I Challenge all Believers to...

[juvenissun]

That's a poor analogy. In your analogy there's proof. There's the thing my father bought me, and I'm assuming I witnessed him giving it to me.

Whether or not something happening is the "answer" to a prayer is debatable...even amongst christians. Even if all agreed it was an "answer" you would still have no way of knowing who did the answering.

If a prayer answered or not may be debatable to observers. But it is not to the one who prayed.

If prayer is answered once, it might be debatable to the person. But if it is answered multiple times and is continuing, then there will be no mistake about it.

Do you read: God will give and give abundantly? That is what it is. If you are a Christian and you pray for something, you better be sensitive about it and can tell if the answer is fortuitous or is real. Even Gideon tested God three times.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If a prayer answered or not may be debatable to observers. But it is not to the one who prayed.

If prayer is answered once, it might be debatable to the person. But if it is answered multiple times and is continuing, then there will be no mistake about it.

Do you read: God will give and give abundantly? That is what it is. If you are a Christian and you pray for something, you better be sensitive about it and can tell if the answer is fortuitous or is real. Even Gideon tested God three times.

Ok...so...you didn't do the challenge?

Instead, you decided that god answered your prayer several times. I'm sure you know that's not the same thing. If you're not interested in doing it you could've just said so or not posted.

 

[juvenissun]

Ok...so...you didn't do the challenge?

Instead, you decided that god answered your prayer several times. I'm sure you know that's not the same thing. If you're not interested in doing it you could've just said so or not posted.

The reason I am telling you this is because they are exactly the same thing. I am not going to stop because I want it to continue. I have tested it and I know for sure it is true. Why should I stop?

You want people to test it. I have done it and I am telling you the results.

 

[PsychoSarah]

What you mean to say it that all people once HAD original sin. Most Christian have done something about it.

Thought one had to die before sins were washed away?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Well, to be honest, you really don't have to ignore yours or anyone else's needs for a year. Honestly, it's not as if when you need something you pray for it then you're done...is it?

Pretty much it is yes. If I have an actual need I pray and the need is satisfied.

I'm sure other's would appreciate you actually helping them in their needs as well...not just praying.

I'm only one human and my ability to provide for the needs of others is very limited but I would surely offer whatever I can to help. I don't find other people capable of actually helping me very much when I am in need. not that they are unwilling to help they just don't seem to have the means to do so.

What's the point? To see if you know. I'm sure you believe, I don't doubt you think you know...but these aren't the same as having proof.

To see if I know what? What exactly do you expect me to have proof of by not asking God for anything over the course of a year? Proof that I can actually go a year without asking God for something? You are correct in saying I think I know, and I believe that I could do that but why would I want to? What would motivate me to wish to prove it? And if i was wrong and i couldn't go a year without asking God for something would that prove anything useful?

BTW I do want to thank you for bringing this subject up. I know it has made me examine just how I pray and why I pray in the manner I do pray. I have even changed my opinion about prayer that involves asking God for things even asking God for things I believe I don't need to ask Him for. I used to think it was rather silly and pointless and wasting God's time to ask God for the things I thought I could acquire on my own, but your question and the responses you got have made me reexamine that and now I think it is actually a very good and even necessary thing for a Christian to do this.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Thought one had to die before sins were washed away?

One already did. That's the point whole of Christianity.

 

[PsychoSarah]

One already did. That's the point whole of Christianity.

Yes, but I thought one had to die a Christian first before the sins were washed away.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yes, but I thought one had to die a Christian first before the sins were washed away.

Maybe some Christians believe that, I don't know, but as for me my sins are constantly being washed away. Perhaps you, or they if you heard this from some Christian, are confusing when sin is washed away (i'e' whenever we ask for forgiveness) with the idea that death is the end of the sinning itself. The dead AFAIK cease to sin. Then again there are alot of Christians that would like to tell you once one is saved they don't sin anymore. Either I'm not saved or they are mistaken about that.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yes, but I thought one had to die a Christian first before the sins were washed away.

