How to walk in the Spirit.

[Sidon]

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[Sidon]

God doesn't need us to do anything-

You are beginning to understand that the GIFT of salvation requires nothing from you except your faith.

God does not save you, so that you can then run around later on Forums, trying to prove you deserved it.

God didnt shed His blood because we are worthy.

 

[Sidon]

II insist that man can resist that grace, or reject it later on.

What you do in you mind, or what you do as a behavior later, after you are redeemed by God's blood, can't undo being born again.

See, its foolish PRIDE, and infinite self righteousness to believe and state that you have more power of yourself to lose your salvation, then God has the power of the Blood Atonement to prove you can't.

where your sin is found....by mouth, mind, or deed, God's Grace is greater to cover it, and redeem it with Christs Blood.

Romans 5

The Blood Atonement resolves future sin, and not just past.
When you can understand WHY, then your mind is renewed and you are walking in the Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

You are beginning to understand that the GIFT of salvation requires nothing from you except your faith.

God does not save you, so that you can then run around later on Forums, trying to prove you deserved it.

God didnt shed His blood because we are worthy.

My point was that God doesn't need us to save us. He just wants our consent anyway for His purposes and according to His wisdom. Our only job is to not say no to the gift, and to continue persevering in that vein throughout our lives.

 

[fhansen]

What you do in you mind, or what you do as a behavior later, after you are redeemed by God's blood, can't undo being born again.

See, its foolish PRIDE, and infinite self righteousness to believe and state that you have more power of yourself to lose your salvation, then God has the power of the Blood Atonement to prove you can't.

where your sin is found....by mouth, mind, or deed, God's Grace is greater to cover it, and redeem it with Christs Blood.

Romans 5

The Blood Atonement resolves future sin, and not just past.
When you can understand WHY, then your mind is renewed and you are walking in the Spirit.

It's only humility to think that we must, only with the help of God, behave ourselves. Of course we can lose our salvation! He's not even saving everyone to begin with!

 

[Sidon]

My point was that God doesn't need us to save us.

Of course God needs to save us.
His LOVE for us, is so Great......= this is the NEED.
Its the need of a parent, of a Creator, to SAVE what HE/LOVEs.
There is no greater "need", because there is no greater LOVE.

If God doesn't, then none of us go to Heaven, fhansen.
So, He HAS TO.
Got it?
See it yet?
He HAD to come and DIE, or we can't BE with Him.
Do you understand this, as this is God's LOVE needing to die on The Cross.
See, if God doesn't save us, then we all burn in the lake of fire.
So, to stop THAT, He HAS to SAVE us..

See God's need?
This is "God is Love".

 

[Sidon]

. Of course we can lose our salvation! He's not even saving everyone to begin with!

You can lose your salvation is God's Blood can't keep you saved.
You can lose your salvation, if you have the power to save yourself.
You can lose your salvation, if you can stop being born again.

Think.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes he does.
If you look at Galatians, you read where Paul is showing that they have stopped abiding, while still being born again.
He says of them, and to all LEGALISTS, "someone has bewitched you, and you now do not follow the TRUTH."""
"you are FALLEN FROM GRACE"
"you are IN THE FLESH">

All who teach that Law is now the dominion regarding the born again, are "fallen from Grace", and "in the flesh".
Paul says they are : Galatians 1:8

He said that to those who believed the Judiasers.

 

[Ligurian]

Again, you are trying to combine your self effort with God's Grace, as SALVATION.
That's a fail.

See, God's Grace is what God did, and not what you do later.

The GIFT of salvation, is not by works "lest any person will boast".

So, if you can ever understand that Salvation is all of God and none of you, then you have actually begun to comprehend the Blood of Jesus.
But not until.

Revelation says Jesus is judging your "works".

"I know thy works," in 2:2, 2:9, 2:13, 2:19, 3:1, 3:8, and 3:15.KJV
ergon, toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act:--deed, doing, labour, work.

And it's not just any old "works" that Jesus is talking about.

Matthew.7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work without law.KJV
anomia from anomos 459 = illegality, i.e. violation of law or (genitive case) wickedness:--iniquity, X transgress(-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.
459 anomos = a (as a negative particle) and nomos 3551
3551 nomos = law.

