Hyper grace and the great lie

[JLR1300]

What is faith? In Numbers 21 the children of Israel spoke against God and Moses. So the Lord sent serpents among the people and many were bitten and many were dying. So God told Moses to make a bronze snake and put it on a pole and lift it up high... and that whosoever would simply look at the snake would instantly be healed.

Now it took faith to look up at that snake. Why? Because there is no logical reason why looking at a bronze snake should make you well. It requires no works or actions. You just look and live. Now there were probably many people who died because it didn't make any sense to them that all they had to do was look toward the snake. It probably made more sense to them to do some great work or perform some heroic deed to be saved from the snakebite. But all God asked of them was just to look.

In the same way, in John 3 Jesus said "as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."

So the Gospel is like the incident with the snake. Jesus was lifted up on a cross and God has declared that whoever looks to him for salvation obtains eternal life. That means that all we have to do is to believe that since Jesus was sacrificed for our sins on the cross we automatically have salvation. We just look to what He did for us on the cross and trust in that to save us. We just believe that His blood covers our sins and saves us. When we do that we are immediately saved and have eternal life.

Now lots of people will perish because they cannot understand how it can be that simple. There are many so-called Christians who will never really be saved because it doesn't make sense to them that salvation can be so easy. Surely one must do works and become deserving, right? Wrong.

Romans 4:5 says "to the one who DOES NOT WORK but believes on Him who justifies the UNGODLY, his faith is credited to him as righteousness."

Why won't people let God give them something for free? It is because people believe that something as great as salvation has to cost us something. God can't just save us by grace... that is too easy. We will only accept salvation if we can deserve it.... otherwise we don't want it. But God only offers it as a gift. We cannot have it any other way.

 

[BryanW92]

What is faith? In Numbers 21 the children of Israel spoke against God and Moses. So the Lord sent serpents among the people and many were bitten and many were dying. So God told Moses to make a bronze snake and put it on a pole and lift it up high... and that whosoever would simply look at the snake would instantly be healed.

Now it took faith to look up at that snake. Why? Because there is no logical reason why looking at a bronze snake should make you well. It requires no works or actions. You just look and live. Now there were probably many people who died because it didn't make any sense to them that all they had to do was look toward the snake. It probably made more sense to them to do some great work or perform some heroic deed to be saved from the snakebite. But all God asked of them was just to look.

Later on, that snake pole became an idol for the people and Hezekiah had to order it destroyed in 1 Kings chapter 18 after declaring it to be "a bronze thing".

 

[lt11]