One further thought on this. There is very little that all Christians agree on. There are whole libraries of books that have been written dealing with subjects on which we disagree but only a few paragraphs in total that sum up what we are in total agreement on. These are the Creeds. Even then some that call themselves Christian have a problem with some of the things testified to in some of those Creeds.

 

[OakHarborMama]

I stopped going to church for over a year when my husband was in the military and was deployed overseas. We have two boys with autism and they are very hard to control, especially when they were as young as they were during my husband's deployment. The church we went to did not have child care. Well, they did but not for them. The nursery workers could not handle them. So I did not go for a year and seven months and I stopped praying too. Then I became a heavy drinker. Those were some dark times for me.

I realized that being angry at God and the church does more harm than good. Now I'm back to going to church. I actually don't like it as much as I used to but that's because we have a different pastor and I liked the previous pastor better. Long story. I'm looking for a new church to go to now.

I guess that being a believer is something that does not leave you if you genuinely are one. During the time I was gone from church I felt the Holy Spirit nudging me to go back in some shape or form, even during my drunken hazes. I'm just glad that part of my life is over and done with. My husband is retired and our boys are bigger and much more manageable.

I'm sure there have been other "believers" in the past that have taken you up on your challenge and stopped praying and going to church for a year and they left, but then again there are also many instances of pastors, preachers, priests, etc, who actively participated in church and they still let as well.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The reason I am telling you this is because they are exactly the same thing. I am not going to stop because I want it to continue. I have tested it and I know for sure it is true. Why should I stop?

You want people to test it. I have done it and I am telling you the results.

Well, what I'm proposing is a chance to see if something you believe is true. You believe god answers your prayers. I'm assuming that what you asked for in prayer is something that can happen naturally...you're not asking him to give you the ability to open your front door with your mind. How can you know that what you're asking for isn't just happening and it wouldn't happen if you stopped praying? All you would have to do is stop for a length of time that would reasonably allow this thing to happen on it's own if indeed it were happening on it's own. I don't know if this would prove anything (because I don't know what you're requesting) but at the very least it could be evidence that what you believe is true.

What you're saying is that you know your prayers are being answered because you've made the same request several times and it's happened most every (?) time. The thing is though.. you just believe your prayers are being answered...you have no way of knowing unless you stop requesting the same thing of god (preferably you stop making any request of god). If I wanted to, I could ask god to make the sun rise every morning and then after 100 days I could claim that god has granted the exact same prayer 100 days in a row without fail. That wouldn't be the truth though, because if I don't ask for the sun to rise the next morning and the sun rises anyway (as suns typically do) then I have to at least accept the possibility that my prayers had nothing to do at all with the sun rising. I can believe without checking (as you do) but I cannot know.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Pretty much it is yes. If I have an actual need I pray and the need is satisfied.

I'm only one human and my ability to provide for the needs of others is very limited but I would surely offer whatever I can to help. I don't find other people capable of actually helping me very much when I am in need. not that they are unwilling to help they just don't seem to have the means to do so.

To see if I know what? What exactly do you expect me to have proof of by not asking God for anything over the course of a year? Proof that I can actually go a year without asking God for something? You are correct in saying I think I know, and I believe that I could do that but why would I want to? What would motivate me to wish to prove it? And if i was wrong and i couldn't go a year without asking God for something would that prove anything useful?

BTW I do want to thank you for bringing this subject up. I know it has made me examine just how I pray and why I pray in the manner I do pray. I have even changed my opinion about prayer that involves asking God for things even asking God for things I believe I don't need to ask Him for. I used to think it was rather silly and pointless and wasting God's time to ask God for the things I thought I could acquire on my own, but your question and the responses you got have made me reexamine that and now I think it is actually a very good and even necessary thing for a Christian to do this.

You said this...

