I struggle with...

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AV1611VET

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That salvation is by faith and the responsibility that comes with it.
Salvation is by grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is unmerited favor; a free gift.
Colter said:
That ALL men and women of the earth are sons and daughters of the living God.
No, they aren't.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 
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mark kennedy

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...trying to understand the creationist mentality. I've been struggling with this for years. Is anyone prepared to give an honest, clear explanation as to why they believe in creationism?
For many of the same reasons I believe in the Incarnation, Resurrection, virgin birth and the miracles of the Bible. The arguments of Darwinian natural history are far to presumptive while the testimony of Scripture is a living history.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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As my pastor has said many times: Man wasn't smart enough to write the Bible.

That is an understatement a big understatement
but
we'll said brother.

M-Bob
 
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That is an understatement a big understatement
but
we'll said brother.

M-Bob
For many of the same reasons I believe in the Incarnation, Resurrection, virgin birth and the miracles of the Bible. The arguments of Darwinian natural history are far to presumptive while the testimony of Scripture is a living history.
Yet there is no evidence that the yarn was written by any anyone but ignorant pre-scientific goat-herders,
 
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mark kennedy

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Yet there is no evidence that the yarn was written by any anyone but ignorant pre-scientific goat-herders,
Your confusing bias and opinion with fact, a common mistake, a fatal flaw in your logic known as a fallacy.
 
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Colter

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Salvation is by grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is unmerited favor; a free gift.No, they aren't.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
That's not the original gospel, the identity of Jesus was secret while he was teaching the gospel about the Father.

You quote opinions from Paul after the gospel changed.
 
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Colter

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We've been through this before, and I'm not going to rehash it with you again, except to remind you that the Jews were expecting the Psalm 72 / Isaiah 11 conquering Messiah, and Jesus came to fulfill the Psalm 22 / Isaiah 53 suffering Messiah first; and He will fulfill the other when He comes back.I'm familiar with the Jews in the Babylonian exile.

I am not familiar with Hebrew priests in the Babylonian exile, especially ones who re-wrote the Scriptures.No.Then don't pull me in that direction.
Then don't waste my time asking questions if you are unwilling to get the answer.
 
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AV1611VET

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That's not the original gospel,
Yes, it is.
Colter said:
... the identity of Jesus was secret while he was teaching the gospel about the Father.
Bologna.

John the Baptist introduced Him to all of Judea.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
 
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Colter

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Yes, it is.Bologna.

John the Baptist introduced Him to all of Judea.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Both of those quotes can be interpreted as Jesus coming to make the way of salvation by faith more clear. Followers of the new gospel about Jesus, after the tragic rejection and cross, can superimpose their preconceived Pagan interpretation of human sacrifice onto certain sayings that don't specifically say such.

A gospel about Jesus replaced the original gospel of Jesus that the Jews rejected.

John the Baptist also held certain erroneous ideas about the apocalyptic wrath that never came based on the scripture.

I said
"the identity of Jesus was secret while he was teaching the gospel about the Father."

you said:
"Bologna"


Know your scriptures!

Peter's Confession of Christ
(Matthew 16:13-20; Luke 9:18-20; John 6:66-71)

27Then Jesus and His disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way, He questioned His disciples: “Who do people say I am?”

28They answered, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others say You are one of the prophets.”

29“But who do you say I am?” He asked.

Peter answered, “You are the Christ.”

30 And Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about Him.
 
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AV1611VET

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John the Baptist also held certain erroneous ideas about the apocalyptic wrath that never came based on the scripture.
Everyone's wrong because of your buddies in Babylon, aren't they?


Care to address the point I made with the U.S. Constitution vs the Martian's counterfeit version?
 
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Colter

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Everyone's wrong because of your buddies in Babylon, aren't they?


Care to address the point I made with the U.S. Constitution vs the Martian's counterfeit version?
Your hypothetical would be a good comparison if the OT books were already established before the captivity. I provided links from Jewish scholars concerning Babylon but your pride wont allow you to ever admit you are wrong about anything.