There are several people on the boards recently who seem to think that salvation is by the perfect or at least the near perfect keeping of the law. They are well-meaning people but are mistaken. If you read the new testament carefully, you will see that Jesus was more against people like that than any other group. He taught that prostitutes will get into heaven before the religious moralists. Have you not heard of the Pharisees? The Pharisees were the group in Christ's time who believed that other people were all lost because they didn't keep the commandments well enough, but that they themselves were going to heaven because they were so faithful to the laws of God. Jesus absolutely despised the Pharisees. Remember the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector? The Pharisee stood and prayed and said God I thank you that I am not like others. I fast and tithe and don't commit adultery etc. But the tax collector simply said God have mercy on me a sinner. Jesus said that the tax collector went home justified rather than the Pharisee. What people don't understand is that most of what Jesus taught in Matthew, Mark and Luke was not the gospel. Jesus spent most of the time in those books explaining the how strict the LAW is so that the Pharisees would hopefully realize that they couldn't keep it and turn to Him for mercy instead. When the rich young ruler asked Jesus to tell Him what good thing He could DO to obtain eternal life... Jesus wanted to destroy his trust in salvation by lawkeeping. So Jesus told him to keep the commandments.... especially not coveting (Jesus showed him that he wasn't keeping this one by challenging him to give up his posessions) and putting no other gods before God (Jesus showed him that he wasn't keeping this one by challenging him to leave everything and follow him). The Rich Young Ruler wouldn't do those things and so Jesus proved to Him that He wasn't really keeping the laws like He imagined he was. Jesus never told the young man the Gospel... he preached the LAW to him. Jesus was just showing the young man that He was failing to keep the law. If you want to learn the GOSPEL read the book of John. That book was specifically written to explain how to receive eternal life. So was the book of Romans. The word "gospel' is not in the greek in the titles of matthew mark and lukes' book. The greek does not say "the gospel according to Matthew' the greek only says "according to Matthew". same with the others. That is because they mostly are just the teachings of Jesus about the Kingdom of God and about the Law. John reveals the gospel. Most of the Gospels are like that.... they teach us how strict the law is so that we will realize that we aren't keeping it and will quit trusting it for salvation and will look to Jesus' sacrifice at the cross to pay for our sins and redeem us. The sermon on the mount was given to show people that if they want to be saved by the law then they are going to have to be absolutely perfect. If you want to be saved by the law... you not only must not commit adultery, you must not ever lust...even once. You must not only avoid murder... you must never be angry without cause even once. You must never speak even one idle word in your life. You must be perfect ... as much as the Father is perfect. If you mess up even once you cannot ever be saved. The only other choice is the Gospel. The Gospel isn't the law. It is completely different. The Gospel is the GOOD NEWS that even though you are a worthless sinner who's righteousness is as a filthy rag in God's sight, nevertheless Jesus died on the cross and paid the penalty for all our sins and so we can be completely forgiven. Those who will quit trying to be saved by their morality and will instead trust Jesus to save them will be saved. Those who are trying to be saved by their attempts to keep the law will be lost. The problem with many people is that they are filled with pride. In their arrogance they believe that others will not make it to heaven because they are so sinful but that they will make it because they are so zealous and committed to the morality Jesus taught in the sermon on the mount. Really they are just modern day Pharisees... and prostitutes will get into heaven before they do. I realize that after a person is saved the Holy Spirit will enter them and help them live a more godly life... but that is the RESULT of Salvation not the cause of it. The way to be saved is by faith alone.

Thankyou very much for writing this.

 

[hmw]

The answer is iniquity for the 77th time lol
What is habitual sin it to practice sin.

The dictionary defines iniquity as:

1. lack of justice or righteousness; wickedness; injustice
2. a wicked act; sin

As you can see your answer that "habitual" sin is iniquity, tells us nothing. That is why I keep asking this same question because your answer is not an answer.

So we now know that iniquity is defined as a "wicked act; a sin".

So how many sins makes it habitual?
Is 10 sins habitual?
Or
Is 100 sins habitual?
Or
Is it 7x70 sins habitual?

We cannot be ambiguous about such matters if your teaching claims that our salvation depends on whether we are guilty of habitual sin.

The doctrine you have been taught needs to answer these questions from scripture, because if it cannot then it must be error doctrine.

And the 7x70 is for man to forgive man
God will forgive us as much but not if we live in sin and say we're saved!

Are you saying that Christians are more forgiving than God is?

 

[lori milne]

The dictionary defines iniquity as: 1. lack of justice or righteousness; wickedness; injustice 2. a wicked act; sin As you can see your answer that "habitual" sin is iniquity, tells us nothing. That is why I keep asking this same question because your answer is not an answer. So we now know that iniquity is defined as a "wicked act; a sin". So how many sins makes it habitual? Is 10 sins habitual? Or Is 100 sins habitual? Or Is it 7x70 sins habitual? We cannot be ambiguous about such matters if your teaching claims that our salvation depends on whether we are guilty of habitual sin. The doctrine you have been taught needs to answer these questions from scripture, because if it cannot then it must be error doctrine. Are you saying that Christians are more forgiving than God is?

