How would you greet a bishop?

FireDragon76 · Jul 13, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Don't you think there was respect in the New Testament?

In civil society in western countries, it used to be customary to use basic titles whether or not you personally believed in that person's religion. Whether the Pope or the Dalai Lama was being interviewed, it didn't matter.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 13, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Either a bishop, Patriarch, Pope, Ecumenical Patriarch. How would you greet that person? With a kiss, reverence?

If the bishop is a humble down to earth guy who introduces himself to me by his first name I would be glad to greet him on the same basis.

If he is one of those who is full of his self-importance and wants a more formal greeting, I wouldn't bother. I would stand back and allow the other acre kissers defer to him with reverence and kiss his ring.

Archivist · Jul 13, 2019

Ive never heard of kissing a Bishop’s ring in the Lutheran Church.

High Fidelity · Jul 13, 2019

Like any other person. If they're Catholic, then I'd probably have a few uncomfortable questions for them regarding the cover up of so many pedophiles.

Reverence is earned and I'm certainly not kissing someone's hand because it's expected. I don't know them beyond their title and if we've learnt anything from history it's that the title means diddlysquat when it comes to respect, much less reverence.

FireDragon76 · Jul 13, 2019

High Fidelity said:
Like any other person. If they're Catholic, then I'd probably have a few uncomfortable questions for them regarding the cover up of so many pedophiles.

Reverence is earned and I'm certainly not kissing someone's hand because it's expected. I don't know them beyond their title and if we've learnt anything from history it's that the title means diddlysquat when it comes to respect, much less reverence.

Kissing somebody's hand is generally not expected unless you actually belong to that religion. But using appropriate titles is customary, and is just a matter of civility.

"Reverend" works in most circumstances in English-speaking countries to refer to Christian clergy in general, regardless of denomination.

It is also an appropriate title for some other religions' clergy, such as Buddhism: for instance, the late Rev. Dr. Alfred Bloom was a minister in the Buddhist Churches of America, and also a professor of Buddhist studies at Berkeley. And the Rev. Joan Halifax is a Zen master in San Francisco.

At one time, Reformed rabbi's also went by "reverend", but that usage has fallen out of favor in recent years.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jul 13, 2019

Reading through the comments of our Protestant friends sort of irked me that they would treat Bishops as any other, but then I'm reminded that depending on the Church or the particular Bishop I run into that I might not give them an accustomed greeting. I would never kiss the hand of a female pastor for instance or refer to them as a Priest or someone who does and celebrates things contrary to the gospel. I wouldn't go out of my way to display this, but if pressed I could not in good conscience acknowledge their supposed position.

So I can understand that protestant attitude somewhat. Especially if one views the whole system of Bishops and Priests as invalid or unbiblical. So I will explain why I would give all due respect to my own Bishop or Bishops of any Orthodox Church. I would do it, not because they are special but because they are the leader of the Church God has appointed for us. They handle the administration, they handle the Eucharist and unless they have been seriously compromised or involved in serious corruption, I see nothing harmful in kissing their hand, asking for their blessing or genuflecting to them. They have invested their lives in being spiritual leaders guides of the congregation which to me requires some recognition.

I'm also not opposed to those secular honors we pay our higher ups, be that Queens, Kings, Dignitaries, Priministers or Presidents. It just strikes me as proper.

aiki · Jul 13, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Either a bishop, Patriarch, Pope, Ecumenical Patriarch. How would you greet that person? With a kiss, reverence?

With common courtesy. I would not use honorifics, however.

Paidiske · Jul 13, 2019

I think affording someone the courtesy of a title recognises their role in their own community of faith; it doesn't necessarily imply that one accepts the validity of that community or all of its beliefs or practices.

To me, it's common courtesy to use someone's title, but physical gestures of reverence (genuflection or hand kissing etc) aren't something I normally do for anyone, and I'd have to feel I had a reason to do that which went beyond common courtesy. That does feel like it's entered the "I'm identifying with and adopting the practices of this community" space.

As an aside, when it comes to my own title I find it most useful when dealing with people outside the church, who might need a clue as to who I am or the role I play, when interacting with them on behalf of the church. So it's helpful in an email signature, less so in personal interaction. I'd never insist that someone call me by the title, but the kind of let-me-make-a-point-of-not-acknowledging-you game is just rude.

JacksBratt · Jul 13, 2019

I understand that they have a title. However, they are just educated religious teachers like many others. I would address them by their title but certainly not kiss or show submission for any reason.

Archivist · Jul 13, 2019

Of course a Monty Python fan would say “it’s the Bishop.” That would be followed by dramatic music, which would be followed by someone blowing up.

