Human Evolution

[AirPo]

at a guess how many species and types of bacteria, mamma, fish ,insect plants dinosaurs the whole she bang of life have ever existed on this planet extinct or not.

A lot.

 

[andy b]

A lot.

take a punt a million , a 100 million ,a billion remember im talking microscopic bacteria in the sea and atmosphere come on there must be someone who has an idea.

 

[anyathesword]

Anya....

My dear old dad used to tell us kids that there was a good reason why we had two eyes and two ears, but only ONE mouth...

Because we learn an awful lot more by keeping the former OPEN and the latter CLOSED...!

You say you're here to learn, but most of what you seem to do is TELL.......

Aha

 

[AirPo]

take a punt a million , a 100 million ,a billion remember im talking microscopic bacteria in the sea and atmosphere come on there must be someone who has an idea.

Number of years vs number of species in and of itself is not a valid comparison.

 

[Dizredux]

im not a fire and brimstone merchant, ive not even read the old testament in full yet, i concentrate on the teachings of Jesus and reading books about him to help keep me grounded.Im open to all ideas but i have a massive problem with life just appearing for no reason in so many ways

Many do have a problem with this and I can understand it but what we know pretty much as a fact is that at one time there was no life then there was. Right now we do not know how this happened. God could have formed the first life. The idea that the earth was seeded from outside is unlikely but cannot be ruled out. There are other hypothesis and right now none can be ruled out.

Abiogenesis is the term for the idea that it was by natural process that life arose from non-living matter such as simple organic compounds. I think the primary issue is that this the only hypothesis that science can effectively address and so that is where the research is being done. Science cannot address a deity creating the first life so has to work on naturalistic methods. Outside source could be addressed and there are some interesting finds on organic compounds being found in asteroids or comets but right now the most likely candidate, as far as science is concerned is some form of abiogenesis.

and the Fin legs fluke history of the whale seems ridiculous im not saying its not true it just doesn't float my boat.

While it may not float your boat, there is a *huge* amount of data backing this up.

Delphiki is posting a series from UC at Berkley on the basics of evolution. It might be worth your while to follow it.


http://www.christianforums.com/t7804322/

Take care,

Dizredux

 

[Loudmouth]

im not a fire and brimstone merchant, ive not even read the old testament in full yet, i concentrate on the teachings of Jesus and reading books about him to help keep me grounded.Im open to all ideas but i have a massive problem with life just appearing for no reason in so many ways and the Fin legs fluke history of the whale seems ridiculous im not saying its not true it just doesn't float my boat.

The wise man changes his beliefs to match reality. The fool expects reality to change itself to match his beliefs.

 

[andy b]

Number of years vs number of species in and of itself is not a valid comparison.

its not in itself, but when you consider how long the eath has been with out life ( in your own words billions of years) it means that new species of life are being created yearly on a production line scale but we dont know how to create it.

 

[andy b]

The wise man changes his beliefs to match reality. The fool expects reality to change itself to match his beliefs.

well i aint wise and for most of my life ive had no real belief so i fail on both scores

 

[anyathesword]

It takes millions of years for our DNA to mutate enough to make us upright walking creatures with big brains. How much more does DNA need to mutate to fit in all our intelligence of our brains in a few thousand years?

I'm talking about the need for spirituality, the ability to SPEAK and have languages, to be able to reason, have a mind-body connection, having morals, appreciating the outdoors, living my time, and self-awareness?

IF our brains biologically are similar to animals, then WHY are we so different??

 

[CabVet]

It takes millions of years for our DNA to mutate enough to make us upright walking creatures with big brains. How much more does DNA need to mutate to fit in all our intelligence of our brains in a few thousand years?

I'm talking about the need for spirituality, the ability to SPEAK and have languages, to be able to reason, have a mind-body connection, having morals, appreciating the outdoors, living my time, and self-awareness?

IF our brains biologically are similar to animals, then WHY are we so different??

Will you have time to read any of the answers to those questions? There are answers, but I won't waste my time posting if your response is to say that you don't have time to read them.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It takes millions of years for our DNA to mutate enough to make us upright walking creatures with big brains. How much more does DNA need to mutate to fit in all our intelligence of our brains in a few thousand years?

I'm talking about the need for spirituality, the ability to SPEAK and have languages, to be able to reason, have a mind-body connection, having morals, appreciating the outdoors, living my time, and self-awareness?

IF our brains biologically are similar to animals, then WHY are we so different??

1, the earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old, with life existing on it for about 3.5 billion years, leaving plenty of time for evolution.

2. Well for one, humans aren't the only creatures to have language that is consistent. Apes, dolphins, heck, even bees have language to an extent. Their language isn't as complex as our own, but it is there. Apes can reason usually at about the level of a 4 year old human, sometimes more.

Animals actually can have morals. Chimps will punish their children if they bully the children of other chimps. And that mind-body connection, I suppose you mean the theory of mind, is also observed in apes and dolphins. And even my dog can appreciate the outdoors.

3. A human brain isn't actually that different than that of a chimp, just bigger with a more developed frontal cortex. Beyond that, chimp brains and human brains are mostly analogus structure wise, with some more minor differences.

