How Unequal Can America Get Before We Snap?

[nightflight]

Perhaps that's why every city in the US have cardboard cities with people living in the streets, where do they get the power from to run those big screen TV's?
I think you're living in a dream land, some people in the US live like people in the third world and not like people living in the richest country (in money not morals) in the world.

Note that I used the word, "often".

Comprehension is your friend.

 

[nightflight]

Sigh. Do we have to hear how good our poor people have it?

But that's not what I said. Is your position so weak that you have to misrepresent what I said?

I thought you guys were all about "nuance".

 

[The Antigrrrl]

Perhaps that's why every city in the US have cardboard cities with people living in the streets, where do they get the power from to run those big screen TV's?
I think you're living in a dream land, some people in the US live like people in the third world and not like people living in the richest country (in money not morals) in the world, if the US is a Christian country others might think it advisable to avoid Christianity like the plague.

"every city in the US have cardboard cities"? Please cite your source, this I have to read.

 

[StanMann]

"every city in the US have cardboard cities"? Please cite your source, this I have to read.

These are just a few sites telling of homelessness in the richest most unfair society in the industrialised world.

http://www.studentsagainsthunger.org/page/hhp/overview-homelessness-America

http://www.endhomelessness.org/library/entry/the-state-of-homelessness-in-america-2015

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/20/hawaii-declares-state-of-emergency-homelessness

 

[HannahT]

Again , I am not advocating doing away with welfare, just a realistic look at what works/ what doesn't and fixing what doesn't without people whining that you want to starve babies. Don't tell people who see abuse of the system on a day to day basis that the system is not broken.

We do need to look at this realistically. You know people don't want to when they whine about the starving babies, and how if don't agree with them - you want starving babies. It a different type of privilege they don't want to talk about.

Problem is the welfare system isn't the only thing that needs to get fixed. You have child welfare systems, and lack of mental health for EVERYONE that lives here. Goodness knows the list goes on.

Then - like it or not - you do need to have plan for those individuals that feel they shouldn't have to do ANYTHING to help themselves. I know some, and have known some. They burn their bridges, and look for the next free ride. You aren't suppose to talk about them, because that's labeling 'everyone' that is poor - another part of that different type of privilege.

The last man we helped still bothers me, because he has potential - I mean TRUE potential. Sadly, he thinks the world owes him, and he will take it anyway he can get it. He has been taken in by so many families, and setup in so many programs - and he blew every last one of them. The last family gave him a car - not a great one, but a car none the less. The group of struggling young people that he is currently sponging off of just caught him stealing from them. They are poor as church mice, and live in a place that needs to be condemned...but they own him too. I'm not sure how you get through to him that he owes himself something that would bring a decent sense of self image - or whatever it is. He is like Jerkyl/Hyde. I waffle between feeling sorry for him, and being mad at him all the time. I don't know how to show him the potential I see, and at times I don't think he wants to either. His way works for him. You can't legislate that type of attitude, or worldview. If you want to throw money at him? He will take it, but it won't change a thing.

 

[rambot]

I know it to be true, according to her she brings in about the same as my family does. Money did not keep her from bringing somebody around her daughters who was on the registry with fully predictable results. Thank God the state finally took all her kids and placed them with family that is slightly less useless.

I've worked with a few families like this at my last job. We were able to help everyone.

What kind of person goes out and has a child knowing they cannot even support themselves?

SOOOO many kinds; mental health (or lower functioning) kind; FASD kind; the raped kind; the hopeful-they-could-give-a-child-the-love-they-never- received kind.

This is not parenting material and yet we continue to subsidize it in my state with basically no strings attached.
Once is a mistake maybe but I personally know women who continue to have children, full well knowing they cannot feed them.

Sure. Me too. Even worked with some. At my current job, we are aware of a woman who has a kid about every 16 months. She's at number (I think) 16. EVERY kid has been taken by the state. There are not many like them and they are not well.

This is what destabilizes families " I don't need no man, the government will pay for my kids!" No consequence to continuing to make cruddy choices, somebody else pays for it.

Of the families I've worked with, not a SINGLE one have EVER said that. Ever. Never ever ever. They don't want the government involved because they ALWAYS fear the govt. will take away their kids. Again, the attitude you are describing is more of a mental health issue than a broken system issue.

I had a friend growing up whose family was on assistance. Her mom got full college funding, still did not graduate and 4 out of her 5 kids remain on some form of state aid. The only one who isn't is because she married a good guy.

Yes, we've all "had friends" growing up like that. I have no response to anecdotal evidence other than to counteract it with stories of success. And then, eventually, our stories will simply cancel each other out.

Again , I am not advocating doing away with welfare, just a realistic look at what works/ what doesn't and fixing what doesn't without people whining that you want to starve babies. Don't tell people who see abuse of the system on a day to day basis that the system is not broken.

