I believe

[mkgal1]

"Love never fails" ~ 1 Corinthians 13:8

"God so loved the world......." ~ John 3:16


"If one man remains outside the love of God then one man has defeated the love of God." ~ Dr. Boyd Purcell

I believe love never fails - and that God will be victorious and not lose ONE of His sheep.

 

[zoidar]

Keep in mind that Universalism is a heresy because it posits that God will save everyone.

It isn't a heresy to hope that there might be some way for that to happen--or something close to it--which we are not informed about.

There is a little bit...but very little...in Scripture to support such a view and nothing by way of "Tradition" for the folks who always turn to it. Yet there is a lot (!) in Scripture that seems clearly to deny it.

True, to hope is one thing, to claim the Bible teaches it is the problem.

 

[FineLinen]

True, to hope is one thing, to claim the Bible teaches it is the problem.

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."

 

[FineLinen]

"Love never fails" ~ 1 Corinthians 13:8

"God so loved the world......." ~ John 3:16


"If one man remains outside the love of God then one man has defeated the love of God." ~ Unknown

I believe love never fails - and that God will be victorious and not lose ONE of His sheep.

I believe that "God is love." -1 John 4:8-

I believe that "love never fails." -1 Cor. 13:8-

I believe that God never fails.

 

[FineLinen]

"Love never fails" ~ 1 Corinthians 13:8

"God so loved the world......." ~ John 3:16


"If one man remains outside the love of God then one man has defeated the love of God." ~ Unknown

I believe love never fails - and that God will be victorious and not lose ONE of His sheep.

Dear Gal: I think the quote is from Dr. Boyd Purcell

"If one man remains outside the love of God then one man has defeated the love of God."

Books | Christian Universalist Association

 

[FineLinen]

El constante amor del Señor nunca cesaEl constante amor del Señor nunca cesa

Niezłomna miłość Pana nigdy nie ustaje

L'amour inébranlable du seigneur ne cesse jamais

Herrens standhaftiga kärlek upphör aldrig

對主的堅定愛心永不止息

Непоколебимая любовь Господа никогда не прекращается

 

[zoidar]

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."

I understand you want the best for everyone. Who wouldn't? I just think your teaching isn't the best for everyone. You seem like a kind man and that is of course a blessing, but I wish you came to a new understanding.

God bless,
P

 

[FineLinen]

I understand you want the best for everyone. Who wouldn't? I just think your teaching isn't the best for everyone. You seem like a kind man and that is of course a blessing, but I wish you came to a new understanding.

God bless,

Dear Zoidar: There is only one way the thoughts of our Heavenly Father can be grasped by any of us.

"Then opened He their understanding that they might understand the Scriptures"

 

[FineLinen]

I understand you want the best for everyone. Who wouldn't? I just think your teaching isn't the best for everyone. You seem like a kind man and that is of course a blessing, but I wish you came to a new understanding.

God bless,

Dear Zoidar: This Plan of all plans is not along the lines of what we think is good or not. His Plan is to reconcile the all, not some of the all, the all. I do appreciate your kind remarks, but coming to what now burns as a fire in my bones, came through 6 short words from His wonderful Presence years ago which has cascaded into the outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown.

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of the heavens, earth, and underworld in worship of Father

 

[FineLinen]

 

[Saint Steven]

Paul is saying that as a result of Adam's disobedience, Adam's descendants (that's you and me and all mankind!) were made sinners by nature and constitution. In next section, Paul writes that in the same way, but with a diametrically different effect, Christ's obedience causes those who believe in Him to be made righteous by nature and constitution.

Why skip to the next section instead of reading the verse in question?
And why not apply what you find elsewhere to the verse in question rather than misuse it to refute what this verse plainly says? Both are Bible, both should be true somehow. Bible vs. Bible does little good.

Romans 5:18 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

 

[Saint Steven]

Forming a doctrine by pulling out random verses and lacing them together is a guaranteed fast track to a cult. The Bible isn't composed of random verses, it has structure and concepts that take chapters to explain.

There is nothing "random" about the verses that we have carefully selected. They are carefully transplanted in our posts as truth removed from the tares of the Damnationist biased text that we were all given to work from. The truth revealed in the few texts the Damnationists neglected to corrupt. Nothing random about our fine detective work.

What random verses do you string together to make your points? We are all guilty of "proof-texting" sometimes.

 

[Saint Steven]

Eternal retribution isn't a negotiable concept.

