How to walk in the Spirit.

[Ligurian]

Interesting, you are probably the first I encountered who recognized that there are 2 gospels in Galatians 2:7-9 but also declare "I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of God for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Why do you want to be under the gospel of the kingdom?

And you are only the second I've met who see there are two gospels at all. Someone called down anathema on me, because that person didn't read the next chapter of Paul. It's not hard language is it. But they want to treat the whole NT like it's one big salad bar where they can pick and choose what suits their human mind.

Why do I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of God? Because of all this-->

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me... If ye love Me, keep My commandments... For My yoke [is] easy, and My burden is light... These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name... Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

 

[fhansen]

Salvation can't be "Lost"., as it was never found. Its a Gift that is given.

Gifts can be unopened, or opened, perhaps used, and then thrown away.

So, what you are trying to prove, fhansen, is that you have more power to lose your salvation, then God's Blood has the power to keep it for you, if you are born again, and not just water baptized.

What I know, is that the will of man is never removed from the "equation". Are you sure you aren't Calvinist yourself? Try to gain understanding instead of thinking you already possess it, which is why you don't have as much as you could. Here are some relevant teachings, that focus on the human side of the "equation".

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one's own responsibility. By free will one shapes one's own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.

And the only thing that will fully keep man from straying, that will fully bind man to God, that fully defines man's righteousness, is when he fully loves God with his whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. And, again, that necessarily involves both a divine gift, and a human choice. God loves man so much that He will not override that freedom-and He knows that love will not be real unless we value and freely embrace it for ourselves. It's quite simple-but only with grace. And it has nothing to do with how we-or God- imagine ourselves to be-but on who we are-in and through Him.

So, is that your law keeping? and your self effort, and your commandment keeping or anyone's "enduring to the end" by self effort ????

Do you think that persistent, grave sin will keep you in God's kindness? Or that sinless/lawfulness is guaranteed for a believer? Scripture tells us otherwise. It's all a cooperative effort in any case.

 

[fhansen]

So, is God's "Kindness'"< something you do for yourself, flansen??

Of course not-God is eternally, infinitely kind. And yet, He has criteria-not whim- for why we may or may not experience that kindness-and why we may not continue in it.

 

[Ligurian]

How can i "dismiss" the KOG when Im in it, and It's in me?

If you read my Threads and Posts, they are all teaching you how to exist within the KOG, as the "renewed mind".

Where have you NOT called yourself a teacher, Sidon? So, how do you think you can pretend to have kept this commandment:

Matthew 23:10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.NKJV

The Kingdom Gospel has its own standards, and will easily show-up those who do not conform to its laws.

John 14:24 He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings: and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Therefore, if you want to be a teacher, try very hard to stick to Paul's writings, because Paul says the gentiles do have teachers.

Paul you know well enough to get by in a pinch. But you within the circumcision... that just makes you look like a wolf among His sheep. But even that will turn out to the good, for His sheep won't hear you, and you'll eventually be found guilty of Matthew 23:13.

 

[Clare73]

"No, no, no, no. . .no. . .NO!" It means exactly what it says, and in context with the rest of the chapter. And aligns with the other passages I listed an the rest of Scripture to boot! Of course the law can't make us righteous, of course no one is justified by the law-but God gives us the power to fulfill it nonetheless-even if we never hear it. Why? Because
"the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good" (Rom 7:12).

Absolutely!

It was sin that gave the curse of the law the power to kill. (1 Corinthians 15:56)

The law isn't the problem-we are. What the law is powerless to do

Then your throw-away comment:

"Paul agreed with his practical/spiritual statement:
"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but
it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13"

serves to demonstrate your misunderstanding of Romans 2:13 in your post #1045,
which is my point there, that:

Paul does not affirm the law as a means of rightesouness in Romans 2:13, he denies it there, as an indictment of the unrighteousness of all the Jews, which when added to the unrighteousness of all the Gentiles demonstrated in 1:18-32, results in the unrighteousness of all mankind (3:9-10, ff), leaving the only possible righteousness to be from God, by faith (Romans 3:21, Romans 1:17; Philippians 3:9).

That righteousness from God by faith is the meaning of justification--declared not guilty, declared righteous, a right position/standing with God.

In addition to being declared righteous/sanctified/holy by God, through faith in Christ's atoning death on the cross (i.e., justification),
the NT likewise teaches being made righteous/sanctified/holy by the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers (i.e., process of sanctification), through obedience in the Holy Spirit.

Hang in there. . .and think about it.

