I Need to Know I'm Not Alone...

[thesunisout]

I just did something and I suddenly feel like I've betrayed my church The Savation Army as a whole and my girlfriend a fellow salvationist. I haven't had spiritual guidance in months. The people I trusted within TSA have not spoken with me since Labor Day weekend. I know I need spiritual guidance at my age, 20. I was praying all weekend and today I sent a message to an Orthodox Church semiclose. I'm a soldier I'm on a track to become a minister in the Salvation Army as is my girlfriend. Well a member of that church emailed me back in less than three hours...I was so happy I immediately accepted the book he offered for me for free. My girlfriend says she understands and she would come with me if I ever left TSA as long as I was following Him. But I still feel wrong for what I've done...

You really need to talk to your Pastor about all of this. Since you've made commitments to the Salvation Army and they are investing their time and energy in you, it would be wrong to entertain joining another denomination at this time without letting them know what is going on. I would also recommend a time of prayer and fasting to find out the will of the Lord. That is the most important thing of course, but we already know His will is to honor your elders in the church, and it would be dishonoring to them to do this behind their back.

 

[buzuxi02]

I'll do anything go anywhere that He calls me. but the Army is a great organization why would I feel this tug at my heart to leave almost everything I know...my family friends. I have always pushed the Army as an awesome organization...My mind is telling me to simply return the book if and when it arrives and forget this craziness...but my heart is MUCH more curious...

Kajiki I dont want to be rude or dampen your spirit but I have to say this.

You feel that tug at your heart because you know the SA is really just a social justice organization parading as a church. The gospel is more than just charity and the bottom line on the Salvation Army balance sheet. Poor people are not our domesticated pets in which we raise money to feed them like our poodles, and then think we are spreading eternal salvation. Do you meet the spiritual needs of the people or just their temporal needs? Do you offer them the mysteries of God or is your organization based on the same ideology (social gospel) of the other Anglo Saxon Fraternal organizations of that era which help the temporal needs of a community and make themselves look good in the eyes of the public such as the FreeMasons or even the Boy scouts?

 

[Myychael]

You really need to talk to your Pastor about all of this. Since you've made commitments to the Salvation Army and they are investing their time and energy in you, it would be wrong to entertain joining another denomination at this time without letting them know what is going on. I would also recommend a time of prayer and fasting to find out the will of the Lord. That is the most important thing of course, but we already know His will is to honor your elders in the church, and it would be dishonoring to them to do this behind their back.

 

[Kajiki]

You really need to talk to your Pastor about all of this. Since you've made commitments to the Salvation Army and they are investing their time and energy in you, it would be wrong to entertain joining another denomination at this time without letting them know what is going on. I would also recommend a time of prayer and fasting to find out the will of the Lord. That is the most important thing of course, but we already know His will is to honor your elders in the church, and it would be dishonoring to them to do this behind their back.

My fear is gossip. Not only do my immediate family but also my biological family on my Mom's side. My parents divorced years ago and so I am used as a pawn on each side as they hate each other. I love them but going to them this early...

Kajiki I dont want to be rude or dampen your spirit but I have to say this.

You feel that tug at your heart because you know the SA is really just a social justice organization parading as a church. The gospel is more than just charity and the bottom line on the Salvation Army balance sheet. Poor people are not our domesticated pets in which we raise money to feed them like our poodles, and then think we are spreading eternal salvation. Do you meet the spiritual needs of the people or just their temporal needs? Do you offer them the mysteries of God or is your organization based on the same ideology (social gospel) of the other Anglo Saxon Fraternal organizations of that era which help the temporal needs of a community and make themselves look good in the eyes of the public such as the FreeMasons or even the Boy scouts?

Actually no...their social service end is based on the idea that one won't go to Jesus on an empty stomach. TSA is highly evangelistic.

And to the people talking about fasting: I've never done that before not as a "Southern Baptist" nor as a Soldier. I know its biblical but how do I do it

 

[~Anastasia~]

Just a quick comment but there are MANY different ways of fasting.