Shane R · Jul 13, 2019

I think I carried over some of my military experience into the way I view the bishop and the customs of the church. About half of the clergy in my diocese are old veterans of the US Military (with the majority being old sailors like myself). After spending five years conforming to a set of antiquated rules mostly carried over from a bygone era in the Royal Navy, it doesn't seem that ridiculous to me to genuflect to the Bishop and kiss his ring. But, as a member of the clergy, I have also taken an oath to the laws, customs, and leadership of my church that sets me apart from the lay members and demands a different sort of conduct and obedience.

W2L · Jul 13, 2019

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Reading through the comments of our Protestant friends sort of irked me that they would treat Bishops as any other, but then I'm reminded that depending on the Church or the particular Bishop I run into that I might not give them an accustomed greeting. I would never kiss the hand of a female pastor for instance or refer to them as a Priest or someone who does and celebrates things contrary to the gospel. I wouldn't go out of my way to display this, but if pressed I could not in good conscience acknowledge their supposed position.

So I can understand that protestant attitude somewhat. Especially if one views the whole system of Bishops and Priests as invalid or unbiblical. So I will explain why I would give all due respect to my own Bishop or Bishops of any Orthodox Church. I would do it, not because they are special but because they are the leader of the Church God has appointed for us. They handle the administration, they handle the Eucharist and unless they have been seriously compromised or involved in serious corruption, I see nothing harmful in kissing their hand, asking for their blessing or genuflecting to them. They have invested their lives in being spiritual leaders guides of the congregation which to me requires some recognition.

I'm also not opposed to those secular honors we pay our higher ups, be that Queens, Kings, Dignitaries, Priministers or Presidents. It just strikes me as proper.

Acts 10:26 But Peter pulled him up and said, “Stand up! I’m a human being just like you!”

1 Corinthians 3:5 After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. 6 I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow. 7 It’s not important who does the planting, or who does the watering. What’s important is that God makes the seed grow.

Alithis · Jul 13, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Either a bishop, Patriarch, Pope, Ecumenical Patriarch. How would you greet that person? With a kiss, reverence?

I revere ONLY Christ Jesus.

Mark Quayle · Jul 13, 2019

Albion said:
They are people just like us in the way that the governor of your state or the president of the university are "people just like us."

If you would greet them (or the head of your denomination) with a "Hi. How's it goin?," then it probably is understandable if you greet a bishop that way also. However, you can also appreciate why it is that some people think it may call for a bit more. How well you know that dignitary, what the event is, and what his own preferences may be do affect this, as you said.

Government office is not the same as church office. These are not apostles --nowhere near, yet even the apostles at the most (as far as I know) only had the title "apostle" to their name, and apparently rarely that in being addressed. I give denominations respect only so far as they hold to tenets that are near and dear to me, not because they are THE CHURCH, as opposed to some other denomination, and the denominational officials to me are no more than you or me.

I give certain people certain official respect due to the fact that they are in authority over me. Church officials are not. I report directly to God.

Mark Quayle · Jul 13, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Don't you think there was respect in the New Testament?

I see in the NT, divine authority and submission to it --not honor in the sense of "this is a higher being". There were apostles and delegates. That is not how it is today. Nobody is in authority over me, but God.

As far as organization goes, sure, a pastor receives my acquiescence and support --even a certain sort of honor for his having undertaken a "double duty" (so to speak), of teaching God's word, and being himself responsible for every word he says. It is a burden and I honor him for that. But I call no one Reverend, unless it is a nickname.

I answer directly to God. (Having deeply desired to teach the Word, I found myself unable to well connect and communicate orally, so I have reverted to writing at best. So I suppose that is partly why I see others who do what I want to do as equals, but still.... For example, if I am going to do something they might consider as wrong, I don't stop because they are in my presence any more than I would stop because of any other Christians presence. If I let my tongue loose, I don't apologize to them, but to God.

There are no "men of God" today, who speak for God in the sense of the prophets or apostles.

S.O.J.I.A. · Jul 13, 2019

…"hey"..

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jul 13, 2019

W2L said:
Acts 10:26 But Peter pulled him up and said, “Stand up! I’m a human being just like you!”

1 Corinthians 3:5 After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. 6 I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow. 7 It’s not important who does the planting, or who does the watering. What’s important is that God makes the seed grow.

Oh please. We're not worshiping them as if they're gods.

W2L · Jul 13, 2019

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Oh please. We're not worshiping them as if they're gods.

I would hope not.

DanishLutheran · Jul 13, 2019

SaintNick said:
I think it would be the other way around but hey, whatever.

LOL. Is that the pseudo-adult way to say "I know you are, but what am I?"

charsan · Jul 13, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
In civil society in western countries, it used to be customary to use basic titles whether or not you personally believed in that person's religion. Whether the Pope or the Dalai Lama was being interviewed, it didn't matter.

Sadly, we are not that civil anymore

How would you greet a bishop?

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