There is no declaration of righteousness (justification) by law keeping, as in your throw-away comment of post #1045.

 

[Ligurian]

IN the time of the Gentiles, there is one Gospel.
Its this. John 14:6

Nonsense. Because the reverse is also true, and so is all of this... "cometh unto the Father" "learned of the Father" "the men which Thou gavest Me" "believe on Me through their word"

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.
+
John 6:44 No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me.
+
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest Me to do. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, [art] in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
+
17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine.
+
17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;

This isn't about anyone but the Galilean Apostles and those who believe their writings today.

You might even want to call it a separate dispensation from that of Pauline gentiles, if that works for you, since these 11 are the stewards of the Kingdom Gospel.

 

[Guojing]

And you are only the second I've met who see there are two gospels at all. Someone called down anathema on me, because that person didn't read the next chapter of Paul. It's not hard language is it. But they want to treat the whole NT like it's one big salad bar where they can pick and choose what suits their human mind.

Why do I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of God? Because of all this-->

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me... If ye love Me, keep My commandments... For My yoke [is] easy, and My burden is light... These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name... Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Yes, Galatians 2:7-9 is one of the reasons why some people don't like KJV, but prefer the modern versions. I have been called all sorts of names and had people even proclaiming I am of the devil, because I take the KJV literally there. =)

But then, those who are able to recognize that there are 2 gospels in that passage are usually mid acts dispensationalists. We will know that the gospel of the kingdom is no longer the gospel that saves today, so how can you choose to follow that?

 

[fhansen]

It was sin that gave the curse of the law the power to kill. (1 Corinthians 15:56)

This just means that the law reveals us to be sinners. It can only serve to condemn since we can't live up to its demands as fallen beings, even though it accurately describes righteousness for man. It tells us that something's very much wrong with the human race.

Then your throw-away comment:

"Paul agreed with his practical/spiritual statement:
"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but
it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13"

serves to demonstrate your misunderstanding of Romans 2:13 in your post #1045,
which is my point there, that:

Paul does not affirm the law as a means of rightesouness in Romans 2:13

But that's exactly what I've been saying, that the law is not the means to righteousness-and Paul isn't saying that either. He's only saying that until and unless we actually are righteous, we won't be righteous. Again, he's only saying what John said,
"The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous." 1 John 3:6

And there's only one authentic way to achieve that, known by Jesus, of course, and all New Testament authors:
"So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Gal 5:16-18

he denies it there, as an indictment of the unrighteousness of all the Jews, which when added to the unrighteousness of all the Gentiles demonstrated in 1:18-32, results in the unrighteousness of all mankind (3:9-10, ff), leaving the only possible righteousness to be from God, by faith (Romans 3:21, Romans 1:17; Philippians 3:9).

Rom 2 is simply telling us what it takes to be righteous, Jew and Gentile alike. Before 2:13 he even says,
"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile." Rom 2:7-10

Hang in there. . .and think about it.

There is no declaration of righteousness (justification) by law keeping, as in your throw-away comment of post #1045.

Better not dare throw it away there Clare-it's the wisdom of the gospel. God gives us authentic righteousness, and then expects us to walk in it:
“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

Hang in there. . .and think about it.

 

[ozso]

Paul didnt.
So, as i just told another member... = BEFORE you had a Pope, a Calvin, a Arminian, a " cult of Mary" or a "church father", you had Paul.

I teach Paul.
"Pauline Theology".

Just go to the source, and bypass all the other "stuff", and all turns out well in the end.

The problem is you are saying that only the "Pauline Theology" you teach leads to someone being born again and saved.

 

[Hmm]

This just means that the law reveals us to be sinners. It can only serve to condemn since we can't live up to its demands as fallen beings, even though it accurately describes righteousness for man. It tells us that something's very much wrong with the human race.

But that's exactly what I've been saying, that the law is not the means to righteousness-and Paul isn't saying that either. He's only saying that until and unless we actually are righteous, we won't be righteous. Again, he's only saying what John said,
"The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous." 1 John 3:6

And there's only one authentic way to achieve that, known by Jesus, of course, and all New Testament authors:
"So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Gal 5:16-18

Rom 2 is simply telling us what it takes to be righteous, Jew and Gentile alike. Before 2:13 he even says,
"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile." Rom 2:7-10

Better not dare throw it away there Clare-it's the wisdom of the gospel. God gives us authentic righteousness, and then expects us to walk in it:
“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

Hang in there. . .and think about it.