I have Church most of the day and must go, but if needed I will try to post more later.

 

[Myychael]

I leave you with this thoughts math 6:33 also stay humble seek the best Spiritual gifts and apply them
Don’t be a pew sitter on Sunday and go home have a beer and turn on the game go home and meditate on the
Sermon that was diligently prepared for your edification please stay away from alcohol you are starting well.Read
Your Bible I spend a lot of time in the Gospels and the Pauline letters they will tell you what a Christ centered church
Looks like nodding there’s a lot of Fluff spinning the wheels lighting the candles ceremonies rituals ECT dress codes
Do this do that my first step after realizing I was in a sect I repented of my sin or sins accepted the Lord Jesus and
Had a Holy Ghost experience you would not believe for 3 solid days I had great sin preaching a heretic gospel
And just like you in a sense I had to find a Bible believing Congregation I took classes online although I had 16
Years of JW ministry school pounded into me I had to see what was biblical and what is not I still don’t have all the answers I was humbled greatly Jesus will lead you trust him I had nothing but him and he never failed me he is
Not partial he will not fail you either I had to visit many Congregation till I was satisfied you may have to do the same I will not condemn the SA,Methodist,orthodoxy,Catholic ECT-ECT I give to the SA I never give to the RED CROSS the SA is usually on the scene first promoting Christ giving GOD the Glory why should I promote RC over a Christian
Group some Christians here may be members of the RC don’t flame me but I will pick Christ believing groups
Every time I can.

 

[All4Christ]

I leave you with this thoughts math 6:33 also stay humble seek the best Spiritual gifts and apply them
Don’t be a pew sitter on Sunday and go home have a beer and turn on the game go home and meditate on the
Sermon that was diligently prepared for your edification please stay away from alcohol you are starting well.Read
Your Bible I spend a lot of time in the Gospels and the Pauline letters they will tell you what a Christ centered church
Looks like nodding there’s a lot of Fluff spinning the wheels lighting the candles ceremonies rituals ECT dress codes
Do this do that my first step after realizing I was in a sect I repented of my sin or sins accepted the Lord Jesus and
Had a Holy Ghost experience you would not believe for 3 solid days I had great sin preaching a heretic gospel
And just like you in a sense I had to find a Bible believing Congregation I took classes online although I had 16
Years of JW ministry school pounded into me I had to see what was biblical and what is not I still don’t have all the answers I was humbled greatly Jesus will lead you trust him I had nothing but him and he never failed me he is
Not partial he will not fail you either I had to visit many Congregation till I was satisfied you may have to do the same I will not condemn the SA,Methodist,orthodoxy,Catholic ECT-ECT I give to the SA I never give to the RED CROSS the SA is usually on the scene first promoting Christ giving GOD the Glory why should I promote RC over a Christian
Group some Christians here may be members of the RC don’t flame me but I will pick Christ believing groups
Every time I can.

Please remember that the RCC also are Christ believers - and are Christians, as are the Eastern Orthodox and other Nicene Christian groups. (You may not agree, but according to CF, they are considered to be Christian). As an EO Christian, I know for a fact that I am a Christ believer...and I know for a fact that the Catholics I know are also Christ believers.

 

[Myychael]

Please remember that the RCC also are Christ believers - and are Christians, as are the Eastern Orthodox and other Nicene Christian groups. (You may not agree, but according to CF, they are considered to be Christian). As an EO Christian, I know for a fact that I am a Christ believer...and I know for a fact that the Catholics I know are also Christ believers.

I didn’t say anything bad about any Denomininational group with or without Hiearchy Mother Teresa
Was a great Ambassador of Christ in loving the rejected the thrown away diseased she was awesome
To me I have a Catholic Brother in law whom I love I’m not attacking anyone if your a Christian
Then there you are I am not a Judge but I do look to see if where I’m going Jesus is in the same
Vehicle and driving it CF nor you or I will judge who gets in if he leaves SA he needs to be careful
GOD may be training this man as an evangelist all of us will be judged by Christ if I offended you I’m sorry and ask forgiveness I no am new here I will leave if asked.

