I changed my stance on gun control!!!

[renniks]

If this is the standard of responses we can expect to an obvious and patently undeniable problem, then heaven help the country.

So you are denying that your own government is restricting freedom?

 

[Bradskii]

So you are denying that your own government is restricting freedom?

As are all governments world wide - including yours. But unless you think that owning a gun would prevent that then your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So you are denying that your own government is restricting freedom?

There is certain freedom that needs to be restricted. You cannot do whatever you want. There is need for some laws.

 

[renniks]

As are all governments world wide - including yours. But unless you think that owning a gun would prevent that then your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

We already have restrictions on guns that are reasonable. I can not own one if I'm a felon for example.
And the reason for citizens being armed here was originally to keep the government in check.

 

[renniks]

There is certain freedom that needs to be restricted. You cannot do whatever you want. There is need for some laws.

Of course but Australia is off the rails, and becoming a tyrannical government.

 

[Aldebaran]

Have you ever wondered why the US is the only stable, developed Western democracy whose citizens feel the need to walk around armed?

OB

Because that's where the people understand the importance of that right enough to actually defend it.

 

[dogs4thewin]

We already have restrictions on guns that are reasonable. I can not own one if I'm a felon for example.
And the reason for citizens being armed here was originally to keep the government in check.

and actually I believe that non-violent felons should be permitted to own their gun rights back. I know that is not how it works, though.

 

[Bradskii]

What do you think those wars have to do with the subject?
And no, your country isn't free. It was once but not anymore.

I'm rather obviously, I would have thought, pointing out that in monstrously destructive wars where people are actually trying to inflict as many fatalities on each other as possible, the total deaths in three of the greatest conflicts in which America has been involved comes nowhere near the fatalities that your own population has inflicted on itself since '68.

I just can't understand why people are not shamed by this and aren't moving heaven and earth to change this horror. Why can't people who support the Second Ammendment admit that there's a problem and offer some solutions? Or admit that they have no answer? Instead we get 'well, gee - cars are dangerous too' and nonsense about 'Australian internment camps'.

 

[renniks]

and actually I believe that non-violent felons should be permitted to own their gun rights back. I know that is not how it works, though.

I agree. I worked with a guy who could not have a gun because he stole a case of beer as a teenager.

 

[Aldebaran]

Thinking that the greatest military power in history can be overthrown by untrained first world civilians with small ams is delusional.

Those who took over the CHAZ area during the Summer of Love somehow succeeded. So did those who wanted to destroy entire neighborhoods, and they managed with bricks, bottles, gasoline and fireworks.
In the process, they were able to overthrow the will of the greatest military power in history to do anything but stand back and watch.

 

[Bradskii]

Of course but Australia is off the rails, and becoming a tyrannical government.

Well guess what. In a few months time, if enough people think they're doing a bad job, we'll vote them out. Just like you did with the last guy. As opposed to, I dunno...mount an armed insurrection.

 

[renniks]

I'm rather obviously, I would have thought, pointing out that in monstrously destructive wars where people are actually trying to inflict as many fatalities on each other as possible, the total deaths in three of the greatest conflicts in which America has been involved comes nowhere near the fatalities that your own population has inflicted on itself since '68.

I just can't understand why people are not shamed by this and aren't moving heaven and earth to change this horror. Why can't people who support the Second Ammendment admit that there's a problem and offer some solutions? Or admit that they have no answer? Instead we get 'well, gee - cars are dangerous too' and nonsense about 'Australian internment camps'.

Only it's not nonsense.
Most people that are killed with guns in the US are not killed by legally owned guns. I agree that gang violence is a real problem and gun control is never going to change that. Instead, we should perhaps arm the law abiding people in the gang infested areas.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I'm rather obviously, I would have thought, pointing out that in monstrously destructive wars where people are actually trying to inflict as many fatalities on each other as possible, the total deaths in three of the greatest conflicts in which America has been involved comes nowhere near the fatalities that your own population has inflicted on itself since '68.

I just can't understand why people are not shamed by this and aren't moving heaven and earth to change this horror. Why can't people who support the Second Ammendment admit that there's a problem and offer some solutions? Or admit that they have no answer? Instead we get 'well, gee - cars are dangerous too' and nonsense about 'Australian internment camps'.

Except that the vast majority of gun deaths are either A by someone's own hand B in the commission of another crime such as robbery or C among people who are involved in other criminal behavior among themselves selling drugs or in gangs. There are VERY few truly random shootings and even fewer truly random mass shootings. ( usually defined as 4+ people shot in a single incident.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Only it's not nonsense.
Most people that are killed with guns in the US are not killed by legally owned guns. I agree that gang violence is a real problem and gun control is never going to change that. Instead, we should perhaps arm the law abiding people in the gang infested areas.

If they choose to I have no problem with people choosing not to carry guns ( even though I would have my motor skills and eyesight allowed it due to my CP neither does. I do not like our current sheriff but he would have to be a sure enough fool to issue me a CCW.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I agree. I worked with a guy who could not have a gun because he stole a case of beer as a teenager.

that does not sound like it should have even been a felony.

 

[Bradskii]

Only it's not nonsense.
Most people that are killed with guns in the US are not killed by legally owned guns.

I'm afraid they are. Most deaths are suicide. Sixty percent. Why didn't you check?

I eagerly await your arguments against the availability of rope and access to tall structures.

 

[renniks]

that does not sound like it should have even been a felony.

It was in his state.

"ROBBERY CHARGES IN PENNSYLVANIA. If you have been arrested for robbery the penalties in Pennsylvania are very serious, as any type of robbery is considered a felony. A robbery is considered a violent crime and involves harming, or threatening to harm, someone by using physical force or a weapon."

 

[renniks]

I'm afraid they are. Most deaths are suicide. Sixty percent. Why didn't you check?

I eagerly await your arguments against the availability of rope and access to tall structures.

If a person chooses to kill themselves, the gun is certainly irrelevant. People around here seem to like hanging themselves for some reason even though everyone has guns. I don't understand it.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I'm afraid they are. Most deaths are suicide. Sixty percent. Why didn't you check?

I eagerly await your arguments against the availability of rope and access to tall structures.

actually higher than that for suicide, but I read that comment as being most gun violence ( which to me suicide should not be in the violence catogry as even though it is very sad most people who complete suicide are not looking to hurt anyone else ( at least not in a violence sense.

 

[Aldebaran]

It was in his state.

"ROBBERY CHARGES IN PENNSYLVANIA. If you have been arrested for robbery the penalties in Pennsylvania are very serious, as any type of robbery is considered a felony. A robbery is considered a violent crime and involves harming, or threatening to harm, someone by using physical force or a weapon."

You said he was a teenager at the time. I think juvenille records are sealed once a person turns 18.