Rev.3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.KJV

word = logos = ...doctrine... preaching... say(-ing),... tidings,... word, work.
name = onoma = name (literally or figuratively) (authority, character)...

If people look up the word that might have been used, they may see more things. (yeah I know, I've been slapped around by Kabbalah-guys saying I don't see the deeper meanings, but Jesus is speaking to little children.)

============

About the blood of Jesus

Gentiles were never under the temple law, no matter what you want to think. Temple law seems to have been a test to see if they loved God with their whole heart and soul... a test which Solomon immediately failed.
(I've already posted this somewhere else, so I'm just giving a rough synopsis.)

God said He'd allow them an altar of earth, then says if you want to make an altar of stone don't cut it or you'll defile the stone. So Solomon goes from the altar of earth where the tent was holding the ark, apparently starts taxing people to death, and taking money for the wisdom he'd asked God to give him... and then hires heathens to cut the stones. Can kinda see the first loop-hole-lawyer, right here. God had said don't make steps so people don't see underneath your robes, so they make linen breeches to climb the steps in (wink wink). By the time Esaias 66 rolls around, God has had it with these people who choose their own ways, and says these temple things are an abomination and He's sick of bearing them. Jeremiah has the same story to tell and so does Micah. Even David gets into the act by saying he knows God delights not in sacrifice... which we all should have seen if we went looking for the hyssop prophecy finished on the cross.

============
Chastened or Killed?

Esaias.53:5 But He was wounded on account of our sins, and was bruised because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and by His bruises we were healed.LXX

Why doesn't Isaiah say that Jesus had to be murdered? Yes, Jesus gave up His life/blood to prepare the way of Resurrection to defeat Death which was brought to the garden by the serpent. Yes, Jesus gave His flesh/word to cleanse those who love Him (and the Holy Spirit to those same people after He left). But Jesus says the reason He was killed was for His inheritance... the inheritance of all nations (Matthew 21:38... Psalms 82) and the inheritance of God's mountains:

Esaias 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and [one] saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing [is] in it: so will I do for My servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. 9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of My mountains: and Mine elect shall inherit it, and My servants shall dwell there. 10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for My people that have sought Me.LXX

 

[Ligurian]

He said that to those who believed the Judiasers.

Jesus came back from Heaven with all power, and He told the 11 from Galilee to disciple all nations by teaching them to observe what Jesus had taught to them, so I think the Kingdom Gospel is what Galatians 1:6-9 is talking about.

 

[Ligurian]

Yes these verses support my position.

Been there, know that.
Jesus' word is the yardstick against which all others are measured.

 

[fhansen]

You can lose your salvation is God's Blood can't keep you saved.
You can lose your salvation, if you have the power to save yourself.
You can lose your salvation, if you can stop being born again.

Think.

You can lose your salvation if you've tasted of the heavenly gift and rejected it later.
You can lose your salvation of you've come to the knowledge of Christ and then become entangled by the corruption of the world again.
You can lose your salvation as a branch grafted in and then cut back off.
You can lose your salvation if you don't put to death the deeds of the flesh.
You can lose your salvation without holiness.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Read...and think...for yourself.

 

[fhansen]

Of course God needs to save us.
His LOVE for us, is so Great......= this is the NEED.
Its the need of a parent, of a Creator, to SAVE what HE/LOVEs.
There is no greater "need", because there is no greater LOVE.

If God doesn't, then none of us go to Heaven, fhansen.
So, He HAS TO.
Got it?
See it yet?
He HAD to come and DIE, or we can't BE with Him.
Do you understand this, as this is God's LOVE needing to die on The Cross.
See, if God doesn't save us, then we all burn in the lake of fire.
So, to stop THAT, He HAS to SAVE us..

See God's need?
This is "God is Love".

Perhaps if you'd read my posts more carefully you'd understand the gospel a little better by now. As it is you misread the one you quoted one anyway.

 

[Ligurian]

To be born again, is to have God's Salvation.

