I changed my stance on gun control!!!

[dogs4thewin]

As I said in post 29 I think the US gun problem is a lost cause. There are far too many guns in circulation and I hear the numbers are going up. Given the American attitude to guns, the chances of a voluntary solution through regulation or reduced numbers is somewhere between zero and nothing.

OB

yup it is going up and yet most people never fire a gun at another person.

 

[dogs4thewin]

And now you have detainment camps for unvaccinated people....

Where? Never mind I thought you were talking about here.

 

[Always in His Presence]

There was no '1996 ban on violent crime'. In 1996 gun laws were changed and a million guns were (largely voluntarily) removed from circulation and crushed. As you have noted above, the result was a reduction in gun related violence.

I have no idea why you are talking about non-gun related crime rates but I note that you provided no links to support your claims.

OB

Gun VIOLENCE went down - VIOLENT crime did not.

From your own government:

https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/tandi359.pdf

Homicide rates basically flatlined and in 2002 went up from the times guns were available. If you read the link. Virtually every type of violent crime also either flatlined or rose.

While gun violence was lowered - violence in other forms rose and that is why the rates stayed almost exactly the same.

 

[comana]

Again a person either can be trusted with a gun or they cannot. Those who can do not need theregulations those who cannot do not care. Moreover 2/3 gun deaths in this country are by the shooter's own had that sounds like a mental health issue not a violence issue.

Still supports the concept that 300 million guns in the US is not beneficial to our societies well being.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Still supports the concept that 300 million guns in the US is not beneficial to our societies well being.

guns by themselves do nothing. I can have one gun in my house or I could have 100 guns in my house and nothing will happen unless and until I ( or some other human being fire a shot.

 

[hedrick]

Responding specifically to the OP: Guns are not a practical approach for individuals to protect themselves against police misbehavior. Shooting a policeman will almost surely result in death or imprisonment. They might be useful if things got bad enough that there was a revolution, but that's not a likely scenario in the US.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Thinking that the greatest military power in history can be overthrown by untrained first world civilians with small ams is delusional.

It would never be that simple, that the military would remain intact if there was an all out rebellion. Possibly a large portion of the military would turn against itself in such a situation.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Responding specifically to the OP: Guns are not a practical approach for individuals to protect themselves against police misbehavior. Shooting a policeman will almost surely result in death or imprisonment. They might be useful if things got bad enough that there was a revolution, but that's not a likely scenario in the US.

But they are a very effective and practical approach for protecting individuals against criminals who seek to do you harm.

 

[comana]

guns by themselves do nothing. I can have one gun in my house or I could have 100 guns in my house and nothing will happen unless and until I ( or some other human being fire a shot.

Right, the old guns don’t kill people, people kill people trope. It’s true that there are many many ways to kill that don’t involve a gun but having one in hand makes it so much easier to kill with less effort. 300 million and more guns is not something to be proud of.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Right, the old guns don’t kill people, people kill people trope. It’s true that there are many many ways to kill that don’t involve a gun but having one in hand makes it so much easier to kill with less effort. 300 million and more guns is not something to be proud of.

More people are killed by cars each year than guns..

I guess cars are not something to be proud of either.

 

[dogs4thewin]

More people are killed by cars each year than guns..

I guess cars are not something to be proud of either.

and most gun deaths are by the person's own hand, anyway. It is sad I am not saying otherwise, but I am saying that that is not a VIOLENCE issue that is a mental health issue.

 

[Always in His Presence]

and most gun deaths are by the person's own hand, anyway. It is sad I am not saying otherwise, but I am saying that that is not a VIOLENCE issue that is a mental health issue.

QFT

 

[comana]

More people are killed by cars each year than guns..

I guess cars are not something to be proud of either.

Driving skills in the US are abysmal. We should not be proud of that either.

 

[comana]

and most gun deaths are by the person's own hand, anyway. It is sad I am not saying otherwise, but I am saying that that is not a VIOLENCE issue that is a mental health issue.

It doesn’t help to make their own means of death readily available either.

Mental health is not taken seriously in the US and that needs to change but that discussion is for another thread.

 

[durangodawood]

Here's what the 2nd amendment says:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It's one sentence with two complete thoughts.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State
A complete thought

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
complete thought.

It does not say "the rights of the militia to keep arms shall not be infringed.

the rights of the PEOPLE.

Except then we infringe upon it in ways pretty much every agrees on. Go figure.

 

[Bradskii]

Stable, free countries? I guess that depends on one's defination of freedom.
And we are armed because that's what our founders wanted.

Gimme a break. Countries that have reasonable restrictions on gun ownership are therefore not free? If that's how you define it then God help America. And your founding fathers would weep with shame if they knew the carnage that their requirement for a standing militia (as a standing army was not considered in the same light then as it is now) had caused. A shocking 620,000 died in the Civil War. 520,000 in both world wars. Those figures are depressing - over 1.1 million in total. And how many gun deaths in the US since just 1968? Fifty percent higher - over 1.6 million. Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia

You dare to talk of freedom with a figure like that?

 

[Occams Barber]

Gun VIOLENCE went down - VIOLENT crime did not.

From your own government:

https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/tandi359.pdf

View attachment 309366

Homicide rates basically flatlined and in 2002 went up from the times guns were available. If you read the link. Virtually every type of violent crime also either flatlined or rose.

While gun violence was lowered - violence in other forms rose and that is why the rates stayed almost exactly the same.

This is the homicide RATE from 1990 to 2021. Homicide RATE takes into account the significant population increase over 30 years. The gun buy back scheme was in 1997 and legal changes took until 2003 to pass in each State. Do you see the downward trend from about 1999?

Australia Murder/Homicide Rate 1990-2021 | MacroTrends
OB

 

[renniks]

guns by themselves do nothing. I can have one gun in my house or I could have 100 guns in my house and nothing will happen unless and until I ( or some other human being fire a shot.

Exactly.

 

[Bradskii]

More people are killed by cars each year than guns..I guess cars are not something to be proud of either.

And now you have detainment camps for unvaccinated people....

If this is the standard of responses we can expect to an obvious and patently undeniable problem, then heaven help the country.

 

[renniks]

Gimme a break. Countries that have reasonable restrictions on gun ownership are therefore not free? If that's how you define it then God help America. And your founding fathers would weep with shame if they knew the carnage that their requirement for a standing militia (as a standing army was not considered in the same light then as it is now) had caused. A shocking 620,000 died in the Civil War. 520,000 in both world wars. Those figures are depressing - over 1.1 million in total. And how many gun deaths in the US since just 1968? Fifty percent higher - over 1.6 million. Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia

You dare to talk of freedom with a figure like that?

What do you think those wars have to do with the subject?
And no, your country isn't free. It was once but not anymore.