How were you taught Evolution?

[justlookinla]

And where does it say that there is no room for God in there?

It says that you're the product of solely naturalistic processes. No God needed. No God permitted. No God allowed. Only one creator, just one......completely naturalistic processes. Any deviation from that is a modification to Darwinist creationism.

 

[sfs]

Point out where anything other than the view that humanity is the creation of anything other than totally, completely, solely, naturalistic mechanisms.

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations"​

No Christian accepts the view that they are a creation of only, totally, completely, solely naturalistic processes acting on a single life form from long long ago.

I just told you: I accept the theory that the quotation describes and I'm a Christian. Your statement that no Christian accepts it is flat-out and utterly wrong. It will continue to be wrong every time you repeat it.

 

[crazyforgod1212]

I just told you: I accept the theory that the quotation describes and I'm a Christian. Your statement that no Christian accepts it is flat-out and utterly wrong. It will continue to be wrong every time you repeat it.

It's not uncommon for Christians to get sucked up by the godless delusions of the world.

 

[sfs]

It says that you're the product of solely naturalistic processes.

No, of solely natural processes. I don't know what naturalistic processes are.

No God needed.

Nope. That's something you invented out of whole cloth. Where did you ever get the idea that natural processes could exist without God, or that to posit a natural process is to deny God's role? I don't know how much science you know, but your theology is very bad.

No God permitted. No God allowed.

More made-up stuff.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

Do you understand the word "inherently"? As in 'inherently atheistic'?

Hmm, you somehow seem to have neglected to respond to my post where I show even more explicitly than previously that you are wrong. Here it is again. Hopefully you will not continue to avoid it.

I'm certain you understand this, but let's lay it out clearly so you can't hide behind ambiguity.

You posted the following definition and claimed it was "atheistic creationism":

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce"

Quatona has informed us that this definition conforms to what he was taught in Catholic school. This refutes your notion that the above definition is inherently atheistic.

 

[Kylie]

It says that you're the product of solely naturalistic processes. No God needed. No God permitted. No God allowed. Only one creator, just one......completely naturalistic processes. Any deviation from that is a modification to Darwinist creationism.

Answer the question. Where does it say that there is no room for God?

 

[sfs]

It's not uncommon for Christians to get sucked up by the godless delusions of the world.

This is (a) irrelevant, since the claim was that no Christian accepts Darwinian evolution, not that only lower-quality Christians accept it; and (b) arrogant, offensive and a really convenient dodge to avoid thinking about difficult issues.

 

[justlookinla]

What's the difficulty? God created and is sovereign over natural processes, including the natural processes that make up evolution. That's very basic theology. Denying God's involvement in wholly natural processes is tantamount to denying God's role as creator, and is an idea that's quite difficult to reconcile with traditional Christian doctrine.

The insurmountable difficulty is this.....

The fact is that God isn't the creator of naturalistic processes in this worldview...

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations "​

...is in direct opposition to this theistic creationist worldview....

"Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
"​

Now, if one were to change the definition to this....

'Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection, and other directed mechanisms, of small, inherited variations'​

....that would allow for non-atheistic creationist impetuses. Not that the theory would be correct, but it wouldn't be an inherently atheistic creationist viewpoint.

 

[justlookinla]

It also conforms to what I've taught in my church, with the full approval of our ministerial staff. (Not that I taught that people had to believe it, but I explained what the theory was, why scientists accept it, and why Christians can accept it.)

Tell me about your church's teaching that mankind is the result of only, totally, completely, solely naturalistic processes acting on a single life form from long long ago.

Bump.

 

[justlookinla]

I just told you: I accept the theory that the quotation describes and I'm a Christian. Your statement that no Christian accepts it is flat-out and utterly wrong. It will continue to be wrong every time you repeat it.

And every time you embrace the Godless creationist viewpoint of Darwinist creationism I will challenge you to reconcile this.....

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations "
​

with this.....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
​

Show me in the Darwinist creationist viewpoint where there is allowance for...Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

 

[Kylie]

And every time you embrace the Godless creationist viewpoint of Darwinist creationism I will challenge you to reconcile this.....

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations "
​

with this.....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
​

Show me in the Darwinist creationist viewpoint where there is allowance for...Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Because it doesn't say that God couldn't have set the whole thing in motion!