A question if I may. I agree that it's impossible for us to fulfil the law perfectly. And Jesus even seemed to strengthen the law with statements like this:

You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart Matthew 5:27-28.

It's clearly impossible for to go through an entire life and not have lustful thoughts at times even if you are a Chief Eunuch. So the law and precepts like these set a standard that we can't achieve however hard we try.

But is this possible even if we walk in the Spirit? I can see that we would be transformed into a more Christ-like image but even so we remain sinners and still fall short. So it's not clear to me why the law is there at all. It seems that its only function is to tell us that we're always going to fail even if we live in the Spirit.

 

[Sidon]

Right. . .as far as it goes. . .but what about the rest that Paul teaches in the Scriptures presented in post #977?
What are they, chopped liver?
Paul says in the very same epistle you quote, "those sanctified in Chirst are called to be holy."
(1 Corinthians 1:2)
You can't just skip over that, or waltz right by it like it doesn't exist.
And this takes us back to what I pointed out to you in the beginning as the source of your misunderstanding. . .the difference in sanctification (righteousness) between the
righteousness of justification (positional--right standing with God's justice--not guilty, sanctified) and
righteousness of sanctification (progressive--a process of growth in sancification/holiness),
both taught by Paul, which you just whizzed right on by as what. . .chopped liver?
In addition to being declared sanctified/holy through faith in Christ's atoning death on the cross (i.e., justification),
the NT likewise teaches being made sanctified/holy by the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers (i.e., process of sanctification), through obedience in the Holy Spirit.
That is how those Pauline Scriptures presented in post #977 fit into your Pauline teaching. . .
if you have the ability to receive it.

In post 977, you listed verses that ive responded to before.
THe verses you listed, fall under this context..."present your body a living sacrifice".
So, all the "be holy" verse you posted, fall under the "present your body a living sacrifice". or "die daily" or "take up your cross".

So, What is the question?
Are you saying that you are to do that to be saved?
Or are you posting all the DISCIPLESHIP verses, because you want to draw a distinction between God's salvation as Christ on the Cross, and your discipleship, as all these you listed.?

Notice, that all this is what you do because you are born again.
All this discipleship, found in these verses you listed, is only our discipleship.
None of it can save you, and not doing it, wont cause you to lose your salvaiton.
See, what can't save you to begin with, can't cause you to lose your salvation.

So, here are all your discipleship verses, and they are all important, but notice that all these are the "to do list", yet, the born again are already as Righteous as God, being made so by the blood of Jesus.

Here are your verses.

""""""". . .be holy in all you do; for it is written: 'Be holy, because I am holy--Lev 11:44-45.' "
(1 Peter 1:15-16)

". . .called to be holy" (1 Corinthians 1:2)
". . .slaves to sin which leads to death. . .slaves to obedience which leads to righteousness." (Romans 6:16)"Just as you used to offer parts of your body in slavery to impurity, so now
offer your body in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness." (Romans 6:19)
Now that you have. . .become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness. (Romans 6:22)
". . .let us purify ourselves from everthing that contaminates body and spirit,
perfecting (completing) holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)
"Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)"
(Ephesians 5:9)". . .pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness." (1 Timothy 6:11)". . .pursue righteusness, faith, love and peace. . ." (2 Timothy 2:22)
". . .all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for. . .training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)
"God disciplines us for our good that we may share in his holiness. . . discipline produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." (Hebrews 12:10-11)
"die to sin and live for righteousness" (1 Peter 2:24)
"everyone who does what is right has been born of him." (1 John 2:29)
"he who does what is right is righteous. . .he does what is sinful is of the devil," (1 John 3:7)

"Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!" (Romans 6:1)

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desire." (Romans 6:12)

"Do not offer the parts of your body to sin. . .Offer them to God as instruments of righteousness."

 

[Sidon]

And you are only the second I've met who see there are two gospels at all. Someone called down anathema on me, because that person didn't read the next chapter of Paul. It's not hard language is it. But they want to treat the whole NT like it's one big salad bar where they can pick and choose what suits their human mind.

Why do I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of God? Because of all this-->

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me... If ye love Me, keep My commandments... For My yoke [is] easy, and My burden is light... These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name... Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

The word "dispensation", scares a lot of believers.

But this word, regarding the Holy Bible, only means that God changes things over the completed History of the bible, and we can SEE the changes.

For example, the NEW TESTAMENT, is not the OLD TESTAMENT....and that is a CHANGE.
So, these occurring changes are a season or a dispensation.
Someone decided to title these changes, "dispensations", and someone else decided they didn't like it.
However, that does not stop the Holy Bible from being a book of progressive revelation, that just keeps doing that, right till the end.

