I changed my stance on gun control!!!

[Aldebaran]

After the Port Arthur massacre, some weapons were made illegal. There was then an amnesty when gun owners could hand in their now illegal guns and any others they felt they didn't need (and get paid for them). Both sides of the political divide supported this at a federal and state level and the public was overwhelmingly supportive.

Some were made illegal?
"Semi-automatic rifles and shotguns were prohibited, with a few exceptions, all firearms were required to be registered, a proof of reason would be required for all gun-licence applicants and gun purchases, with self-defence not considered a reason. Licenses would be reviewed, and ammunition sales were to be restricted to those licensed for the specific firearm. A national integrated registry was to be formed.

Notably, the reforms included a buyback of semi-automatic weapons and guns from owners no longer qualified to possess them. About 650,000 guns were destroyed, as part of the reforms that cost $500m."
How Australia’s global gold standard on gun control is being eroded

 

[Astrid]

Happy Valley for a couple of years around 1980. I was working on the MTR when it was being built.

That is a good part of town! Not too far from Central, upper income.

At this time I am in Tai Po.

 

[Jamdoc]

They do. And I can't wait for this pandemic to be over so I can get back there myself. My visa still has two years on it. Now I've been around the traps a fair bit. I've seen my fair share of countries. Just shy of fifty at the last count. Most of them experienced with my wife. And there have been a couple of very rare occasions times when I have felt that maybe we were in the wrong part of town at the wrong time and it might be the smart thing to do to head for somewhere a little busier. Somewhere that felt a little safer. But we never felt that in the US. Not once. And I'm not talking about a week or two. We've been there for months.

But you? You can't sleep in your own bed without a loaded weapon alongside you. Without practicing what to do if armed men invade your home. It's a war zone mentality.

I suppose nobody should have a first aid kit on hand or know how to do CPR, because you can't be expecting people to have heart attacks or have injuries right?
only if you're especially prone to having injuries and heart attacks would you ever need those skills and supplies.

..come on man. you take things like that as a precaution hoping that you'll never need them.
but if you do need them, better to have them than need it and not have it.
This is life and death scenarios.

 

[Bradskii]

I suppose nobody should have a first aid kit on hand or know how to do CPR, because you can't be expecting people to have heart attacks or have injuries right?
only if you're especially prone to having injuries and heart attacks would you ever need those skills and supplies.

..come on man. you take things like that as a precaution hoping that you'll never need them.
but if you do need them, better to have them than need it and not have it.
This is life and death scenarios.

Only in America...

 

[Aldebaran]

Only in America...

If Americans are the only people who care about preparing for things, then no wonder it's America that comes to the rescue when disasters happen in other countries. We're the only ones with the ability to.

 

[Bradskii]

If Americans are the only people who care about preparing for things, then no wonder it's America that comes to the rescue when disasters happen in other countries. We're the only ones with the ability to.

I honestly wish you could deal with the disaster within your own borders.

 

[Aldebaran]

I honestly wish you could deal with the disaster within your own borders.

Maybe when the next election comes.
Meanwhile, some of us are pretending we don't even have borders.

 

[zelosravioli]

Have you ever wondered why the US is the only stable, developed Western democracy whose citizens feel the need to walk around armed?

OB

Have you ever wondered how it might be that the US is the only country holding democracy in place ? If there was no United States, or specifically United States military might - democracy could disappear in weeks, China and Russia, could roll right over our allies like Germany Italy France and Israel (although I am glad they are building up).

So - The fact that so many United States citizens are armed, discourages oppressive govt leaders to try and disarm the only seriously armed and able bodied western nation in the world. If the United States citizens gave up their guns, there is no one left to protect the only worthwhile western military in the world from being over run by a tyrannical oppressive govt.

 

[Occams Barber]

Have you ever wondered why the US is the only country holding democracy in place - because no other country has the backbone or sense to be ready to defend our liberty and the sense to protect liberty with a strong military, in other words being armed?
If there was no US military might - democracy could disappear in weeks, China and Russia, could roll right over our allies like Germany Italy France and Israel (although I am glad they are building up)
The fact that so many United States citizens are armed, discourages oppressive govt leaders to try and disarm the only seriously armed and able bodied western nation in the world. If the United States citizens gave up their guns, there is no one left to protect the only worthwhile western military in the world from being over run by a tyrannical oppressive govt.

If you believe that armed civilians are needed to protect your military and prevent the US from being run over by a tyrannical oppressive foreign government, you obviously have a poor opinion of US military capability.

OB

 

[zelosravioli]

I do have an extensive understanding of military history and political revolt...

A war here against an oppressive govt wont be fought shooting ASMs and SSMs at Philadelphia, Boston, or Miami or having F22s attack Reno and San Francisco, it is would be a street battle - with hand held guns.

