Originally Posted by lori milne
hmw, thanks for checking in, I always appreciate when you post.
lori milne, I'm sure hmw will have more on this, but since the verse you posted is so often posted I must say my say.
We as Christians totally agree with your verse above, the Law is still very much intact, it has not changed what so ever. The problem is with mankind, many will read the law and begin to compare their life to the law, of which then say to themselves, hmmm, I haven't broken all of them, I'm ok.
For the average person, of which you might have the same thought, by focusing on the law and comparing yourself to it, you try to find your righteousness through the law, continuously focusing on your sins. In God's eyes, your trying to bring His perfection down to earthly standards.
The law was to break man's stubborn spirit, it was to show their faults.
Romans 3:20 Not one person can have Gods approval by any effort to follow the laws in the Scriptures. These laws show what "sin" is
True Christians have looked at the law, realized God's absolute perfection and by finding our righteousness through Jesus Christ, He who has fulfilled the law, we actually have more respect for the law that those who continue to focus on the law. Instead of trying to bring God's perfect standards down to earth, we are raised in Christ to meet His perfect Heavenly standards.
Romans 3:31 Are we abolishing the laws in the Scriptures by this faith? Thats unthinkable! Rather, we are supporting these laws.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
The word "establish" has nothing to do with getting rid of, it means to hold firm. By our faith we show the respect to something ever lasting.
Hope this helps, so often we see things from a earthly view, when we need to see things from a Godly view. Jim </quote>
Interesting view Jim . Would like to weigh in too
. Time line plays a major roll for Jesus in fulfilling of prophesy of OT. Thus the statement on law
posted by Lori (NOTE: be aware that much time will pass before the written gospel & NT that now shows the new covenant and changes view in retrospect in all this happened in the time line of "past" to us but "now" to Jesus). Now, faith from inside the Christian did change the law as secondary for total faith = Matt 22: 37-39 but not forgotten for the modern day Christian because we go to the OT to learn what sin is = No faith, like the illiterate believer posted in this thread. What does knowledge without love gain us in OT?
Confusion. Lori is looking for clarity of confusion by implementing 2 Tim. 3:16 in knowledge/law for her righteousness and this one knows law brings strife as Lori mentioned in family arguments because we now have knowledge without love (this scripture unfulfilled 1 Cor:13:1-13). In law judgment now ensues of Sin. Judgment of self, temptations, actions and others = ignoring plank in own eye. Ignoring scripture like , John 8:15-16. We judge the flesh, yet Jesus plainly states He not under the Spirit/God/Love/Father/Abba does not. This should scream to us that while the Father is not manifested in Jesus to judge, Jesus sets the example how a human should walk in the statement "I do not".
However, we do. And in doing so these scriptures are ignored by the babe in Spirit ... What Does the Bible Say About Perfecting Love?
So, lets apply this scripture to the topic at hand... 1:Cor:14 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
What is a Saint? One that is justified in the Baptism Matt 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. What is the church ? The individual who believes in a living God who chose them in the Baptism also known as Grace to love us first 1 John 4:19 (NOTE: This is but one aspect of grace. Grace is also for the unbeliever to overcome sin to be saved. Also grace is the sacrifice of the lamb/Jesus. Grace is Godly love and can be applied to many different aspects) . What is God? 1-John 4:8. What should a believer perfect? Law/physical or Love that is Spiritual/Living God/Concept/Starts in the mind in Heb 4:12 of love which will take care of all things physical and no sin free card exists for the unconfused in love in want not to sin. Confusion is just a stumbling block to the mind that tries to straddle the two and most babes do it, I did. Take that I Cor: 14:33 and replace the term god with love (It is scripturally sound in 1 John 4:8). Apply Gods love first to self, knowledge gained in the Word, that love applied to self produces the fruits and confusion/law (Gates of Hell) can not prevail for the Baptized.
Here's the big one... Know our limitation. Humanity can only grasp one. Thus the verse in no confusion. Love = Peace in the mind. Anything else is confusion and who resides in confusion? John 8:44
I too straddled the law at times and love at other times and confusion to participate in debate, looking for sin to judge it & arguing that stem from a closed mind in a negativity of some such that produces more sin in keeping that closed mind in negativity for it produces anger to another and disappointment to self that we participate in negativity = Belief of self before love/God. The challenge comes in who instilled negativity in our minds ? People, for me, because I trusted people to guide the Spirit and it is the breaking of Jesus's first commandment in Matt 22:37.. Like Jim stated in his last sentence . This one too hopes this post edifies someone out there .
