How Unequal Can America Get Before We Snap?

[rambot]

The poor were more visible in his day. I don't know who they are today.

So you think they just exist? It is not hard to find the poor. It is not hard to find an organization that supports the poor in meaningful ways that you could support.
What you provided here was a perfect distillation of the "ivory tower".

I don't even think about money that I don't have in my possession.

If you complain about paying taxes, you do.

I know what I would do, and the poor wouldn't like it. As I said it's my way or the highway. The way it is now I give my money to someone, who spends it in ways I don't like. That's nonsense. Like the man said, "I no maka da rules, I no playa da game."

I'm not so sure Jesus said that. I didn't know this was a commandment given by him that had an opt out clause. Interesting. Several times throughout this thread the idea has been presented that the money we make isn't really our own so much as God's. Do you share that view?

Who is responsible for educating us about the poor problem? I haven't received a detailed report.

Why can't it be your responsibility to learn instead of someone else's responsibility to teach you? It's not like you can't do a google search and find several hundred organizations that work with the poor; research papers that could help you learn. I understand your lack of motivation allows you to keep more of your money though and I'm sure that's comforting.

I have no problem with how my taxes are spent. If I don't like something the government is doing I just pretend that my taxes went to something they're doing that I like.

So then, you not only do NOT give money to the poor, you pretend NONE of your money is going to the poor? This feels more and more weird.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So you think they just exist? It is not hard to find the poor. It is not hard to find an organization that supports the poor in meaningful ways that you could support.
What you provided here was a perfect distillation of the "ivory tower".

I've given lot's of money to charity, freely, happily, begrudging not a penny. But that was then and this is now. What is needed is a better plan if indeed there is a real problem. That has yet to be established.

If you complain about paying taxes, you do.

I don't. I think taxes should be raised.

I'm not so sure Jesus said that. I didn't know this was a commandment given by him that had an opt out clause. Interesting. Several times throughout this thread the idea has been presented that the money we make isn't really our own so much as God's. Do you share that view?

Jesus was a 'my way' guy as well. He wanted things done in an orderly manner, and insisted that his disciples do what he told them.

We are to be good steward's of what God has blessed us with. To me that means getting a dollars worth of results for every dollar spent. Charities are notorious for misusing donations and kiting administrative costs.

Why can't it be your responsibility to learn instead of someone else's responsibility to teach you? It's not like you can't do a google search and find several hundred organizations that work with the poor; research papers that could help you learn. I understand your lack of motivation allows you to keep more of your money though and I'm sure that's comforting.

No. The problem, as presented, is too big and complex. The predictable results of most studies is that "we need more money".

So then, you not only do NOT give money to the poor, you pretend NONE of your money is going to the poor? This feels more and more weird.

I don't begrudge that 25 percent of my taxes are going to the poor. More should go to them. I object to other government spending.

What would you think about work camps for the poor?

 

[nightflight]

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[OldWiseGuy]

I've given lot's of money to charity, freely, happily, begrudging not a penny. But that was then and this is now. What is needed is a better plan if indeed there is a real problem. That has yet to be established.



I don't. I think taxes should be raised.



Jesus was a 'my way' guy as well. He wanted things done in an orderly manner, and insisted that his disciples do what he told them.

We are to be good steward's of what God has blessed us with. To me that means getting a dollars worth of results for every dollar spent. Charities are notorious for misusing donations and kiting administrative costs.



No. The problem, as presented, is too big and complex. The predictable results of most studies is that "we need more money".



I don't begrudge that 25 percent of my taxes are going to the poor. More should go to them. I object to other government spending.

What would you think about work camps for the poor?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

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[OldWiseGuy]

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[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

unfortunate, the only one that will be snapping are the poor and the middle class who are under siege, the rich are doing just fine, thank you!

that is why they detest Bernie Sanders.

maybe they will die happier knowing they have hoarded all their wealth, all TO THEMSELVES!

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

So this professor is basically telling the poor that it's okay to be envious.
Indulge in your envy, even though you get some, they get a lot more, and therefore your envy is justified.