 

[All4Christ]

I didn’t say anything bad about any Denomininational group with or without Hiearchy Mother Teresa
Was a great Ambassador of Christ in loving the rejected the thrown away diseased she was awesome
To me I have a Catholic Brother in law whom I love I’m not attacking anyone if your a Christian
Then there you are I am not a Judge but I do look to see if where I’m going Jesus is in the same
Vehicle and driving it CF nor you or I will judge who gets in if he leaves SA he needs to be careful
GOD may be training this man as an evangelist all of us will be judged by Christ if I offended you I’m sorry and ask forgiveness I no am new here I will leave if asked.

Certainly I would like you to stay It’s just an important thing to remember - and based on your explanation, I may have misunderstood your comment. Indeed, God is the only judge - and He is the One who knows who is / will be saved. Ultimately, God will lead us all if we ask Him to do so. Trusting Him to lead us is the best path for us to follow.

As a fellow believer of Christ, blessings to you.

 

[Kajiki]

Something I tell my high school Sunday school class almost every Sunday is that we are to be known by our love for one another. This stretches beyond denominational lines in my opinion. If I were to become say Eastern Orthodox I’m sure God would still use me to minister to others. I feel that call and accept that charge with my whole heart. The charge to go out and make disciples of Him.

I do wonder how far evangelism goes when it comes to Eastern Orthodox Christians. I’ve always kinda pictured them as very quiet in comparison to the Protestant churches I’ve atteneded. TSA in particular is VERY boisterous when it comes to God. Only in prayer and during singing the doxology and other various times do we actually seem quiet and fully reverent. That’s actually something else I dunno if other denominations have, This doxology is recited every Sunday service:

Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow;

Praise Him, all creatures here below;

Praise Him above, ye heavenly host;

Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost

 

[All4Christ]

Something I tell my high school Sunday school class almost every Sunday is that we are to be known by our love for one another. This stretches beyond denominational lines in my opinion.

Honestly- Love is the main path for a Christian life and for evangelism in Orthodoxy. It is the core of how we are supposed to relate to others boh in and out of the Church.

If I were to become say Eastern Orthodox I’m sure God would still use me to minister to others. I feel that call and accept that charge with my whole heart. The charge to go out and make disciples of Him.

I do wonder how far evangelism goes when it comes to Eastern Orthodox Christians.

This is a good question. Certainly, evangelism is important, as is spreading the gospel. Often, we spread it on a personal level, though there are definitely evangelistic outreaches - often to help with social needs. We also have a “Come and See” mentality...to truly experience it, it is best to come and experience it personally.

An example of a local outreach for my area is a coffee shop that donates all money to local charities, has talks for the community, priests available to talk and books to lend to the community.

Another example of the Orthodox way to evangelize is the evangelism to Russia and the surrounding area back with St Methodius, or the evangelism to Alaska. America was unique based on the immigrant communities.

This would be a great question for TAW.

I’ve always kinda pictured them as very quiet in comparison to the Protestant churches I’ve atteneded. TSA in particular is VERY boisterous when it comes to God.

Certainly, reverence is one of the most important characteristics of Orthodox services, as we are in the very presence of God. We call it the Divine Liturgy (a time dedicated to the people giving Thanks and experiencing the presence of God and communion with the Church). That said, there certainly is joy as well. Come to Pascha sometime - and you will find one of the most joyous services that I’ve ever experienced!

Only in prayer and during singing the doxology and other various times do we actually seem quiet and fully reverent. That’s actually something else I dunno if other denominations have, This doxology is recited every Sunday service:

Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow;

Praise Him, all creatures here below;

Praise Him above, ye heavenly host;

Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost

I love that hymn. As I mentioned earlier, I used to be in the Pentecostal Church - and my extended family are from the Church of the Brethren. We sing that Doxology at every family get together.

