? they are not authentic. halam are you here to have a serious discussion or just throw accusations? If you wish to just post all this "made up" claims do not expect us to take you seriously.

Gosh you jump to anger fast, and you are judgemental. I am not Orthodox, but I have lots of questions. I am ignorant not evil. I'm not interested in all the religious buzz words.

The gnostic gospels have many "consiparcy" theory imaginable.. So what?

You could have said that in more Christ like tones, no?

I know you are a muslim and wish to come here and preach to us agaisnt the dogma of our church and the Fathers. Those gnostics and their writings are the very basis your pseudo-prophet used to disprove Christ's Divinity...and reduce him to a prophet.

I said at the outset that I spent a year in full emersion as a Muslim. It left an impression on my heart and I still admire much of the Islamic thought. Will I preach it to you? NO

I attend a Lutheran Church here in Portland, but I would not consider myself a good Lutheran.


Those fathers were defending Orthodoxy. You will not find any archeological evidence that prove to your claims...Christ was not a gnostic. Christ talked very opnely to the Synagogues and never gave "hidden" messages. It says so in the Gospel.

Gnosticism is nothing but false teachings about God through "personal" interpretation and "mystical" traditions that lead ONLY Some to know while others do not.. know.

Gnosticism is based on paganism and what good can come out of it? Just a bunch of unbased theories and imaginations mixed with withcraft.... a truly confused and syncretistic outlook of Christianity...If you do not anything important to ask please do not come here and preach to us...

Believe me, If I ever see you in the hall, I will cringe in fear. I only wanted to ask questions and learn. How can you treat me like this? How awful!

From your posts you do not ask...you rather tell us what you think Christianity to be....

I have been asking, and I want to learn, but I don't trust. I want to read it for myself. If you are an example...

Hala M

 

[127.0.0.1]

I have been asking, and I want to learn, but I don't trust. I want to read it for myself.

You sound like me.

 

[Philothei]

Gosh you jump to anger fast, and you are judgemental. I am not Orthodox, but I have lots of questions. I am ignorant not evil. I'm not interested in all the religious buzz words.

I am judging from your posts... nothing else.

You could have said that in more Christ like tones, no?

You brought it up you have to ask I will answer

said at the outset that I spent a year in full emersion as a Muslim. It left an impression on my heart and I still admire much of the Islamic thought. Will I preach it to you? NO

I attend a Lutheran Church here in Portland, but I would not consider myself a good Lutheran.

Your business about the Islam... Why are you attending a Lutheran church if you do not consider yourelf a "good Lutheran"? ARe you interested in Orthodoxy? What excatly do you like in Orthodoxy?

Believe me, If I ever see you in the hall, I will cringe in fear. I only wanted to ask questions and learn. How can you treat me like this? How awful!

Forgive me you thought that I was attaching you but we do get people who ask questions and leave ...never to come back to discuss again...
Why should you fear if you only came to ask? no problem if your intentions are fine no reason to get defensive I am not at your hall either. Have fun

 

[HalaM]

You sound like me.

The only thing I am sure of is this reverse entropy had to have a cause. If human beings are the best he can do... And I'm part of this too... Sure wasn't voluntary.

Guess Orthodoxy is not the place to ask questions.

Keep lookin I guess.

 

[Philothei]

Guess Orthodoxy is not the place to ask questions

What questions were not answered?

 

[Protoevangel]

I have been asking, and I want to learn, but I don't trust. I want to read it for myself. If you are an example...

Hala M

Hala,

I'll try to answer one of your questions: "OK, I'd really like to know the difference between so called Baptist Christianity and Orthodoxy. Is it something blatant and glaring or is it like the stupid coversation between Calvanisim and Armenisim. To me it is like this big controversy that no one has the answer to."

The differences are huge.

The biggest difference is history. Orthodoxy is the Church that was created by Christ, and christened by the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. The Orthodox link to the Apostles is unbroken, and verifiable. The Baptist denomination, on the other hand, was a schismatic sect that didn't exist until the 16th century.