To be even clearer the sin you commit naturally instinctually isn't habitual or iniquity but when you willfully sin after obtaining the knowledge there is no sacrifice for that sin!
If you premeditated or make a choice to sin that is iniquity.
You can't choose to sin only once!
No one robs a bank once cheats once!
It's a self described word.
Willful sin
Iniquity = wicked you have to be willfully doing wrong for that
Not fleshly instinct like when you stub your toe

 

[lori milne]

The dictionary defines iniquity as: 1. lack of justice or righteousness; wickedness; injustice 2. a wicked act; sin As you can see your answer that "habitual" sin is iniquity, tells us nothing. That is why I keep asking this same question because your answer is not an answer. So we now know that iniquity is defined as a "wicked act; a sin". So how many sins makes it habitual? Is 10 sins habitual? Or Is 100 sins habitual? Or Is it 7x70 sins habitual? We cannot be ambiguous about such matters if your teaching claims that our salvation depends on whether we are guilty of habitual sin. The doctrine you have been taught needs to answer these questions from scripture, because if it cannot then it must be error doctrine. Are you saying that Christians are more forgiving than God is?

My verbiage if it is not in christaneese I'm sorry I use my words

 

[lori milne]

I really like your direction btw you have a hidden method I wish to understand more respectfully of corse

 

[hmw]

To be even clearer the sin you commit naturally instinctually isn't habitual or iniquity but when you willfully sin after obtaining the knowledge there is no sacrifice for that sin!
If you premeditated or make a choice to sin that is iniquity.
You can't choose to sin only once!
No one robs a bank once cheats once!
It's a self described word.
Willful sin
Iniquity = wicked you have to be willfully doing wrong for that
Not fleshly instinct like when you stub your toe

Sin is defined as transgression of the law, 1John 3:4.

And whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

BUT Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9), hence we cannot be charged with this sin, Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1, Rom 6:7, John 8:36.

But, I will assume you refer to the definition of sin being transgression of the law (even though scripture shows that this sin cannot be charged against Christians).

Consider the 2 following examples.

Under the law we are to keep the Sabbath holy.
Are you keeping the Saturday Sabbath holy, a day of rest?
Or are you habitually and willfully sinning in breaking that commandment, and therefore lost?

Mark 10:11,12 tells us that divorcees who marry another are in adultery (sin). Considering that divorcees marrying another is so common these days, even amongst Christians, then are you saying that these remarried divorcees are habitually and willfully sinning, and therefore lost?

And also are you saying that Christians are more forgiving than God is? You certainly seem convinced that God has a low tolerance for anyone doing wrong hence my question whether you claim that God is not really into forgiveness.

 

[JLR1300]

Thankyou very much for writing this.

You are welcome. Have a nice day!

 

[Neogaia777]

There are several people on the boards recently who seem to think that salvation is by the perfect or at least the near perfect keeping of the law. They are well-meaning people but are mistaken. If you read the new testament carefully, you will see that Jesus was more against people like that than any other group. He taught that prostitutes will get into heaven before the religious moralists.

Have you not heard of the Pharisees? The Pharisees were the group in Christ's time who believed that other people were all lost because they didn't keep the commandments well enough, but that they themselves were going to heaven because they were so faithful to the laws of God. Jesus absolutely despised the Pharisees.

Jesus didn't "Despise" the Pharisees, he loved them, he loved everyone, he just knew that he had to take a different approach, a different tactic, with the Pharisees, as they were hard-headed and hard-hearted and self-righteous, and had a lack of compassion on the poor and the needy because they reasoned in themselves that all the poor were in the position they were in due to their own bad choices and due their being sinners, and the only way to get through to people like that was/is to give them a strong rebuke, out of love,

And Jesus strong rebukes did convert some of them, while the tax-collectors and the prostitutes and the sinners who knew that they were unrighteous sinners, needed someone to show them love, kindness, mercy and grace and forgiveness, so this is the approach/tactic Jesus used with them, but Jesus did "love" (and not "despise") the Pharisees, he just knew that they were going to require strong rebukes, due to their pride and hard-heartedness and self-righteousness, in order to be "corrected" and hopefully convert and follow him...

Liked the rest of your post though, but I just wanted to make the point that Jesus didn't "despise" or "hate" anyone, all that he did was out of love for everyone...