The born again have been BIRTHED into the Spirit of God, by the Holy Spirit.
This is where the born again exist.

This is why we are "ONE with God, and Christ".

Its this verse. John 17:21.""""" That they all may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us""

You've ripped this prayer out of context and applied it to those who have not passed the criteria of the verses themselves.

John 17 is the prayer from Jesus for these men... \/ ...only these men...

John.17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest Me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given Me; for they are Thine.

and the believers of the testimony of these men.

17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, [art] in Me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.

Which men?you may ask These men \/ with this message.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world.

power = exousia:--authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.

 

[ozso]

Until you understand that we cannot be saved without God and yet He doesn’t violate our wills to save us you won’t understand well either the gospel or the focus of Scripture from beginning to end. Faith is a gift, and not one that's forced upon us-whether to accept it, or to keep it.

I don't recall him saying anything about the doctrine of predestination.

 

[fhansen]

I don't recall him saying anything about the doctrine of predestination.

No, this involves OSAS beginning with the concept that man cannot possibly be saved apart from God, which I also insist on, while maintaining that man's will is involved from beginning to end, even after being justified/born again. Which means that man is not OSAS. We can stray. As the bible makes clear.

 

[ozso]

No, this involves OSAS beginning with the concept that man cannot possibly be saved apart from God, which I also insist on, while maintaining that man's will is involved from beginning to end, even after being justified/born again. Which means that man is not OSAS. We can stray. As the bible makes clear.

The waters get a bit muddy regarding this because it seems to variate from loss of salvation through outright rejection by way of apostacy to simply straying away. Like we have to keep working hard to keep our justification, because if we accidently stray away some, we'll lose it. The way one person on CF teaches it, it's like we have one foot in hell and the other foot is on a banana peel. Another describes it as being like walking a tightrope over the lake of fire.

 

[fhansen]

The waters get a bit muddy regarding this because it seems to variate from loss of salvation through outright rejection by way of apostacy to simply straying away. Like we have to keep working hard to keep our justification, because if we accidently stray away, we'll lose it. The way one person on CF teaches it, it's like we have one foot in hell and the other foot is on a banana peel. Another describes it as being like walking a tightrope over the lake of fire.

There are just too many verses warning, admonishing, encouraging, etc, with eternal life at stake. And Scripture also lists sins that will alienate us from God all over again, and the church, for its part, has distinguished between the kind of acts that demonstrate a grossly depraved heart that crucifies Christ and love vs lighter acts that are still sinful-outside the will of God- yet don't cause harm to neighbor in such a way or to such a degree that love is completely mocked and trampled on by the act.

To sum up, obedience isn't guaranteed for a believer, nor is obedience overlooked or disregarded for a believer. We're empowered to overcome. Our sins are forgiven and we're expected to 'go, and sin no more'. We can do it, with His help, and only with His help. That's what it means to 'remain in Him, apart from whom we can do nothing' -John 15. Would we think that the uglier varieties of sin, especially, should be excused, as long as we believe that we're not sinners in God's eyes, as if faith would somehow place a rift or distinction between the need to be righteous and actually being personally righteous?

 

[BNR32FAN]

You can lose your salvation if you've tasted of the heavenly gift and rejected it later.
You can lose your salvation of you've come to the knowledge of Christ and then become entangled by the corruption of the world again.
You can lose your salvation as a branch grafted in and then cut back off.
You can lose your salvation if you don't put to death the deeds of the flesh.
You can lose your salvation without holiness.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Read...and think...for yourself.

Its really amazing how so many people reject what the church taught from the very beginning and believe a theology that didn’t exist until the 16th century and has been rejected by every single church established by the apostles.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You've ripped this prayer out of context and applied it to those who have not passed the criteria of the verses themselves.

John 17 is the prayer from Jesus for these men... \/ ...only these men...

John.17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest Me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given Me; for they are Thine.

and the believers of the testimony of these men.

17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, [art] in Me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.

Which men?you may ask These men \/ with this message.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world.

power = exousia:--authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.

Yep happens so often. People read a verse about a specific group of people and think it applies to everyone throughout all time. One prime example is 1 John 2:19.