We (Orthodox) don’t have the same arrangement, but we do have some hymns with the same text (same scripture base, though different wording and melody). We do have different hymns we sing each week, as well as the the Lord’s Prayer (Our Father), creed, etc.

 

[fat wee robin]

I have never been to an Eastern Orthodox worship ,but have seen them on the net . I have been to many masses in the RCC and it was nearly always a sublime experience .I have come to realise that in these churches one gets the best collective experience of being in Heaven, worshiping a Holy and transcendant God ,while the pro- testant, is more of an intellectual relationship with the bible which gives added knowledge of God, and allows a personal interactive relationship with our Creator, as individuals .
There should be no contradiction as the old churches feed our right hand brain ,and the protestant the left hemispehere .Both need to be activated to have a complete relation with a God ,who is above us and beyond us ,and yet also close to us.
To the poster,sorry I got carried away there ,we need to be in awe of our sublime wonderful God ,who is beyond us as well as close to us . I think you will find that in the E.O.

 

[thesunisout]

My fear is gossip. Not only do my immediate family but also my biological family on my Mom's side. My parents divorced years ago and so I am used as a pawn on each side as they hate each other. I love them but going to them this early...

Actually no...their social service end is based on the idea that one won't go to Jesus on an empty stomach. TSA is highly evangelistic.

And to the people talking about fasting: I've never done that before not as a "Southern Baptist" nor as a Soldier. I know its biblical but how do I do it

I understand your dilemma, but Gods word is clear that we need to honor our elders in the church.

1 Timothy 5:7

Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine

If you are going to leave TSA you should leave it in the right way, with everything in the open from the beginning.

 

[Francis Drake]

Having read all your replies @Kajiki, I cannot help but conclude that you are in spiritual bondage to the Salvation Army.
If you cannot walk freely away without feeling guilt, then that is not God.
Not only that, but to go into ministry at your age is also doing it without real world experience.
You have years ahead of you, get out there and learn to walk with God outside of the shelter of a church organisation to lean on, otherwise your walk will be artificial.

No matter what the seminary qualification gives, it doesn't match what the Lord requires of anyone seeking such a ministry position.

1Tim3v1Trustworthy is the saying: If anyone aspires to overseership, he is desirous of a good work.
2Therefore it behooves the overseer to be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
ie. a married man with a Godly lifestyle.

3not given to wine, not a striker, but gentle, peaceable, not loving money,
Patience comes over time, with age and maturity.

4managing the own house well, having children in submission, with all dignity—
5but if one does not know how to manage the own household, how will he care for the church of God?—
The visible testimony of your marriage and family is a preparation for serving in God's family.

6not a novice, lest having been puffed up, he might fall into the judgment of the devil.
Obviously recent converts, even with the best seminary certificates, have insufficient spiritual experience to draw on.

7And it behooves him also to have a good testimony from those outside, so that he might not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

His life must be beyond reproach from non believers. If we have had no life outside of the cloisters of a church institution, how can we have a testimony from those outside, neighbours or fellow workers in industry or commerce.

In my humble opinion, the best preparation for serving the Lord is to get a job outside the church, and then pursue serving God there. As you learn to walk with God and hear his voice in the real world, it will equip you far better than any seminary can ever do.
Remember that the apostles were unlearned fishermen.

 

[Kajiki]

So I finally admitted the truth to my dad…I fear what his response may be.