Now, I want to make something clear: I am not claiming that Baptists or other "denominations" do not have "salvation". That is not an Orthodox understanding. The Baptists have an orthodox Christology and strive to live very holy lives. Please do not misunderstand me here. Many find this to be very hard to understand.

Actually, it's getting late. Perhaps someone else can fill in some more details, but I'm getting really tired. I'll check in tomorrow.

You will find churches all over the place, trying to tell you what to believe. It looks like you've had your fill of that. Let's start by showing you why the Orthodox is the true Church of Christ, and why she can be trusted, instead of shoving doctrines and dogmas down your throat.

 

[Protoevangel]

I attend a Lutheran Church here in Portland, but I would not consider myself a good Lutheran.

Portland, OR? Too cool. That's where I'm from!

Stick around, let's talk. It's like I said earlier... It was just a misunderstanding.

 

[127.0.0.1]

The only thing I am sure of is this reverse entropy had to have a cause. If human beings are the best he can do...

Humans are the highest of all of God's creations...but we're in a fallen state (and so is all of creation).


Basically if you're sick 'n tired of idots coming up to you in the airport and asking if you've let Christ into your life then you'll love Orthodoxy.

If your sick 'n tired of hearing a preacher preach about which US politician is in hell (or going to be) then Orthodoxy is for you.

If you're sick 'n tired of 1,100 different ways to read the Bible and bunch of solo-scriptural folk who take everything it says literally then Orthodoxy is for you.

Guess Orthodoxy is not the place to ask questions.

No, that's message boards.

Keep lookin I guess.

Don't be so quick to dismiss you've only ask a couple questions on a message board (message boards are notoriously over-ridden with opinion, too much theologumena.).

Portland, OR? Too cool. That's where I'm from!

Stick around, let's talk. It's like I said earlier... It was just a misunderstanding.

I thought you were going to bed?

 

[HalaM]

Thank you for your kindness. It's almost midnight, and I have overextended myself today. I worked hard today and now I want to bawl, but first I am going to have a hot shower, take something for the pain and go to bed.

May we talk tomorrow?

Hala M

 

[Gwenyfur]

​

Thread Reopened...
Sorry for the misunderstanding

Carry on
​

 

[Michael G]

PS
Beware the fundis. They would have you believe that The Holy Spirirt is somehow crippled & totally incapable of adapting itself to the 21st century. *cough* *cough* Old Rite "Old Believers" (not in communion with the other Orthodox Churches (in fact they've pretty much departed from the Orthdox Faith), but a good example of OC fundamentalsim gone bad) *cough* *cough*

Have you ever met an Old Believer? If not, please do not rip them. There is a very solid reason why they schismed from the Church and they are not even remotely comparable to Protestant Fundamentalism. Also, atleast the Old Believer Church in Erie, PA (and others might be as well) is united to ROCOR which last I checked was united to all of Orthodoxy.

 

[EvangeliGirl]

Hi Hala,
I am just a catechumen so I am not worthy to represent Orthodoxy, but my heart goes out to you so I wanted to speak up.

I actually first learned of the Orthodox church on this message board, but it was from a thread about CS Lewis so not as heated as many other topics! Fortunately for me, the tone of many of the Orthodox I began to talk with was a big part of the draw for me to stick around and initially feel there was something worth investigating in Orthodoxy. I hope it will be the same for you!

I grew up in the 'Bible-thumping', fundamentalist south, where God's name is represented in some pretty disgusting ways. I didn't know about the Calvinism/Armenianism debate until after living here in the midwest for a few years, when the church I'd been attending for a long time reluctantly disclosed their position ('mostly Armenian', they said - they really didn't want to people to get caught up in the matter. It was a media-oriented nondenominational, fledgling mega-church. Doctrinal debate's not good for attendance numbers, ya know!).

Actually, one of my biggest contentions with God was over the worthiness of the human race. In response to all of the psychological and emotional trauma which seemed to often be the impetus for people's sinful actions, I questioned, "Are we really worth it, God? Wouldn't it be better if you'd just never created us?"

