Humans are capable of being sinless

[Desolate Owl]

being rid of the Catholic rubbish would be a huge dent in sin.

I know that QuantaCura made a smart comment, but this sort of thing really doesn't contribute anything to the thread. It's best to redirect away from digressions and keep the focus on the main topic.

 

[flameingcrouton]

Mary lived a sinless life.

where does it say that mary lived her whole life with out sinning?

 

[livingproofGM]

Mary was immaculately concieved to bear the prefect being, Jesus. She is the new Ark of the covenant seen in Revelation. I don't think (personally) God would chose a sinful woman to bear His perfect Son.

 

[livingproofGM]

Sorry, just read how people don't want to start another Mary thread. Just ignore it. Sorry!

 

[flameingcrouton]

Mary was immaculately concieved to bear the prefect being, Jesus. She is the new Ark of the covenant seen in Revelation. I don't think (personally) God would chose a sinful woman to bear His perfect Son.

So you have no idea what kind of life she lead your just assuming it was sinnles?

 

[AcaciaGrove]

Treadstarter is wrong\

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god"
Romans 3:23

the bible makes it pretty black and white

 

[depthdeception]

Treadstarter is wrong\

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god"
Romans 3:23

the bible makes it pretty black and white

Exactly how is this black and white?

 

[livingproofGM]

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god"
Romans 3:23

I think we need to take into consideration the word "all." In Mark 1:5 : "And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins." I doubt John ended up baptizing an entire country in one day.

In Romans, Paul speaks of the time when Jacob and Esau were unborn babies as a time when they "had done nothing either good or bad" (Rom. 9:11). A child under the age of reason cannot sin, a mental person doesn't sin. I don't think Mary sinned, either. There are exceptions to the word "all."

 

[depthdeception]

Treadstarter is wrong\

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god"
Romans 3:23

the bible makes it pretty black and white

This verse must be read in light of the context of the third chapter of Romans (and actually in light of the over-arching context of Romans itself). Paul is talking about righteousness through the law vs. righteousness through Christ. He begins by describing the life of one attempting to please God through legalistic righteousness (Romans 3:9-19). But Paul concludes that the end result is that we only condemn ourselves further, for we show our sinfulness to be truly sinful. Then, in 20ff, Paul describes the life lived by faith and the righteousness that comes through Christ. Immediately, he writes vs. 23, not to show that the life of the Christian is to be one of continual sin and failure, but rather to show that the righteousness which the believer enjoys is based upon Christ's grace, not upon the best legalistic efforts of the person trying to please God.

As anyone can plainly see, to use 3:23 as "proof" that Paul believed that Christians will necessarily continue to sin throughout their lifetimes is eisigesis--completely ignoring the context of Paul's meaning and message.

Now I am not saying, conversely, that this text is proof for the possibility of the Christian living a life without sin. Rather, I am only pointing out that it cannot be utilized either way.

 

[flameingcrouton]

This verse must be read in light of the context of the third chapter of Romans (and actually in light of the over-arching context of Romans itself). Paul is talking about righteousness through the law vs. righteousness through Christ. He begins by describing the life of one attempting to please God through legalistic righteousness (Romans 3:9-19). But Paul concludes that the end result is that we only condemn ourselves further, for we show our sinfulness to be truly sinful. Then, in 20ff, Paul describes the life lived by faith and the righteousness that comes through Christ. Immediately, he writes vs. 23, not to show that the life of the Christian is to be one of continual sin and failure, but rather to show that the righteousness which the believer enjoys is based upon Christ's grace, not upon the best legalistic efforts of the person trying to please God.

As anyone can plainly see, to use 3:23 as "proof" that Paul believed that Christians will necessarily continue to sin throughout their lifetimes is eisigesis--completely ignoring the context of Paul's meaning and message.

Now I am not saying, conversely, that this text is proof for the possibility of the Christian living a life without sin. Rather, I am only pointing out that it cannot be utilized either way.

So if marry was sinnless, why do we need christ? we have a perfect lamb right there in marry if she was sinnless.

 

[livingproofGM]

So if marry was sinnless, why do we need christ? we have a perfect lamb right there in marry if she was sinnless.

Mary didn't die on the cross for our sins. Only by the spilling of Christ's blood were we saved. Not by Mary's.

 

[flameingcrouton]

Mary didn't die on the cross for our sins. Only by the spilling of Christ's blood were we saved. Not by Mary's.

that is exactly my question, why couldnt marry get up on the cross?

 

[No Swansong]

that is exactly my question, why couldnt marry get up on the cross?

I don't normally get involved in Mary threads. But this is a pretty good question, especially if you extend it.

If original sin is not universal, if God is capable of creating us without the stain of original sin, then why was Christ's sacrifice necessary. I have never really applied this to the idea that Mary was sinless, but it does follow that if God could cause Mary to be conceived without sin, then certainly He could create all of us without sin. Then why Christ?

 

[livingproofGM]

When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

The traditional translation, "full of grace," is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter"). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

 

[Desolate Owl]

I don't normally get involved in Mary threads. But this is a pretty good question, especially if you extend it.

Sadly, this isn't a Mary thread. It's just been hijacked.

 

[Fellowship]

Has anyone brought up the seven deadly sins? These are the forefathers of all sin and they all come of the mind.

I'm not sure it's possible for a conscious man not to feel these emotions. Although, I suppose a person in an extreme vegatative state may be cabable of this if his brain isn't functioning properly, but this is an 'extreme' example that isn't 100% either. This notion of a "possibility" is reaching at best.

Edit: (question) How frequent is Sin-less Mary in Protestantism?

 

[SH89]

after baptising, it means you accept jesus as your savior....and
GOd, holy spirit, and j.c as trinity....i think i'm going off with my words.

sorry to get off the topic, but JESUS IS GOD.

 

[KAmil]

we were BORN in sin, and we are AROUND it almost all the time...it is so very very rare to find a person like that.

 

[S1lentOp]

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[Humbledmac]

At the request of another member, I will start a thread on this topic. I stated that human's are capable of being sinless in another thread.

Anyway here is my point. After Baptism, I feel that a human has the full capability of living sinless, contrary to what many other Christians believe. Does it mean it happen's much, probably not. But, a person has the full capability of being sinless after Baptism. Anyone who want's to add anything, feel free.

Where in the Bible does it say that humans are capable of living sinless after baptism? or better yet, have you ever met a person like that? are you like that?