"Pretty much it is yes. If I have an actual need I pray and the need is satisfied. "

Maybe you didn't think about it very hard, but no...this isn't the way it works. If you have a need, for example you're hungry and need to eat, you don't pray and food magically appears. You, just like everyone else, get up and either make yourself some food or go and buy some. I don't think you'd claim that god is delivering food to your doorstep, nor would I believe you if you were claiming that. Of course, maybe you also have a different understanding of the word "need". I was using it to refer to things that you actually need.

I know you can't help everyone. Part of being an adult is knowing how to prioritize the important things in your life. While you may not be able to personally help each person who asks for help in your life...you can help some. As for praying for the others, I wouldn't worry about it much. You can always come on CF and ask the people here to pray for those you can't personally help. I know this because I've seen others do it many many times.

You said, "To see if I know what?". I thought this was pretty obvious. To see if your prayers have a noticeable effect on your life. I'm sure you believe they do...but here's your big chance to "know". Also there's no need to thank me in helping with your understanding of prayer. I'm always glad to help, and if you accept my challenge you just may understand even more!

 

[PsychoSarah]

I stopped going to church for over a year when my husband was in the military and was deployed overseas. We have two boys with autism and they are very hard to control, especially when they were as young as they were during my husband's deployment. The church we went to did not have child care. Well, they did but not for them. The nursery workers could not handle them. So I did not go for a year and seven months and I stopped praying too. Then I became a heavy drinker. Those were some dark times for me.

I realized that being angry at God and the church does more harm than good. Now I'm back to going to church. I actually don't like it as much as I used to but that's because we have a different pastor and I liked the previous pastor better. Long story. I'm looking for a new church to go to now.

I guess that being a believer is something that does not leave you if you genuinely are one. During the time I was gone from church I felt the Holy Spirit nudging me to go back in some shape or form, even during my drunken hazes. I'm just glad that part of my life is over and done with. My husband is retired and our boys are bigger and much more manageable.

I'm sure there have been other "believers" in the past that have taken you up on your challenge and stopped praying and going to church for a year and they left, but then again there are also many instances of pastors, preachers, priests, etc, who actively participated in church and they still let as well.

Nah, there are believers who become atheists or agnostics (Darwin went to school to be a priest, but his own observations and discoveries left him agnostic at the end), and the reverse also happens.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Ana the Ist,

For me personally, you are asking me to stop loving and stop talking to my Heavenly Father. You are asking me to stop expressing my love and gratitude toward Him. I think it would be easier for you to ask me to stop breathing altogether. It's not just something I do, it's a part of who I am as a Christian. I have spent many years without God being in my life and I simply don't want to go back. I have experienced His presence, His grace, His mercy and His blessings upon my life too often to ever want to forsake Him again. He has been so incredibly merciful and gracious toward me that I could never turn away from Him again. Therefore, I personally cannot accept your challenge but have to humbly decline.

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

This is an easy question to answer, so I'll start here. How would I know? Because what he said and what I'm asking are two different things. Here's what he said...

"Would you agree to ignore and cut off all communication with someone you have an extremely close and loving relationship with for a year just as an experiment for the amusement of a stranger on the internet? I guess, No I would not."

Did I say ignore and cut off all communication? Absolutely not. I said stop praying. I meant "praying" in the common meaning of the term (you know, the meaning that's used 99% of the time here on CF) which is "to request/ask/petition for something of god". It seems that suddenly all of the believer respondents have decided I meant something else entirely...so I'm clearing that up now.

I'm not asking you to stop communicating with god. You can talk about whatever you like with him. I'm asking you to stop making requests of god. The only reason I brought up not going to church is because I thought it would be much much easier to not ask things of god if you didn't go. If however, you can attend church without requesting things of god, by all means...attend.


Do you see the difference now? He read the challenge in the OP, then he refused to try and do something else entirely....something that had nothing to do with the challenge at all. I hope this clears things up...with all respect.