This video is disgusting. Rather figuring out and teaching people to morally not be envious, he teaches people their envy is correct.

wow, coming from a Christian?

poor are envious?

no, they are struggling, and they are being screwed by those who are rich...

 

[toastface_grillah]

I'm not doing either. Neither the poor or the government want my help, so why should I do anything other than pay my taxes.

The poor don't deserve the same as I provide for my family, and they don't expect it.

Why not? It's attitudes like this that make government "handouts" more appealing than charity. Better to fill out paperwork in triplicate and attach documentation than to jump through all kinds of hoops and ladders to prove yourself "deserving" of help.

I know what I would do, and the poor wouldn't like it. As I said it's my way or the highway. The way it is now I give my money to someone, who spends it in ways I don't like. That's nonsense. Like the man said, "I no maka da rules, I no playa da game." However, I'm quite generous if I can make the rules.

I'm going to guess that you're more interested in telling people what to do than in helping them. And in that case, why would anyone want your help? The poor people who are practically killing themselves to get ahead, too busy working themselves to the bone to even think about getting drunk already have enough to deal with without being lectured in exchange for a morsel or two of table scraps.
It's the height of arrogance to lump everyone under a certain financial threshold as childlike, less than human, and in need of a constant, neverending rod of correction.
With all due respect, feel free to take that generosity and buy yourself a yacht instead.

 

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

wow, coming from a Christian?

poor are envious?

no, they are struggling, and they are being screwed by those who are rich...

did you watch the video? He basically said reject it, if it means the rich get more rich, even if the poor gets some of it.

He advocates that none of the pie, is better than some of the pie, if your neighbor gets more of the pie.

That is what the guy preaches.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Why not? It's attitudes like this that make government "handouts" more appealing than charity. Better to fill out paperwork in triplicate and attach documentation than to jump through all kinds of hoops and ladders to prove yourself "deserving" of help.




I'm going to guess that you're more interested in telling people what to do than in helping them. And in that case, why would anyone want your help? The poor people who are practically killing themselves to get ahead, too busy working themselves to the bone to even think about getting drunk already have enough to deal with without being lectured in exchange for a morsel or two of table scraps.
It's the height of arrogance to lump everyone under a certain financial threshold as childlike, less than human, and in need of a constant, neverending rod of correction.
With all due respect, feel free to take that generosity and buy yourself a yacht instead.

That pic was awesome. Make bumper stickers and put em on republicans vehicles.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

did you watch the video? He basically said reject it, if it means the rich get more rich, even if the poor gets some of it.

He advocates that none of the pie, is better than some of the pie, if your neighbor gets more of the pie.

That is what the guy preaches.

actually, did you only watch the first 10 minutes of the video?

or maybe you only see what you want to see?

or maybe you already made up your mind about this issue, and you are looking for evidences to back up your position?

because he actually rejected that it is good idea that majority of the newly created wealth should go to the top

in fact, he stated, among many things, that in today's society, parents income are more likely to determine kids income, it is harder and harder for kids born into poverty to get out of it!

in fact, he emphasize many changes need to be made , to ensure things like quality education for all.

seriously, I can not believe you would so cruel towards those who are most vulnerable in the society!

you attitude is like, 'well, throw them some crumbs, that is enough"

no it is NOT ENOUGH

a society based on Christian values would be one that actively help the poor to get out of their circumestances

a society based on Christian values would be one that want EVERYONE to have good health care when they are sick.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

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I'm going to guess that you're more interested in telling people what to do than in helping them.

If that's what they need.

The poor people who are practically killing themselves to get ahead,

Some look for jobs, others look for handouts. Ever hear of "welfare magnet".

The poor people who are practically killing themselves to get ahead, too busy working themselves to the bone to even think about getting drunk already have enough to deal with without being lectured in exchange for a morsel or two of table scraps.

"Feed the Children" makes them listen to a sermon before the food is handed out. People that have screwed up their lives need to be lectured. My kids always got a lecture when they screwed up. I did too.