Of course, Orthodoxy has really helped me have a more reasonable perspective on not only the human race, but God's goodness and glory. We can't see outside the problems of evil on our world, but God can see the final glory. One day his goodness and glory will be so consuming every false thing in this world will be forgotten by his blessed ones. It's also a great mystery to think of how God chose to come to earth not as an angelic being, or unique creature superior to man, but as a man. By this we are not only assured, despite the flaws and ignorance obvious in all of us, that we have been made in His image, and that God has made a way, not only for our souls to ascend, but for our human bodies to be glorified and made eternal.

No other Christian faith I sought the truth in, including Baptist, Charismatic, Lutheran, Anglican and others, could convey these truths in such a way that began to heal my soul. God gave us His church, the Orthodox church, to be a hospital for sinners, through which the sacraments will heal our souls through communion with Him.

I hope you hang around, Hala!

April

 

[127.0.0.1]

Have you ever met an Old Believer? If not, please do not rip them. There is a very solid reason why they schismed from the Church and they are not even remotely comparable to Protestant Fundamentalism.

I know there's a difference and I know why they split off (after all the Russians killed like 2 million of 'em). But they've taken a pretty strange path IMO.

Also, atleast the Old Believer Church in Erie, PA (and others might be as well) is united to ROCOR which last I checked was united to all of Orthodoxy.

:o Right, shutting up.

 

[Protoevangel]

I know there's a difference and I know why they split off (after all the Russians killed like 2 million of 'em). But they've taken a pretty strange path IMO.

:o Right, shutting up.

Some stranger than others. Some kept the Priesthood, some gave it up. Some even gave up marriage, icons, money, etc.

Others on the other hand, stayed quite Orthodox, the Popvtsy, for example, retained Apostolic succession, along with all of the old rituals and way of life.

Which really only goes to show that we shouldn't paint them with too broad of a brush.

 

[Protoevangel]

Hala,


Do you have any questions so far? I know your thread has taken some odd turns of subject...

 

[HalaM]

I am NOT 25, I am 61. I tried to correct that, but an Administrator has to do it and I am waiting. I did not want to be getting junk mail for old people. Sorree.

Oh, this is much worse than I thought. Catechumen; I didn't know what that meant so I googled it and instead of a sentence, I got two pages. I'll never get it; it's too much for me!

Not to be disrespectful, but this is way more complicated than I was hoping for. I was looking up Eastern Orthodox on the internet and the first pictures I got showed the men with beards and the women with Hijabs, or at least they look similar.

The reason I said "religion other" was that I'm just pulling way back from all of it. I just want to sit issolated for a while until my head stops spinning and I can begin to make some sense. Maybe I should have said that I was a student of religions.

In other words, I am really fascinated with history from about 400 BC to about 700 AD. I just want to try to understand how it is that there can be so many religons right alongside all these wars. Is it really that there is an outside, evil influence on us, or are we really more nasty than even Satan could make us?

One central point with almost all the religions I have read about is "Apple Hate". That is the term I use for men using the fact that Eve ate the Apple first to continue to degrade and punish women for how many thousand years? I assure you that I am NO Feminista. I really only put my claws out in the face of violence toward women. Even the Muslims degrade women, and I don't think they even have an Apple Hate story.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I want men around to change flats, open the pickles, take out the garbage and in return, I will do his very yukky inside out socks, cook his dinner, feed his babies, and all that. And NO, IMHO, women have no business in Combat.

So, I'm not mad at anyone, but maybe I will just go over to religious history. It's better this way. I'm really just interested in the factual, unemotional, un buzz worded account of what happened during those times. You know the stuff that a college prof would give you.

You've all been very nice though.

Hala M

 

[HalaM]

Um, so, if I wanted to attend a church like yours in Portland, Oregon just to see what it is like. Where would I go? Would I want to bring a scarf? Good thing I saved my Hijabs, huh?

Like one of the other guys said to me. He said he was a researcher, and so am I?

Many Blessings

Hala M

 

[Protoevangel]

I am NOT 25, I am 61. I tried to correct that, but an Administrator has to do it and I am waiting. I did not want to be getting junk mail for old people. Sorree.

Oh, this is much worse than I thought. Catechumen; I didn't know what that meant so I googled it and instead of a sentence, I got two pages. I'll never get it; it's too much for me!