The idea that humans are so different than other animals is just hubris.

 

[Loudmouth]

It takes millions of years for our DNA to mutate enough to make us upright walking creatures with big brains.

Since it has been ~5 million years since we split off from the chimp lineage, I don't see why this is a problem.

How much more does DNA need to mutate to fit in all our intelligence of our brains in a few thousand years?

Chimps and humans are only separated by 4% or so, and 2% of that divergence occurred in the chimp lineage. It looks like just a 2% change is all that is needed.

IF our brains biologically are similar to animals, then WHY are we so different??

Why are we so similar?

 

[Loudmouth]

its not in itself, but when you consider how long the eath has been with out life ( in your own words billions of years) it means that new species of life are being created yearly on a production line scale but we dont know how to create it.

Why is this a problem? When you have millions and millions of populations, is it really that surprising that millions of new species are being produced?

 

[Golden Yak]

IF our brains biologically are similar to animals, then WHY are we so different??

A little intelligence goes a long way.

 

[Dizredux]

at a guess how many species and types of bacteria, mamma, fish ,insect plants dinosaurs the whole she bang of life have ever existed on this planet extinct or not. Abstract

Virtially impossible to even estimate the number of species that have existed with any reasonable degree of accuracy.

I did find this article on estimating the number of living species but as you can see, even that is very difficult to do with any accuracy.

PLOS Biology: How Many Species Are There on Earth and in the Ocean?

Author Summary

Knowing the number of species on Earth is one of the most basic yet elusive questions in science. Unfortunately, obtaining an accurate number is constrained by the fact that most species remain to be described and because indirect attempts to answer this question have been highly controversial. Here, we document that the taxonomic classification of species into higher taxonomic groups (from genera to phyla) follows a consistent pattern from which the total number of species in any taxonomic group can be predicted. Assessment of this pattern for all kingdoms of life on Earth predicts ~8.7 million (±1.3 million SE) species globally, of which ~2.2 million (±0.18 million SE) are marine. Our results suggest that some 86% of the species on Earth, and 91% in the ocean, still await description. Closing this knowledge gap will require a renewed interest in exploration and taxonomy, and a continuing effort to catalogue existing biodiversity data in publicly available databases.

Hope this helps a little

Dizredux

 

[anyathesword]

1, the earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old, with life existing on it for about 3.5 billion years, leaving plenty of time for evolution.

2. Well for one, humans aren't the only creatures to have language that is consistent. Apes, dolphins, heck, even bees have language to an extent. Their language isn't as complex as our own, but it is there. Apes can reason usually at about the level of a 4 year old human, sometimes more.

Animals actually can have morals. Chimps will punish their children if they bully the children of other chimps. And that mind-body connection, I suppose you mean the theory of mind, is also observed in apes and dolphins. And even my dog can appreciate the outdoors.

3. A human brain isn't actually that different than that of a chimp, just bigger with a more developed frontal cortex. Beyond that, chimp brains and human brains are mostly analogus structure wise, with some more minor differences.

The idea that humans are so different than other animals is just hubris.

Sarah, for number 2, I know that animals and humans can COMMUNICATE with one another, but they can NOT TALK in WORDS and PHRASES like we can!! Only humans can and why is that?

Sure there's plenty of time in an evolutionist's perspective and interpretation of the past.

No Sarah, animals can not reason like we can, make choices about love, research, come up with a list of what is right and wrong, come up with the fields of PSYCHOLOGY and SCIENCE, etc.

No, the idea that we are different shall not be ignored.

 

[anyathesword]

A little intelligence goes a long way.

Exactement, and a little common sense...

 

[anyathesword]

Since it has been ~5 million years since we split off from the chimp lineage, I don't see why this is a problem.



Chimps and humans are only separated by 4% or so, and 2% of that divergence occurred in the chimp lineage. It looks like just a 2% change is all that is needed.



Why are we so similar?

Don't you think it takes alot of DNA mutation to change the joints, bone structure, bone size, brain size, skin and hair type, eye color, speaking abilities, intelligence abilities, organ size, etc. in this few million years?

It takes only one mutation of a gene to cause a disease.

"Acquired (or somatic) mutations occur in the DNA of individual cells at some time during a person’s life. These changes can be caused by environmental factors such as ultraviolet radiation from the sun, or can occur if a mistake is made as DNA copies itself during cell division. Acquired mutations in somatic cells (cells other than sperm and egg cells) cannot be passed on to the next generation."
What is a gene mutation and how do mutations occur? - Genetics Home Reference

So if environmental factors during the person's life affect their DNA, but the mutations can not be passed on, then why would the weather fluctuations have anything to do with human evolution?

 

[Golden Yak]

Exactement, and a little common sense...

...is a dangerous thing. Or maybe it's the other way around.

Re. your post to PsychoSarah - blue whales are the biggest animals, cheetahs are the fastest, humans are the smartest. Someone was going to be the best at thinking, it happened to be us.

But don't discount how complex the communication of other animals can be. Just because they aren't using english doesn't mean they don't have a language. Birds straight up name their babies - Study: Parrot Parents Name Their Babies | Geekosystem

 

[USincognito]

A little intelligence goes a long way.