Praying is communicating with God.

 

[Lollerskates]

.

 

[juvenissun]

Well, what I'm proposing is a chance to see if something you believe is true. You believe god answers your prayers. I'm assuming that what you asked for in prayer is something that can happen naturally...you're not asking him to give you the ability to open your front door with your mind. How can you know that what you're asking for isn't just happening and it wouldn't happen if you stopped praying? All you would have to do is stop for a length of time that would reasonably allow this thing to happen on it's own if indeed it were happening on it's own. I don't know if this would prove anything (because I don't know what you're requesting) but at the very least it could be evidence that what you believe is true.

What you're saying is that you know your prayers are being answered because you've made the same request several times and it's happened most every (?) time. The thing is though.. you just believe your prayers are being answered...you have no way of knowing unless you stop requesting the same thing of god (preferably you stop making any request of god). If I wanted to, I could ask god to make the sun rise every morning and then after 100 days I could claim that god has granted the exact same prayer 100 days in a row without fail. That wouldn't be the truth though, because if I don't ask for the sun to rise the next morning and the sun rises anyway (as suns typically do) then I have to at least accept the possibility that my prayers had nothing to do at all with the sun rising. I can believe without checking (as you do) but I cannot know.

This once proves that Christianity is a personal belief and the Christian God is a personal God. I can only tell you what God does to me. I can not let you, or any other Christian, really understand it.

This only makes a perfect sense. It should be this way.

 

[znr]

I have, unknowingly, taken the challenge several times--if we're counting VERBAL prayers--I consider those that pass through my mind to sometimes be involuntary. In all cases when I stopped verbally asking for things I needed (and wanted: money, food, "stuff") did not stop showing up, but my level of peace and calm was negatively affected--I became more fearful and skittish than usual. During the periods of time I stopped praying I didn't experience any other lack.

What I'm curious about is why (if at all) it matters to you whether we pray (for stuff)? How does your challenge affect your life directly?

It's occured to me that you're just passing time and this thread is like part of a hobby to you--which is not an accusation at all.

Well let me ask you this then...if you think prayer affects your life in some way (in any way really) do you think not praying would change your life in some way? Do you think that not praying would have a result?

Maybe now you see where I'm going with this? If you answer, "no...my life wouldn't change at all." then it seems like you think prayer really has no effect on your life. If you answer, "yes...my life would change in some way, even if I'm not entirely sure in which ways it will change." then why not stop praying and find out for sure? See if you know. You can always go back to praying...can't you?

The part about not going to church is really just to avoid praying. I would imagine it would be rather difficult and awkward to be going to church but not praying. Of course, if you believe church has some measurable or noticeable effect on your life (I'm not just speaking about a sense of community here either...what I mean is some "supernatural" effect) then I would encourage you to see if that effect remains, disappears, or changes in some way as well.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ana the Ist,

For me personally, you are asking me to stop loving and stop talking to my Heavenly Father. You are asking me to stop expressing my love and gratitude toward Him. I think it would be easier for you to ask me to stop breathing altogether. It's not just something I do, it's a part of who I am as a Christian. I have spent many years without God being in my life and I simply don't want to go back. I have experienced His presence, His grace, His mercy and His blessings upon my life too often to ever want to forsake Him again. He has been so incredibly merciful and gracious toward me that I could never turn away from Him again. Therefore, I personally cannot accept your challenge but have to humbly decline.

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to read any of the posts between the OP and your own?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Praying is communicating with God.

I'm sorry Jeremy but I'm about out of patience with explaining the OP. It wasn't all that complicated, yet you and every other christian who answered has acted like I meant something other than what I meant. Basically, the point you're making here has been made...several times already. Each time I clarified, another christian would come in and make the exact same point.

Am I the only one who reads other posters' replies before creating my own post anymore? I would understand not reading them all he this were some 20+ page thread...but we're still in single digits here.