How were you taught Evolution?

[justlookinla]

Because it doesn't say that God couldn't have set the whole thing in motion!

Show me where there is allowance in the creationist theory for God to set everything in motion. There is none. One and only one explanation for humanity existing today. Godless Darwinist creationism.

 

[sfs]

Naturalistic proccess are those processes which acted on a single life form from long long ago and created humanity.

So if God created, by miraculous means, humanity from a single life form long ago, then God is a naturalistic process. I don't think you've thought this definition (or much of anything else on this subject) through.

Nobody is claiming that natural processes could exist without God, other than the Godless atheistic Darwinist creationists.

So you agree that the natural process of evolution could be a creation of God. Great -- then we're in perfect agreement. You should let that other guy who's posting under your name know.

Nobody is claiming humanity did not exist, but now humanity exists and the reason, the power, impetus for the existence of humanity is by only, completely, solely, totally naturalistic processes acting on a single life form from long long ago, other than the Godless Darwinist creationists.

Deal with that reality.

I deal with the reality of evolution every day, and I've been dealing with the reality of evolution within a Christian context. What I find difficult to deal with is your delusions about what I believe.

 

[sfs]

Show me where there is allowance in the creationist theory for God to set everything in motion.

Where? In the part where I just stated explicitly that God created those mechanisms.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

Not at all. Quatona hasn't reconciled this...

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce"​

With this....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
​

Quatona seems to be very very confused. Or maybe Quatona didn't think about what was being taught. Like many here.

He said straight out that that is what he was taught by the Jesuits. Obviously it is not atheistic. Can you make a substantive response or is evasion your only recourse?

 

[Kylie]

'all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations'

Show me room for God there.

God could have started the whole process in motion by creating the first life, and it is evolution which turned that first life into the myriad forms we have today.

On the other hand:

1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​

and

1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​

Biblical evidence that all the varieties of life come from nature, not created DIRECTLY by God's hand. Thus evolution as a tool used by God is a perfectly valid idea, and is supported by the Bible, and your claim that it is inherently atheistic fails totally.

 

[justlookinla]

I just told you. I'll repeat what I said, since you seem to equate repetition with truth: "What's the difficulty? God created and is sovereign over natural processes, including the natural processes that make up evolution. That's very basic theology. Denying God's involvement in wholly natural processes is tantamount to denying God's role as creator, and is an idea that's quite difficult to reconcile with traditional Christian doctrine."

Instead of just repeating yourself, tell me what the difficulty is.

The difficulty is that this....

"all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"

does not permit this....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

And changing this....""all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"...to this...'all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection, guided by other impetuses, of small, inherited variations'....isn't allowed or permitted.

 

[sfs]

'all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations'

Show me room for God there.

Where God creates and superintends those natural processes. How is that not a role for God?

 

[Kylie]

Show me where there is allowance in the creationist theory for God to set everything in motion. There is none. One and only one explanation for humanity existing today. Godless Darwinist creationism.

There is allowance for God to have set the whole thing in motion because it doesn't say he couldn't have!

 

[Atheos canadensis]

The difficulty is that this....

"all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"

does not permit this....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

And changing this....""all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"...to this...'all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection, guided by other impetuses, of small, inherited variations'....isn't allowed or permitted.

Because "guided by other impetuses" is a positive claim for which there is no empirical evidence. Therefore it can't be taught as science.

 

[sfs]

The difficulty is that this....

"all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"

does not permit this....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

And changing this....""all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"...to this...'all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection, guided by other impetuses, of small, inherited variations'....isn't allowed or permitted.

I guess the answer is that your brain just shuts down. To me, your first quote very much permits your second quote to be true. Now you claim not only that you disagree (which is fine), but that my belief does not exist. And I'd really like you to tell me why you are so arrogant as to tell me what I believe.

 

[justlookinla]

So if God created, by miraculous means, humanity from a single life form long ago, then God is a naturalistic process. I don't think you've thought this definition (or much of anything else on this subject) through.

God isn't allowed in this naturalistic process....

"all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"

So you agree that the natural process of evolution could be a creation of God. Great -- then we're in perfect agreement. You should let that other guy who's posting under your name know.

No, I don't agree that humanity was created solely, completely, totally and only by naturalistic processes acting on a single life form from long long ago.

I deal with the reality of evolution every day,

Betcha its not macro evolution.

and I've been dealing with the reality of evolution within a Christian context. What I find difficult to deal with is your delusions about what I believe.

I'm surprised that you would believe that God as creator would be a delusion.

 

[justlookinla]

Because "guided by other impetuses" is a positive claim for which there is no empirical evidence. Therefore it can't be taught as science.

So, thus, atheistic creationism which has a certain worldview on the creation of humanity. Which isn't science either.

 

[justlookinla]

God could have started the whole process in motion by creating the first life, and it is evolution which turned that first life into the myriad forms we have today.

On the other hand:

1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​

and

1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​

Biblical evidence that all the varieties of life come from nature, not created DIRECTLY by God's hand. Thus evolution as a tool used by God is a perfectly valid idea, and is supported by the Bible, and your claim that it is inherently atheistic fails totally.

Evolution by God isn't the same as Godless evolution.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

God isn't allowed in this naturalistic process....

"all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations".

Why not? Why can't God have set it all up? Why can't he be guiding it even?

 

[justlookinla]

Where God creates and superintends those natural processes. How is that not a role for God?

Again, "all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"

Show me room for God there.

 

[Kylie]

God isn't allowed in this naturalistic process....

"all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"

And the process of how an internal combustion engine works...

"A fuel air mixture is injected into the cylinder. The piston moves up, compressing it, and the spark plug ignites it, causing a rapid expansion of gas which causes the piston to move downwards, transferring energy to the crankshaft which is used to turn the wheels and move the car."

...doesn't allow for me, therefore I do not drive my car.

Seriously, your argument is just stupid and has been demolished utterly many times now. Just drop it, will you?

 

[justlookinla]

I guess the answer is that your brain just shuts down. To me, your first quote very much permits your second quote to be true. Now you claim not only that you disagree (which is fine), but that my belief does not exist. And I'd really like you to tell me why you are so arrogant as to tell me what I believe.

Why are you so deceitful to suggest that this.....

"

​

all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"

Agrees with this....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

 

[justlookinla]

Why not? Why can't God have set it all up? Why can't he be guiding it even?

"all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations".

God isn't allowed in this inherently creationist viewpoint. If He is, you'll have to change the wording. And allow it in public schools of course.

 

[justlookinla]

And the process of how an internal combustion engine works...

"A fuel air mixture is injected into the cylinder. The piston moves up, compressing it, and the spark plug ignites it, causing a rapid expansion of gas which causes the piston to move downwards, transferring energy to the crankshaft which is used to turn the wheels and move the car."

...doesn't allow for me, therefore I do not drive my car.

Seriously, your argument is just stupid and has been demolished utterly many times now. Just drop it, will you?

No humanity. Now humanity. Explain.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

"all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations".

God isn't allowed in this inherently creationist viewpoint. If He is, you'll have to change the wording. And allow it in public schools of course.

Would you please directly address the fact that this allegedly atheist viewpoint is taught in Catholic schools?