We don't live in the same area. But let me tell you I work IN THAT VERY system. Saying the whole system is broken belies a LOT of good work that are being done by social agencies and family workers. It is not fair to say EVERYTHING is broken because of a few bad eggs. I can tell you stories of families I've worked with where they did great things.
All that said, to simply say "what works and what doesn't work" is EXTREMELY simplistic. Each and every family has their own struggles and, not only that, each individual will always respond differently to different kinds of supports. There is no blanket response; even in seemingly identical family struggles, the response will vary. Not only that but chances are VERY good that poverty is not the ONLY issue for these families (abuse and mental health [and sometimes but not always addiction] are VERY corrollary to poverty in my experience).

 

[rambot]

Thanks for this. It describes my mother.

Then you are lucky. There are many, many, MANY kids who do not have that. It's overwhelmingly sad to hear the stories in my work place (as an example....a kid whose mom refused to sign her up for school [the kid was a crack dealer]. Kids wanted to go to school and told her mom she'd front her some crack if she signed her up. The rest of the story is too sad to bring up).

You can't hear stories like I hear and think that not having enough money is the poor class's only problem.

 

[rambot]

Note that I used the word, "often".

Comprehension is your friend.

And why wouldn't you use the word "often"? It is vague enough that you can cop out when the arguments get to the root of the issues.

 

[rambot]

That's why I have no pity for them at all. Even the homeless street people are phonies.

Are you serious? There ARE street people who are phonies. There are many who are decrepit, broken, unwell.

Having "no pity" for the homeless? I will have to assume you are not a Christian. Am I right?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Are you serious? There ARE street people who are phonies. There are many who are decrepit, broken, unwell.

Having "no pity" for the homeless? I will have to assume you are not a Christian. Am I right?

I am a Christian, but I'm fresh out of pity for those people. I would gladly help them in a dispassionate, dutiful way, but they would refuse my help. Therefore they're on their own. (It's my way or the highway.)

 

[rambot]

But that's not what I said. Is your position so weak that you have to misrepresent what I said?

I thought you guys were all about "nuance".

As I see it, you made two points:
Poor people have luxuries.
Poor people are better off in the US than in other countries because they have these luxuries.

Instead of complaining that he didn't "get" what you said, why don't you reiterate what you said so that your meaning is clearer. Cause I don't really see how your opinion is "nuanced" and so different than what he said.

 

[rambot]

I am a Christian, but I'm fresh out of pity for those people. I would gladly help them in a dispassionate, dutiful way, but they would refuse my help. Therefore they're on their own. (It's my way or the highway.)

As a Christian if you are "fresh out of pity for those people", the problem isn't "those people"...the problem is your lack of compassion and grace.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

As a Christian if you are "fresh out of pity for those people", the problem isn't "those people"...the problem is your lack of compassion and grace.

I see poverty as an easily solvable problem. If my way isn't implemented I'm taking my pity and going home. I won't remain and be insulted by either the poor or those who are in charge of 'helping' the poor. I won't waste my time or compassion on a cause that I have no authority over.

That said I still pay taxes, and don't begrudge much of it going to help the poor.

 

[rambot]

I see poverty as an easily solvable problem. If my way isn't implemented I'm taking my pity and going home. I won't remain and be insulted by either the poor or those who are in charge of 'helping' the poor. I won't waste my time or compassion on a cause that I have no authority over.

That said I still pay taxes, and don't begrudge much of it going to help the poor.

Makes me a little sad that you think compassion is EVER a waste. I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[StanMann]

I see poverty as an easily solvable problem. If my way isn't implemented I'm taking my pity and going home. I won't remain and be insulted by either the poor or those who are in charge of 'helping' the poor. I won't waste my time or compassion on a cause that I have no authority over.

It's your kind of Christianity that is causing people to abandon Christianity by the millions every year in the US,
come the time of the next presidential election there will be approximately 3 million fewer Christians in the US,
what are the odds that the next president will not be a Republican?

 

[TheBear]

We still buying into the myth of gender pay inequality?

 

[toastface_grillah]

Sigh. Do we have to hear how good our poor people have it? Really? Millions did not have access to affordable healthcare. And I doubt VERY highly that you would want to live ONE DAY in the kind of places many of the poor in America live.

Is it better than sub-Saharan Africa? Probably. Is that our goal in the USA to be as good or better than Sub Saharan Africa levels of poverty?

Can we possibly set the bar lower for ourselves so that we don't have to worry about the rich giving up their privileged position?

Yes we do. Because American exceptionalism and freedom!

 

[rambot]

Yes we do. Because American exceptionalism and freedom!

That eagle does not look well.

 

[StanMann]

Yes we do. Because American exceptionalism and freedom!

That should read, because of 'some' Americans exceptionalism and freedom, not all Americans enjoy exceptionalism and freedom, quite a few Americans are trapped in jobs they hate just to keep their medical insurance.

 

[toastface_grillah]

That eagle does not look well.

Not to worry, just a little vitamin A deficiency.