The educated, elite priest class had scrolls that they taught from. A generation later the group that returned to Jerusalem and began rebuilding the temple were teaching from their expanded accounts.


This is how the new records became the accepted record of the Jews:

"The Babylonians, because of immediate contact with the remnants of the civilization of the Adamites, enlarged and embellished the story of man's creation; they taught that he had descended directly from the gods. They held to an aristocratic origin for the race which was incompatible with even the doctrine of creation out of clay.

The Old Testament account of creation dates from long after the time of Moses; he never taught the Hebrews such a distorted story. But he did present a simple and condensed narrative of creation to the Israelite, hoping thereby to augment his appeal to worship the Creator, the Universal Father, whom he called the Lord God of Israel.

In his early teachings, Moses very wisely did not attempt to go back of Adam's time, and since Moses was the supreme teacher of the Hebrews, the stories of Adam became intimately associated with those of creation. That the earlier traditions recognized pre-Adamic civilization is clearly shown by the fact that later editors, intending to eradicate all reference to human affairs before Adam's time, neglected to remove the telltale reference to Cain's emigration to the "land of Nod," where he took himself a wife.

The Hebrews had no written language in general usage for a long time after they reached Palestine. They learned the use of an alphabet from the neighboring Philistines, who were political refugees from the higher civilization of Crete. The Hebrews did little writing until about 900 B.C., and having no written language until such a late date, they had several different stories of creation in circulation, but after the Babylonian captivity they inclined more toward accepting a modified Mesopotamian version.

Jewish tradition became crystallized about Moses, and because he endeavored to trace the lineage of Abraham back to Adam, the Jews assumed that Adam was the first of all mankind. Yahweh was the creator, and since Adam was supposed to be the first man, he must have made the world just prior to making Adam. And then the tradition of Adam's six days got woven into the story, with the result that almost a thousand years after Moses' sojourn on earth the tradition of creation in six days was written out and subsequently credited to him.

When the Jewish priests returned to Jerusalem, they had already completed the writing of their narrative of the beginning of things. Soon they made claims that this recital was a recently discovered story of creation written by Moses. But the contemporary Hebrews of around 500 B.C. did not consider these writings to be divine revelations; they looked upon them much as later peoples regard mythological narratives.

This spurious document, reputed to be the teachings of Moses, was brought to the attention of Ptolemy, the Greek king of Egypt, who had it translated into Greek by a commission of seventy scholars for his new library at Alexandria. And so this account found its place among those writings which subsequently became a part of the later collections of the "sacred scriptures" of the Hebrew and Christian religions. And through identification with these theological systems, such concepts for a long time profoundly influenced the philosophy of many Occidental peoples.

The Christian teachers perpetuated the belief in the fiat creation of the human race, and all this led directly to the formation of the hypothesis of a onetime golden age of utopian bliss and the theory of the fall of man or superman which accounted for the nonutopian condition of society. These outlooks on life and man's place in the universe were at best discouraging since they were predicated upon a belief in retrogression rather than progression, as well as implying a vengeful Deity, who had vented wrath upon the human race in retribution for the errors of certain onetime planetary administrators." UB 1955
 
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Colter

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Is that what these elusive Hebrew priests in exile said? or is that Coulter speaking? or science?
The fact that Jesus left without fulfilling the erroneous expectations of an exclusively Jewish Messiah.

If you were educated about the Babylonion captivity you would realize how foolish you sound claiming that the Jews no longer practiced Judaism for the 70 years they were there.
 
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razzelflabben

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That salvation is by faith and the responsibility that comes with it. That ALL men and women of the earth are sons and daughters of the living God. The community of believers are the citizens of The Kingdom of Heaven.
sounds like the gospel I grew up with and have heard taught and still hear being taught in some churches...where does Jesus come into your version?
 
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razzelflabben

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Instead of attempting to insert God in place of a given physical mechanism, I prefer the view that God ultimately directs all such physical mechanisms. It's more elegant that way.
kind of what I am saying if you have been reading my posts for comprehension but cool.
 
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