But let this be a lesson to all of you out there that are walking in their pride, or self-righteousness, having a hard-head and a hard-heart, and have a lack of compassion on the poor and the needy because you reason within yourself that all the poor were in the position they were in due to their own bad choices and due their being sinners... So, to all you goody-to shoes, who think "I am a good person, I don't sin like those "other people" out there" and let it get to the point that you think your better than others... Let it be a warning to these people that Jesus or some representative of him, will probably have to come to you with a strong rebuke, and you will respond one of two ways to that rebuke, you will:

One, take it as a form of self-reflection leading to self correction, or two, you'll become so inscenced at the person who gave you the rebuke that you'll want revenge and you will "hate" the other person and you will not accept what they said as a form of self-correction and will continue to an even greater degree to walk in your pride (ego) and self-righteousness, and hard-headedness and hard-heartedness...

God Bless!

 

[lori milne]

Sin is defined as transgression of the law, 1John 3:4. And whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19. BUT Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9), hence we cannot be charged with this sin, Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1, Rom 6:7, John 8:36. But, I will assume you refer to the definition of sin being transgression of the law (even though scripture shows that this sin cannot be charged against Christians). Consider the 2 following examples. Under the law we are to keep the Sabbath holy. Are you keeping the Saturday Sabbath holy, a day of rest? Or are you habitually and willfully sinning in breaking that commandment, and therefore lost? Mark 10:11,12 tells us that divorcees who marry another are in adultery (sin). Considering that divorcees marrying another is so common these days, even amongst Christians, then are you saying that these remarried divorcees are habitually and willfully sinning, and therefore lost? And also are you

saying that Christians are more forgiving than God is? You certainly seem convinced that God has a low tolerance for anyone doing wrong hence my question whether you claim that God is not really into forgiveness.

Question what does the FEAR OF GOD mean in the bible To the saved?

Jesus teaches every word ! in the law remains to Gentiles Jews All
Nothing was taken away
Moses law remains to be obeyed of corse!!

I won't tip toe anymore with this word game!

You can't just repent once and your sins from that moment are free to commit this is totally lucifarin doctrine free to sin is the snakes first lie in geniuses.
Grace in the invite bible from OT to NT means favor in gods eyes the first time it was used was with Noah ! No tell me was this David undeserved ? Did he sin like the others!
I get Jesus hasn't given the new covenant yet
But that doesn't change the meaning of the word grace!

Jesus will continue to blot out your sin but you can't live in it and it be forgiven! That's his love!
You have to believe his directions for us
FAITH= believe you can live not thirsty for the world /sin but thirsty for him.
How do we do that read the word day and night meditate on it David's a great example for that!!
It's Sunday school level stuff !

Twist it around all you want to change it but it all goes back to
My he first lie in the garden its black and white
You can't twist that around it's clear when you do !
Like now!!

 

[Neogaia777]

Question what does the FEAR OF GOD mean in the bible To the saved?

Deep reverence, deep respect, and great awe (the healthy form of fear) not fear of punishment or hell or that God will hate you, that is unhealthy fear...

Healthy fear leads to wisdom and humbleness...

God Bless

 

[lori milne]

Amen

Wisdom is the the TRUE fear of God

Job 28 1-28

It's not given by man nor found by man, purchased !
It's ONLY given by GOD

 

[lori milne]

Amen Wisdom is the the TRUE fear of God Job 28 1-28 It's not given by man nor found by man, purchased ! It's ONLY given by GOD

True understanding is the ability to turn from evil This is given by GOD Through reading the word of GOD Amen!!!!
Job 28:1-28

 

[JLR1300]

Yes, I suppose I shouldn't have said "despised". Let's just say that He rebuked them severely and often.

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes, I suppose I shouldn't have said "despised". Let's just say that He rebuked them severely and often.

Out of Love, and in the hopes of converting some of them, (which did happen)...

It's like if you met someone who was making racial jokes and even calling black people "n1ggers", and hispanic people "spics" And you gave them a strong, sharp rebuke that was either sharp enough that it made them question themselves and question changing their racist ways, or it didn't, and had the opposite effect, then the person just get's mad and angry(ier) and bitter toward you, and even hates you, and even may want to do something harmful to you, all for your taking your stand for righteousness (what you thought was right)

God Bless!