Is that why you believe it is "unavoidable for those that God predestined to hell"? Because they had no choice in the matter. (not negotiable) They won't even get a fair trial. Right? Condemned at birth for the crime of being born in Adam's race.

 

[Saint Steven]

Keep in mind that Universalism is a heresy because it posits that God will save everyone.

It isn't a heresy to hope that there might be some way for that to happen--or something close to it--which we are not informed about.

There is a little bit...but very little...in Scripture to support such a view and nothing by way of "Tradition" for the folks who always turn to it. Yet there is a lot (!) in Scripture that seems clearly to deny it.

Dangerous words. - lol

Before I became a sympathetic to Universalism, I said that I don't understand it, but "I hope you are right."

Now that I understand it better, I still hope it is right. But I can't imagine going back to Damnationism. That view of God is so unbelievably blasphemous. What sort of monster would burn their own children. Even Molech requires someone else's children. Is our heavenly Father worse than Molech?

 

[Albion]

Dangerous words. - lol

Before I became a sympathetic to Universalism, I said that I don't understand it, but "I hope you are right."

Now that I understand it better, I still hope it is right. But I can't imagine going back to Damnationism. That view of God is so unbelievably blasphemous. What sort of monster would burn their own children. Even Molech requires someone else's children. Is our heavenly Father worse than Molech?

I understand the reasoning, but if we say we believe the Bible and that it is God's word, we cannot just substitute reasoning or human compassion for what the Bible teaches us. Plainly put, there are a few sketchy verses in the Bible that do seem to suggest Universal salvation, but there are a mountain of verses that say the opposite.

For me, the only way to harmonize the two impulses--the love of God and the Bible's testimony about hell--is to accept that there is a hell, but that as with most of what we know about the afterlife, the Bible did not purpose to tell us everything possible, most likely because our finite minds could not grasp it...and also because it is irrelevant to how we are to live.

If others are saved who we did not think would be, that's God business. In the meantime, WE doing what God wants has to be our focus.

 

[renniks]

There is nothing "random" about the verses that we have carefully selected. They are carefully transplanted in our posts as truth removed from the tares of the Damnationist biased text that we were all given to work from. The truth revealed in the few texts the Damnationists neglected to corrupt. Nothing random about our fine detective work.

What random verses do you string together to make your points? We are all guilty of "proof-texting" sometimes.

Lol, I don't have to stitch together random verses. There's entire passages where Jesus explains hell.

 

[renniks]

Is that why you believe it is "unavoidable for those that God predestined to hell"? Because they had no choice in the matter. (not negotiable) They won't even get a fair trial. Right? Condemned at birth for the crime of being born in Adam's race.

I'm not Calvinist. Everyone has a choice.

 

[Saint Steven]

I understand the reasoning, but if we say we believe the Bible and that it is God's word, we cannot just substitute reasoning or human compassion for what the Bible teaches us. Plainly put, there are a few sketchy verses in the Bible that do seem to suggest Universal salvation, but there are a mountain of verses that say the opposite.

For me, the only way to harmonize the two impulses--the love of God and the Bible's testimony about hell--is to accept that there is a hell, but that as with most of what we know about the afterlife, the Bible did not purpose to tell us everything possible, most likely because our finite minds could not grasp it...and also because it is irrelevant to how we are to live.

If others are saved who we did not think would be, that's God business. In the meantime, WE doing what God wants has to be our focus.

One problem is that what we call "God's word" is a translation of the Bible into our own language. Yet we find that not even all the translations agree.

Compounding the problem is that those who provided us with a translation of the Bible in our own language had an agenda and imprinted the whole project with a Damnationist view. It was translated with a predetermined doctrinal slant and even the vocabulary was messed with.

Imagine if the Universalists or Annihilationists of the day had been in charge of the canon of scripture. What effect would that have had?

Therefore, it is no surprise that the translated text which we like to refer to as "God's word" does a poor job of supporting Universalism, an alternative view of the final judgment.

Here's an example of two translations that take opposite views of the final judgment.
Which one is "God's word"?

Matthew 25:46 New International Version (NIV)
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

 

[Saint Steven]

Lol, I don't have to stitch together random verses. There's entire passages where Jesus explains hell.

So, stitching together random passages is somehow more noble than random verses?
What is Jesus' explanation of hell?

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm not Calvinist. Everyone has a choice.

Everyone but God?