Not to be disrespectful, but this is way more complicated than I was hoping for. I was looking up Eastern Orthodox on the internet and the first pictures I got showed the men with beards and the women with Hijabs, or at least they look similar.

The reason I said "religion other" was that I'm just pulling way back from all of it. I just want to sit issolated for a while until my head stops spinning and I can begin to make some sense. Maybe I should have said that I was a student of religions.

In other words, I am really fascinated with history from about 400 BC to about 700 AD. I just want to try to understand how it is that there can be so many religons right alongside all these wars. Is it really that there is an outside, evil influence on us, or are we really more nasty than even Satan could make us?

One central point with almost all the religions I have read about is "Apple Hate". That is the term I use for men using the fact that Eve ate the Apple first to continue to degrade and punish women for how many thousand years? I assure you that I am NO Feminista. I really only put my claws out in the face of violence toward women. Even the Muslims degrade women, and I don't think they even have an Apple Hate story.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I want men around to change flats, open the pickles, take out the garbage and in return, I will do his very yukky inside out socks, cook his dinner, feed his babies, and all that. And NO, IMHO, women have no business in Combat.

So, I'm not mad at anyone, but maybe I will just go over to religious history. It's better this way. I'm really just interested in the factual, unemotional, un buzz worded account of what happened during those times. You know the stuff that a college prof would give you.

You've all been very nice though.

Hala M

Hala,

I'll start simple.

Catechumen: a catechumen is someone who is receiving instruction in the principles of Orthodoxy.

And don't let the beards and the head coverings frighten you. They are the trappings of culture. Here in the USA, men with beards and women with head coverings are probably the minority.

Your question about history though, is pretty broad. I really wouldn't know where to start. Could you maybe narrow your focus a bit?

As far as the "outside evil force", the simple answer would be, "yes". Satan is alive and a real force in the world, along with his demons. Now, a more nuanced answer would of course have to bring up the fact that we are all nasty, selfish people who would get into enough trouble, even without Satan's help.

Never heard of "apple hate" but the fact of the matter is, Adam ate of the apple, with full consent of his will, just as Eve did. Hatred or violence against women is absolutely contrary to everything the Orthodox Church is.

Hope that helps a little. Maybe someone else can offer you better answers.

 

[ma2000]

Um, so, if I wanted to attend a church like yours in Portland, Oregon just to see what it is like. Where would I go? Would I want to bring a scarf? Good thing I saved my Hijabs, huh?

Like one of the other guys said to me. He said he was a researcher, and so am I?

Many Blessings

Hala M

http://www.orthodoxyinamerica.org/lr_v10/locator.php?geo_region=us&user_origin=Portland

It's not mandatory to bring a scarf, but you should read this:
http://www.frederica.com/12-things/

 

[Protoevangel]

Um, so, if I wanted to attend a church like yours in Portland, Oregon just to see what it is like. Where would I go? Would I want to bring a scarf? Good thing I saved my Hijabs, huh?

Like one of the other guys said to me. He said he was a researcher, and so am I?

Many Blessings

Hala M

Thanks to ma2000!

Hala, I had missed your post. Sorry about that.

If you came to my parish, on NE 162nd ave, just off of Halsey St. (2101 NE 162nd Ave) You might see one woman wearing a scarf through the whole service, another three or four who put scarves on when they go forward to receive Communion, and the rest of the women never even thinking about a scarf.

If you attend as a visitor, nothing special will be expected of you. Come dressed comfortably. If you would like for me to introduce you to Father Alban, the priest, I would be happy to do so. He is a warm, wonderful person, as are his wife and children, as is everyone there. They will certainly make you feel at home.

Of the other parishes I have visited, some are almost identical to my own, some have a higher population of women who wear scarves. But nowhere, have I seen 100% of the women wearing scarves.

If NW Portland is too far, let me know, I can suggest other English speaking parishes around Portland. The Orthodoxy in America link ma2000 provided is very helpful as well, but a few of the parishes don't use English in their services, as they primarily serve the recent Romanian, Ukrainian, etc, immigrants.