“Dad. I've been having issues lately with my spiritual walk with Christ. God gave me a curiosity but it can be a curse at times. I've been praying and reading scriptures far more the past few weeks trying to understand something. I do not doubt God the Father God the Son nor God the Holy Spirit. I'm doubting the Salvation Army...Things like communion and baptism by water are biblical. Even in the Book of Acts the Apostles baptize by water after a baptism of the spirit. Communion is also a regularly practiced idea in the church. I'm not saying I am wanting to go Catholic or even Southern Baptist. Catholic due to papal infallibility which is scriptural heresy and their idea that priests have the power to forgive sins. However, after reading praying and fasting I have been feeling a pull to a different church. I don't have spiritual guidance at my corps and have not received and correspondence from officers at DHQ since labor day weekend and I have sent emails. Idont Deny my call to ministry and my passion for others but I'm questioning how much I agree with the Salvation Army's positions on sacraments and our corps in general is not a healthy place for spiritual growth...I need a pastor. I need that...The past several months I have been making the Salvation Army into an idol telling others about the Army and what it does and pitting scripture and God to the side. I feel a need to step back...I can't let the Army be an Idol....I feel like I am betraying the army and even my family by saying this....That's why I've hidden these thoughts...But it is not good to hide such things from parents. I hope you understand...I'm not going to leave the corps this week of course...But I feel the pull of the Holy Spirit and I have to do as Ananias did and say "Yes, Lord." (Acts 9:10) No matter how crazy it sounds.”
this is the text I sent him as I do not currently live with him.
Please pray for me and my family.

 

[All4Christ]

Praying for you and your family!! I understand what you are going through...similar things happened with my journey.

 

[Francis Drake]

So I finally admitted the truth to my dad…I fear what his response may be.

“Dad. I've been having issues lately with my spiritual walk with Christ. God gave me a curiosity but it can be a curse at times. I've been praying and reading scriptures far more the past few weeks trying to understand something. I do not doubt God the Father God the Son nor God the Holy Spirit. I'm doubting the Salvation Army...Things like communion and baptism by water are biblical. Even in the Book of Acts the Apostles baptize by water after a baptism of the spirit. Communion is also a regularly practiced idea in the church. I'm not saying I am wanting to go Catholic or even Southern Baptist. Catholic due to papal infallibility which is scriptural heresy and their idea that priests have the power to forgive sins. However, after reading praying and fasting I have been feeling a pull to a different church. I don't have spiritual guidance at my corps and have not received and correspondence from officers at DHQ since labor day weekend and I have sent emails. Idont Deny my call to ministry and my passion for others but I'm questioning how much I agree with the Salvation Army's positions on sacraments and our corps in general is not a healthy place for spiritual growth...I need a pastor. I need that...The past several months I have been making the Salvation Army into an idol telling others about the Army and what it does and pitting scripture and God to the side. I feel a need to step back...I can't let the Army be an Idol....I feel like I am betraying the army and even my family by saying this....That's why I've hidden these thoughts...But it is not good to hide such things from parents. I hope you understand...I'm not going to leave the corps this week of course...But I feel the pull of the Holy Spirit and I have to do as Ananias did and say "Yes, Lord." (Acts 9:10) No matter how crazy it sounds.”
this is the text I sent him as I do not currently live with him.
Please pray for me and my family.

I suspect that took great courage to write. Well done.
I have seen many people in your position having been brought up or spending years in one church. It can end up with all spiritual freedom being compromised for the sake of loyalty etc.

In reality, there are many ungodly religious spirits lurking behind the scenes of even the best churches. One of their prime jobs is to bind Christians into completely fear filled immobility as far as their personal calling is concerned.

Sometimes the only solution is to get right out into the fresh air.

Back in the 1970s I was in a strong bible teaching church. Everybody was "just waiting" for God to call them into "full time ministry".
As far as I was concerned, I was already in full time ministry in my ordinary job and family. I didn't need a title or a certificate.
A few years later, the Holy Spirit gave me an idea for a business. I started that on a shoe string budget and over a few years, knowing nothing about business, I ended up employing dozens of people.
I frequently went into work early to pray, and one of my most frequent cries was, holding my bible up into the air, "Lord, if you employ an idiot to run this business, then you are obligated to your word to tell me what to do cos I don't have a clue!"