It's the height of arrogance to lump everyone under a certain financial threshold as childlike, less than human, and in need of a constant, never ending rod of correction.

The poor will 'pass under the rod' and be separated into different catagories. And some will need to be treated like ignorant children.

With all due respect, feel free to take that generosity and buy yourself a yacht instead.

Can't do that, it would provide jobs (trickle down and all that).

What I have done is to make my whole fortune available for low interest loans (while I myself live a very austere lifestyle; 'minimalist' I believe it's called). Those who are in a position to 'get ahead' should benefit from that.

 

[FanthatSpark]

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/23/culture-of-cruelty-the-age-of-neoliberal-authoritarianism/
Excerpt below from article above: A must read.

In this discourse soaring inequality in wealth and income, high levels of unemployment, stagnant economic growth and low wages for millions of working Americans are willfully covered over and covered up. What Brooks, Bush, and other conservatives consistently obfuscate is the racist nature of the drug war, police violence, the stranglehold of the criminal justice system on poor black communities, , the egregious effect of “racially skewed patterns of mass incarceration,” mass unemployment for underserved youth, and poor quality education in low income neighborhoods Paul Krugman gets it right in rebutting the argument that all the poor need are the virtues of middle class morality and a good dose of resilience. He counters: “The poor don’t need lectures on morality, they need more resources — which we can afford to provide — and better economic opportunities, which we can also afford to provide through everything from training and subsidies to higher minimum wages.”

Its us in complacency correct? As we help the poor in good conscious we actually need to refocus the lens to grabbing this government back correct? Rebuilding, refunding and remanning "for need" programs. We have to clear out this corporate animal. We have to unite on common ground not argue our present reality created by the old in complacency and the young in this is how it is. Its not how it was. Instead of treating the illness why not refocus our churches (The only serious helpers left) to taking back democracy not corporation? I have said before we are Legion but broken in focus of the illness not the cause. Read that article for that thing rarely seen...TRUTH.

 

[rambot]

Work camps for the poor? Work camps for the unemployed sure. Work camps for those on welfare? Probably wouldn't work. I'm sure I don't need to explain why though.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Work camps for the poor? Work camps for the unemployed sure. Work camps for those on welfare? Probably wouldn't work. I'm sure I don't need to explain why though.

We sort them according to their situation.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Paul Krugman gets it right in rebutting the argument that all the poor need are the virtues of middle class morality and a good dose of resilience. He counters: “The poor don’t need lectures on morality, they need more resources — which we can afford to provide — and better economic opportunities, which we can also afford to provide through everything from training and subsidies to higher minimum wages.”

Morality (not the ToE) is the foundation of knowledge of a civilized people. More poverty can be traced to immorality than any other cause. Repair the foundation first, then build the house.

 

[toastface_grillah]

Work camps for the poor? Work camps for the unemployed sure. Work camps for those on welfare? Probably wouldn't work. I'm sure I don't need to explain why though.

Something like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps
That, and the Works Progress Administration wouldn't be terrible ideas nowadays. We have tons of faulty infrastructure (among other things that need repair) and tons of people who would probably love to learn a trade/new skill that they can support themselves with later on. Why not bring the two together?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Something like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps
That, and the Works Progress Administration wouldn't be terrible ideas nowadays. We have tons of faulty infrastructure (among other things that need repair) and tons of people who would probably love to learn a trade/new skill that they can support themselves with later on. Why not bring the two together?

My son has done concrete work for years while going to school. He graduated years ago but nothing has opened up for him. Recently he hired on as a concrete finisher for a large union company at $60,000 per year. Not bad for a 'fallback' job.

 

[Ken-1122]

Back in 2005 Robert Reich, a visiting professor at the UC Berkeley's Goldman School of Public Policy and former U.S. Secretary of Labor talked about the inequality of income, wealth and opportunity in the United States and asked his audience to speculate on what will happen if these trends continue.

Inequality of wealth and income is not the problem, and as long as most people don't feel that they are being held back, nothing will happen.

Ken