'If citizens weren't armed at all there would be no need for our military to use much if any military weapons at all - in other words unarmed citizens cant put up much of a fight. Arm the citizens and there will be a fight'

'An attempted disarmament of citizens, or hostile oppression here (or any place with a well armed citizenry) would cause an on going guerrilla type 'street warfare' which when enough people are engaged is virtually impossible to stop - and its not stopped with tanks or aircraft...'

 

[Bradskii]

... it is would be a street battle - with hand held guns.

Ah, back in Fantasy Land again I see. So are you up for this battle, zelo? You keen on taking up arms against the government? Who is organising it in your area? Who is issuing the instruction to go? Who is deciding on the tactics? Who is coordinating this? How many people in your group? Where is your training being done? What equipment have you got? Which objectives do you deem most important? Have you got medics? How many people do you know will actually kill a fellow citizen? What means do you have for communication? What lines of command do you have? Where is your command centre?

I'm in the middle of breakfast at the moment so I can't be bothered typing out another few dozen questions. But those will do for now. Let me know your answers as soon as you're ready.

 

[JohnPaul88]

I used to own a bunch of guns. I ended up in a situation where I could not store them so I end up having my lawyer dispose of them.

After 5 or so years of being gun-free, I became more sympathetic to the gun control crowd. I had no guns but I felt pretty safe anyway with 911 only minutes away, where I live so easy for police to mop up the criminals.

Recently I heard a question asked.....Who do you call when the police are criminals? Then I read a quote by Washington the said (paraphrase) There should be a rebellion every 20 years or so.

That made me think of the context the Constitution was written in. We need law-abiding citizens to own guns because we have a right to self-defense. Whether it's from a criminal or a totalitarian government, we need to be able to overthrow the government if need be. That is what Washington was saying.

I don't think we are anywhere near the point where we need to rise up, but we need to be able to if we get some Fascist in office suspends the Constitution or tries to dissolve our rights.


We have 2,000 laws about guns. No more gun laws......Agree or disagree......

Discuss.........

I agree that we need more law abiding citizens to be able to carry guns, here in New Jersey it’s almost impossible to get a gun license, it’s only easy for the criminals because they don’t abide by the law and therefore don’t apply for a gun permit but just buy the guns illegally on the street.

 

[dqhall]

I keep my guns and ammo for one reason..... Between now and the Rapture I have no idea what is going to happen in the US of A. What I will not allow to happen is lawlessness beating down my door and inflicting violence on me and my family. That happens... there will be some dead people. I will protect me and mine.

In this day and age, I can't even fathom anyone getting rid of their guns. Heck, more Democrats (traditionally anti-gun) have purchased firearms in the past four years than ever in our nation's history.


......

Matthew 26:52” Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.“

 

[zelosravioli]

Ah, back in Fantasy Land again I see. So are you up for this battle, zelo? You keen on taking up arms against the government? Who is organising it in your area? Who is issuing the instruction to go? Who is deciding on the tactics? Who is coordinating this? How many people in your group? Where is your training being done? What equipment have you got? Which objectives do you deem most important?...

Its fantasy to think war couldnt possibly happen here, or that winning such a war here couldn't be done, (or that its not worth it?), because all world history proves the opposite.
Everywhere in the world, ever, since the dawn of history - all the greatest empires in the world have had wars, fallen at some point, and or, also been taken over by despots and dictators. But that will never happen here, and it couldnt be stopped or won, OK.

Two; do some research on revolutions and guerrilla warfare, its simple to see it works - people can often organize quickly, effectively and be successful against professional armies. The outcome of war is unpredictable, but the outcome is quite predictable if your not prepared or willing to fight.

"... Who is coordinating this? What equipment have you got? "
Why should I tell you, and whos side or you on anyways? As long as I'm alive I can do something...

 

[Bradskii]

Its fantasy to think war couldnt possibly happen here, or that winning such a war here couldn't be done, (or that its not worth it?), because all world history proves the opposite.
Everywhere in the world, ever, since the dawn of history - all the greatest empires in the world have had wars, fallen at some point, and or, also been taken over by despots and dictators. But that will never happen here, and it couldnt be stopped or won, OK.

Two; do some research on revolutions and guerrilla warfare, its simple to see it works - people can often organize quickly, effectively and be successful against professional armies. The outcome of war is unpredictable, but the outcome is quite predictable if your not prepared or willing to fight.

And whos side would 'you' be on, thats what matters the most.

Then answer some of the questions I asked if you could. Let's see how you deal with the practicalities of an armed uprising against the US government. I'm not interested in what others might have done. I want to know what you would do.