 

[Atheos canadensis]

Bump.

Bump

 

[Kylie]

Tell me about your church's teaching that mankind is the result of only, totally, completely, solely naturalistic processes acting on a single life form from long long ago.

Where did you get the word ONLY from?

 

[Atheos canadensis]

And every time you embrace the Godless creationist viewpoint of Darwinist creationism I will challenge you to reconcile this.....

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations "
​

with this.....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
​

Show me in the Darwinist creationist viewpoint where there is allowance for...Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

The fact that the above definition is, as we have heard from Quatona, taught in Christian schools, the theory you're describing must not be inherently atheistic.

 

[sfs]

The insurmountable difficulty is this.....

The fact is that God isn't the creator of naturalistic processes in this worldview...

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations "​

...is in direct opposition to this theistic creationist worldview....

"Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
"​

Now, if one were to change the definition to this....

'Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection, and other directed mechanisms, of small, inherited variations'​

....that would allow for non-atheistic creationist impetuses. Not that the theory would be correct, but it wouldn't be an inherently atheistic creationist viewpoint.

I'm afraid there's only one person making heretical claims in this thread, and it's you. The idea that natural processes are inherently atheistic is profoundly non-Christian.

I will repeat myself: I believe that God created the natural processes that make up evolution, and that the diversity of life we see is the result of those natural processes. You claim my beliefs cannot exist. So please explain: Do I not exist? Am I (along with millions of others) lying about my beliefs? Does your brain just shut down completely when confronted with a fact that doesn't fit your preconceptions? What exactly is going on in your head when you keep repeating this refrain?

 

[justlookinla]

No, of solely natural processes. I don't know what naturalistic processes are.

Naturalistic proccess are those processes which acted on a single life form from long long ago and created humanity.

Nope. That's something you invented out of whole cloth. Where did you ever get the idea that natural processes could exist without God, or that to posit a natural process is to deny God's role? I don't know how much science you know, but your theology is very bad.

Nobody is claiming that natural processes could exist without God, other than the Godless atheistic Darwinist creationists. Nobody is claiming humanity did not exist, but now humanity exists and the reason, the power, impetus for the existence of humanity is by only, completely, solely, totally naturalistic processes acting on a single life form from long long ago, other than the Godless Darwinist creationists.

Deal with that reality.

 

[sfs]

And every time you embrace the Godless creationist viewpoint of Darwinist creationism I will challenge you to reconcile this.....

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations "
​

with this.....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
​

Show me in the Darwinist creationist viewpoint where there is allowance for...Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

I just told you. I'll repeat what I said, since you seem to equate repetition with truth: "What's the difficulty? God created and is sovereign over natural processes, including the natural processes that make up evolution. That's very basic theology. Denying God's involvement in wholly natural processes is tantamount to denying God's role as creator, and is an idea that's quite difficult to reconcile with traditional Christian doctrine."

Instead of just repeating yourself, tell me what the difficulty is.

 

[justlookinla]

Hmm, you somehow seem to have neglected to respond to my post where I show even more explicitly than previously that you are wrong. Here it is again. Hopefully you will not continue to avoid it.

I'm certain you understand this, but let's lay it out clearly so you can't hide behind ambiguity.

You posted the following definition and claimed it was "atheistic creationism":

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce"

Quatona has informed us that this definition conforms to what he was taught in Catholic school. This refutes your notion that the above definition is inherently atheistic.

Not at all. Quatona hasn't reconciled this...

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce"​

With this....

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
​

Quatona seems to be very very confused. Or maybe Quatona didn't think about what was being taught. Like many here.

 

[justlookinla]

Answer the question. Where does it say that there is no room for God?

'all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations'

Show me room for God there.

 

[Kylie]

I'm afraid there's only one person making heretical claims in this thread, and it's you. The idea that natural processes are inherently atheistic is profoundly non-Christian.

I will repeat myself: I believe that God created the natural processes that make up evolution, and that the diversity of life we see is the result of those natural processes. You claim my beliefs cannot exist. So please explain: Do I not exist? Am I (along with millions of others) lying about my beliefs? Does your brain just shut down completely when confronted with a fact that doesn't fit your preconceptions? What exactly is going on in your head when you keep repeating this refrain?

Quoted for pwnage.