He did guide me through dreams visions prophecies etc., and the business had an amazing influence on countless people. As far as I am concerned, I saw more of the handiwork of God at the workplace than I ever did in church.

It took me a while to realise it was an apostolic calling to industry. Because of what the Lord was doing with us, we often got requests to visit other businesses to pray and intercede for them.

 

[Myychael]

I suspect that took great courage to write. Well done.
I have seen many people in your position having been brought up or spending years in one church. It can end up with all spiritual freedom being compromised for the sake of loyalty etc.

In reality, there are many ungodly religious spirits lurking behind the scenes of even the best churches. One of their prime jobs is to bind Christians into completely fear filled immobility as far as their personal calling is concerned.

Sometimes the only solution is to get right out into the fresh air.

Back in the 1970s I was in a strong bible teaching church. Everybody was "just waiting" for God to call them into "full time ministry".
As far as I was concerned, I was already in full time ministry in my ordinary job and family. I didn't need a title or a certificate.
A few years later, the Holy Spirit gave me an idea for a business. I started that on a shoe string budget and over a few years, knowing nothing about business, I ended up employing dozens of people.
I frequently went into work early to pray, and one of my most frequent cries was, holding my bible up into the air, "Lord, if you employ an idiot to run this business, then you are obligated to your word to tell me what to do cos I don't have a clue!"

He did guide me through dreams visions prophecies etc., and the business had an amazing influence on countless people. As far as I am concerned, I saw more of the handiwork of God at the workplace than I ever did in church.

It took me a while to realise it was an apostolic calling to industry. Because of what the Lord was doing with us, we often got requests to visit other businesses to pray and intercede for them.

Sir Francis after rereading Kajiki posts i believe you hit the nail on the head i was a JW and when you get your face to close to the paper you cant read the writing you have to step back and he is brave to leave
what he is familiar with.
Deu 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

You helped me to Sir Francis i been an Evangelist,Preacher,Deacon,Choir member i always thought i had to do more and i am now just a layman visiting Churches i have just heard the Church i visited Sunday needed parking attendants I think i can handle that who would of thought help would have come from the
1500 s LOL that scripture is for me and you both Kajiki God Bless you all.And high tides to you Francis

 

[Kajiki]

So he inevitably replied…at first he said he respected it if it was a call from God. He also wanted to speak in person Saturday which of course I agreed to. Then he began saying stuff like how officers get baptized all the time (not that they baptize others btw) and he claimed that communion is not biblically proven to be practiced by the Early Church…I responded that 1st Corinthians 10 had a passage concerning just that and suddenly I’m now a intolerant person who thinks that if you don’t take communion and you don’t get baptized you are hellbound. I never said any of that mind you I only provided scripture…this is why it was so scary to do this. He also asked me when I was going to break up with my girlfriend of five months because she feels a call to ministry which she says she just wants to teach and tell others the Good News. That stung that he asked that considering how supportive shes been of me this whole time…


I have no words…


Every time at work today that I prayed to God and questioned this pull I feel I just heard this whisper, maybe it was my mind playing tricks on me, I heard “Take up your cross, and Follow Me.”

 

[Francis Drake]

Sir Francis after rereading Kajiki posts i believe you hit the nail on the head i was a JW and when you get your face to close to the paper you cant read the writing you have to step back and he is brave to leave
what he is familiar with.
Deu 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

You helped me to Sir Francis i been an Evangelist,Preacher,Deacon,Choir member i always thought i had to do more and i am now just a layman visiting Churches i have just heard the Church i visited Sunday needed parking attendants I think i can handle that who would of thought help would have come from the
1500 s LOL that scripture is for me and you both Kajiki God Bless you all.And high tides to you Francis

Thanks for that generous reply @Myychael.
High tides indeed, for all of us.
Did you read Sir Francis Drake's prayer at the bottom of all my posts. I believe it's a prayer we should all seek if we truly want to serve the Lord.