These are all multiple meaning versus Give me clarity! One clear statement that has one meaning! Like this one For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. ([bless and do not curse]Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]5‬:[bless and do not curse]18-19‬ KJV)
hmw, thanks for checking in, I always appreciate when you post.
lori milne, I'm sure hmw will have more on this, but since the verse you posted is so often posted I must say my say.
We as Christians totally agree with your verse above, the Law is still very much intact, it has not changed what so ever. The problem is with mankind, many will read the law and begin to compare their life to the law, of which then say to themselves, hmmm, I haven't broken all of them, I'm ok.
For the average person, of which you might have the same thought, by focusing on the law and comparing yourself to it, you try to find your righteousness through the law, continuously focusing on your sins. In God's eyes, your trying to bring His perfection down to earthly standards.
The law was to break man's stubborn spirit, it was to show their faults.
Romans 3:20 Not one person can have Gods approval by any effort to follow the laws in the Scriptures. These laws show what "sin" is
True Christians have looked at the law, realized God's absolute perfection and by finding our righteousness through Jesus Christ, He who has fulfilled the law, we actually have more respect for the law that those who continue to focus on the law. Instead of trying to bring God's perfect standards down to earth, we are raised in Christ to meet His perfect Heavenly standards.
Romans 3:31 Are we abolishing the laws in the Scriptures by this faith? Thats unthinkable! Rather, we are supporting these laws.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
The word "establish" has nothing to do with getting rid of, it means to hold firm. By our faith we show the respect to something ever lasting.
Hope this helps, so often we see things from a earthly view, when we need to see things from a Godly view. Jim </quote>
Interesting view Jim . Would like to weigh in too
. Time line plays a major roll for Jesus in fulfilling of prophesy of OT. Thus the statement on law posted by Lori (NOTE: be aware that much time will pass before the written gospel & NT that now shows the new covenant and changes view in retrospect in all this happened in the time line of "past" to us but "now" to Jesus). Now, faith from inside the Christian did change the law as secondary for total faith = Matt 22: 37-39 but not forgotten for the modern day Christian because we go to the OT to learn what sin is = No faith, like the illiterate believer posted in this thread. What does knowledge without love gain us in OT?
Confusion. Lori is looking for clarity of confusion by implementing 2 Tim. 3:16 in knowledge/law for her righteousness and this one knows law brings strife as Lori mentioned in family arguments because we now have knowledge without love (this scripture unfulfilled 1 Cor:13:1-13). In law judgment now ensues of Sin. Judgment of self, temptations, actions and others = ignoring plank in own eye. Ignoring scripture like , John 8:15-16. We judge the flesh, yet Jesus plainly states He not under the Spirit/God/Love/Father/Abba does not. This should scream to us that while the Father is not manifested in Jesus to judge, Jesus sets the example how a human should walk in the statement "I do not".
However, we do. And in doing so these scriptures are ignored by the babe in Spirit ... What Does the Bible Say About Perfecting Love?
So, lets apply this scripture to the topic at hand... 1:Cor:14 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
What is a Saint? One that is justified in the Baptism Matt 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. What is the church ? The individual who believes in a living God who chose them in the Baptism also known as Grace to love us first 1 John 4:19 (NOTE: This is but one aspect of grace. Grace is also for the unbeliever to overcome sin to be saved. Also grace is the sacrifice of the lamb/Jesus. Grace is Godly love and can be applied to many different aspects) . What is God? 1-John 4:8. What should a believer perfect? Law/physical or Love that is Spiritual/Living God/Concept/Starts in the mind in Heb 4:12 of love which will take care of all things physical and no sin free card exists for the unconfused in love in want not to sin. Confusion is just a stumbling block to the mind that tries to straddle the two and most babes do it, I did
. Take that I Cor: 14:33 and replace the term god with love (It is scripturally sound in 1 John 4:8). Apply Gods love first to self, knowledge gained in the Word, that love applied to self produces the fruits and confusion/law (Gates of Hell) can not prevail for the Baptized.Here's the big one... Know our limitation. Humanity can only grasp one. Thus the verse in no confusion. Love = Peace in the mind. Anything else is confusion and who resides in confusion? John 8:44
I too straddled the law at times and love at other times and confusion to participate in debate, looking for sin to judge it & arguing that stem from a closed mind in a negativity of some such that produces more sin in keeping that closed mind in negativity for it produces anger to another and disappointment to self that we participate in negativity = Belief of self before love/God. The challenge comes in who instilled negativity in our minds ? People, for me, because I trusted people to guide the Spirit and it is the breaking of Jesus's first commandment in Matt 22:37.
. Like Jim stated in his last sentence . This one too hopes this post edifies someone out there .
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