 

[Aldebaran]

Its fantasy to think war couldnt possibly happen here, or that winning such a war here couldn't be done, (or that its not worth it?), because all world history proves the opposite.
Everywhere in the world, ever, since the dawn of history - all the greatest empires in the world have had wars, fallen at some point, and or, also been taken over by despots and dictators. But that will never happen here, and it couldnt be stopped or won, OK.

Two; do some research on revolutions and guerrilla warfare, its simple to see it works - people can often organize quickly, effectively and be successful against professional armies. The outcome of war is unpredictable, but the outcome is quite predictable if your not prepared or willing to fight.

And whos side would 'you' be on, thats what matters the most.

A large part of how it's done is that people with simple armaments such as pistols and rifles use them to then take larger weapons from the superior forces. It's an idea that produced the Liberator pistol in World War 2, to be dropped in large numbers behind enemy lines to friendlies to use against the enemy to then take their better weapons. The Liberator was made at only $2 each. What American citizens already have is far superior to those.
For anyone who will say, "Are you telling me that a person with a pistol is going to attack a military base and steal all their nukes?", there are far more practical items, and there are veterans who already know how to use a Humvee, a tank, and other items the military has that the public doesn't already have access to. Look what happened in Iraq. When we attacked them, the country fell apart and military weapon storage areas were looted by the general public--some of whom had knowledge about how to use those things.

 

[zelosravioli]

Then answer some of the questions I asked if you could. Let's see how you deal with the practicalities of an armed uprising against the US government. I'm not interested in what others might have done. I want to know what you would do.

Again "... Who is coordinating this? What equipment have you got? "
Why should I tell you... and whos side are you on anyways?

 

[zelosravioli]

A large part of how it's done is that people with simple armaments such as pistols and rifles use them to then take larger weapons from the superior forces. It's an idea that produced the Liberator pistol in World War 2, to be dropped in large numbers behind enemy lines...

So true. Note most all military personnel are issued a pistol or rifle, and most all carry one in battle, from tank commanders, air force pilots, even sailors have pistols on board, why because that is how you protect your main defenses - and its been said, your primary defenses protect your pistols.

Generally, and in many cases a battle is changed by a couple of well placed strategic sniper and or rifle shots. How often a huge battle can boil down to a couple of combatants holding a hand gun or rifle on the adversary or leader.

Not to mention as you did, small arms are most effective and often used for heists, espionage, and general chaos...

 

[Bradskii]

Again "... Who is coordinating this? What equipment have you got? "
Why should I tell you... and whos side are you on anyways?

It's not that you shouldn't tell me. It's that you can't. It's a fantasy. And I am seriously going to recommend that you do not make any attempts whatsoever to make it less of a fantasy. Since 9/11 and the Patriot Act, Joe Public is under more surveilance than at any time before. Now, whether you think it's a good thing to be protected against terrorists or not is up to you. But anyone declaring an interest in being involved in armed attacks on government buildings or personnel (and that would inlcude any threats againt the armed services) would be classed as such. And dealt with appropriately.

This fantasy you and others have that it's a matter of just getting a few buddies together and bring down the most heavily weaponised army which has ever existed is farcical. Steal their weapons and a tank or two? Really? Do you think this is some web based point and shoot game?

Want to get into some extremely serious trouble? Send some emails to a few like minded friends. Tell them that some dumb Aussie has asked all these questions about what you could do and how you'd do it. And maybe you all ought to get together to discuss it. You know, lines of communication, potential targets, weapons caches. Set up a whatsupp group or whatever you feel would be most useful.

Tell us when you start, we'll have the chance to say goodbye and we can count the days before your account goes quiet. Seditious conspiracy is likely what you'd be charged with and that gets you up to 20 years in the big house.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's not that you shouldn't tell me. It's that you can't. It's a fantasy. And I am seriously going to recommend that you do not make any attempts whatsoever to make it less of a fantasy. Since 9/11 and the Patriot Act, Joe Public is under more surveilance than at any time before. Now, whether you think it's a good thing to be protected against terrorists or not is up to you. But anyone declaring an interest in being involved in armed attacks on government buildings or personnel (and that would inlcude any threats againt the armed services) would be classed as such. And dealt with appropriately.

This fantasy you and others have that it's a matter of just getting a few buddies together and bring down the most heavily weaponised army which has ever existed is farcical. Steal their weapons and a tank or two? Really? Do you think this is some web based point and shoot game?

Want to get into some extremely serious trouble? Send some emails to a few like minded friends. Tell them that some dumb Aussie has asked all these questions about what you could do and how you'd do it. And maybe you all ought to get together to discuss it. You know, lines of communication, potential targets, weapons caches. Set up a whatsupp group or whatever you feel would be most useful.

Tell us when you start, we'll have the chance to say goodbye and we can count the days before your account goes quiet. Seditious conspiracy is likely what you'd be charged with and that gets you up to 20 years in the big house.

You've built up quite a strawman here.