 

[hmw]

Jesus teaches every word ! in the law remains to Gentiles Jews All
Nothing was taken away
Moses law remains to be obeyed of corse!!

Whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

BUT Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9), hence we cannot be charged with this sin, Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1, Rom 6:7, John 8:36.

Why do you reject what God's word says here against the works of the law that you always preach?

In fact we see many scriptures warning about determining our righteousness and salvation by works of the law (Gal 3:3, Rom 10:3, Rom 11:6, 2Cor 3:7-11, Gal 2:21, etc, etc).

Yet you disobey God's will to believe on Jesus (John 6:40) and instead you preach works of the law. And remember that the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.

You cant be sitting on the fence like this. Either you're saved by grace (where your faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5), OR you're doing PERFECT obedience to the law to be righteous by self works.

You can't just repent once and your sins from that moment are free to commit this is totally lucifarin doctrine free to sin is the snakes first lie in geniuses.

So as you preach the law all the time can you answer these questions below. They're based on commandments in the law so as you preach so much on the law then you should have no troubles answering these questions.

Under the law we are to keep the Sabbath holy.

Are you keeping the Saturday Sabbath holy, a day of rest?
Or are you habitually and willfully sinning in breaking that commandment, and therefore lost?

Mark 10:11,12 tells us that divorcees who marry another are in adultery (sin).
Considering that divorcees marrying another is so common these days, even amongst Christians, then are you saying that these remarried divorcees are habitually and willfully sinning, and therefore lost?

And also are you saying that Christians are more forgiving than God is?
You certainly seem convinced that God has a low tolerance for anyone doing wrong hence my question whether you claim that God is not really into forgiveness.

Jesus will continue to blot out your sin but you can't live in it and it be forgiven!

So again I ask how many sins makes it habitual?

Is 10 sins habitual?
Or
Is 100 sins habitual?
Or
Is 7x70 sins habitual?

The term "habitual" is such an ambiguous term which fails to clarify where the cut off point is.
We cannot be ambiguous about such matters when your teaching claims that our salvation depends on whether we are guilty of habitual sin.

The doctrine you have been taught needs to answer these questions from scripture, because if it cannot then it must be error doctrine.

It may just be that your concern is about selfish behavior from Christians. If so then it has been derailed into following a false doctrine of righteousness by works of the law.

I believe Christians do improve in their behavior. But each of us is at a different stage of growth to each other. And remember also that God is well able to make a Christian stand in spite of what unique circumstances they're facing.
Rom 14:4
Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand

I suggest that rather than your OT preaching condemnation under the law and thereby setting yourself up as a judge (James 4:12), that you instead, preach the gospel of Christ, that we should believe on him. Let God instruct and direct Christians. Who are you to judge another (James 4:12)?

 

[Norah63]

Check out our youth today. Are they understanding salvation?
Is it anythings goes, just add Calvinism to the mix?
If lifestyle is any indication there are few that are saved today.
Unless hypergrace is expected.
I just viewed a clip of spring break on the news.... shocking what we have gotten to in this world.

 

[BryanW92]

Check out our youth today. Are they understanding salvation?
Is it anythings goes, just add Calvinism to the mix?
If lifestyle is any indication there are few that are saved today.
Unless hypergrace is expected.
I just viewed a clip of spring break on the news.... shocking what we have gotten to in this world.

There are other spring breakers who are going on mission trips, building Habitat for Humanity homes, etc. In America, the message of the gospel is not hard to find and there is no cost for hearing it, so the people who don't listen are either not capable is hearing it, they choose to not hear it, or they are actually hardened against it. Regardless of each of our theologies, we all know that some people will never be saved.

But we also know that, regardless of whatever sins they do on spring break, they can always be forgiven later.

 

[Norah63]

Thanks Bryan for that word of hope.
It is so sad to see what some parents are paying for their children to do.
Yes I pray that more are choosing a safer life in Christ.