 

[Sidon]

Gifts can be unopened, or opened, perhaps used, and then thrown away.

You are equating the BLood of God with a Christmas Gift you dont want.
So really.
What do you think you are doing here?
Wake up.

 

[Sidon]

Of course not-God is eternally, infinitely kind. And yet, He has criteria-not whim- for why we may or may not experience that kindness-and why we may not continue in it.

The born again continue to exist in God's Spirit, because we are Born again into the Holy Spirit of God, by God's Holy Spirit.
You can't stop being born, and you can't stop being born again.
Salvation will last for exactly as long as God lives, as Salvation is to become "ONE with God and Christ".
You can't lose salvation, as you didnt cause it.

 

[Sidon]

Matthew 23:10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.NKJV

I have some great news for you..
Its this.
Paul speaking..

See, what you do, is you learn what Paul teaches, as he wrote most of the NT.
Notice i keep saying this?

""
Ephesians 4:11-12

11 And God gave to the body , apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and TEACHERS;

And why, LIgurian??

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


So, that is why i am here.
Im one of those.

 

[Sidon]

Nonsense.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me..

You said that there is more than one "gospel", in the time of the Gentiles"< and then you posted the only one.

Jesus said that He is THE WAY.
So, if you can find another one, ...... you've not found the right one.
If you can find another "way", then you have not found THE Way.

 

[Sidon]

The problem is you are saying that only the "Pauline Theology" you teach leads to someone being born again and saved.

Not at all.

Its not Paul who is the message, its his Message that is the Gospel.
He's the greatest apostle and the greatest Christian who ever lived, but he didnt invent the Cross and the Blood of Jesus, He only defined it as Chruch Doctrine : "Justification by Faith".

ABRAHAM, long before Paul, was Justified by Faith, but it's Paul who was given the revelation of "Justification by Faith", that is the Gospel.
"faith comes by HEARING".. the "preaching of the Cross".
That's the Gospel, and how it works., and that is Paul's epistles.

Let me show you something about Peter.
In Acts 2, he is preaching during Pentecost , but he does not yet understand the Grace of God.
If you read Acts 10, which is about 10 yrs after Acts 2.... notice that God has to give Him a VISION, so that Peter can understand that GENTILES can be saved.
He still does not know this, a decade after the Cross is raised.

So, you go to PAUL for revelation and church doctrine.

 

[fhansen]

A question if I may. I agree that it's impossible for us to fulfil the law perfectly. And Jesus even seemed to strengthen the law with statements like this:

You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart Matthew 5:27-28.

It's clearly impossible for to go through an entire life and not have lustful thoughts at times even if you are a Chief Eunuch. So the law and precepts like these set a standard that we can't achieve however hard we try.

But is this possible even if we walk in the Spirit? I can see that we would be transformed into a more Christ-like image but even so we remain sinners and still fall short. So it's not clear to me why the law is there at all. It seems that its only function is to tell us that we're always going to fail even if we live in the Spirit.

I'd like to follow up later but the law still serves as a reminder that we're not living by the Spirit, when we fail. Again, it's a process, a journey, of drawing nearer and nearer to God, and becoming more and more like Him. We begin the journey here, as we enter relationship with Him via faith.

 

[ozso]

Not at all.

Its not Paul who is the message, its his Message that is the Gospel.
He's the greatest apostle and the greatest Christian who ever lived, but he didnt invent the Cross and the Blood of Jesus, He only defined it as Chruch Doctrine : "Justification by Faith".

ABRAHAM, long before Paul, was Justified by Faith, but it's Paul who was given the revelation of "Justification by Faith", that is the Gospel.
"faith comes by HEARING".. the "preaching of the Cross".
That's the Gospel, and how it works., and that is Paul's epistles.

Let me show you something about Peter.
In Acts 2, he is preaching during Pentecost , but he does not yet understand the Grace of God.
If you read Acts 10, which is about 10 yrs after Acts 2.... notice that God has to give Him a VISION, so that Peter can understand that GENTILES can be saved.
He still does not know this, a decade after the Cross is raised.

So, you go to PAUL for revelation and church doctrine.

Obviously not everyone interprets Paul the way you do, which is why this thread has over 1000 posts and is 54 pages long.

However I think you know what I mean. It's always been a sticking point for me regarding what you're teaching. It bothered me when I first heard it from Hank Lindstrom. That unless one has a very exact understanding of how salvation works, they're not really saved.

 

[Sidon]

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