How to walk in the Spirit.

[fhansen]

Love you feel or love you perform, is not your holiness.
Your Holiness, is to be made righteous.
Righteousness, is not LOVE< fhansen
Righteousness is to be without SIN.

Adam was RIGHETOUS, before he SINNED.
The 2nd Adam, came to restore this sinlessness to "all who believe".
There is your righteousness. It's to be Made Righteous by the BLooD of God.

You don’t understand. To be righteous is to be righteous, to possess the righteousness that would actually prevent one from sinning. This only comes from God on the basis of faith. It has nothing to do with how one looks in the eyes of God, but about how one is. Adam was sinless simply and only because he hadn’t yet sinned. Had he possessed real righteousness, had he loved God and neighbor wholly and perfectly, he never would sinned; obedience would’ve flowed naturally. That’s what it means to say that love fulfills the law; it’s just that practical and real. Yes, love is man’s righteous, or justice, which is why the greatest commandments happen to be what they are.

Faith is absolutely critical because it’s the reversal of what Adam did, which was to literally disbelieve God. Faith makes God our God again. When the time was ripe Jesus came to reveal the true God, so by knowing Him we might believe, and in believing we might hope, and, ultimately and most importantly, come to love Him.

 

[Sidon]

This is sooo anti-gospel of Jesus Christ.

The blood of Jesus IS the the Gospel.
"the preaching of the Cross" is the Gospel.
You have a hard time understanding that God gives this as a GIFT, and that is why you keeping ranting your gospel of ....The Cross + Self effort.
Your gospel does not accept that God only accepts you based on His own Blood.
You need to think about that, and change your belief system.

 

[Sidon]

Actually he's more interested in the novel understanding he came up with (and the understanding of those he's been influenced by) regarding what Paul wrote. And would be better off listening to Augustine instead IMO, who's opinion on this matter neither of you apparently know anyway, rather than to those other notions.

I'll let you worship "church fathers" and keep posting their quotes and links to all this stuff, and i'll just keep on reading and believing and sharing Paul's doctrine, as found in the NT.
np.

 

[fhansen]

Titus 3:5-7
Read it.

We are not righteous based on works, or "fruit".
Fruit is the bi-product, its the end result, of being born again.

God makes us righteous with the Blood of Jesus, and then because we are now become "the righteousness of God in Christ'....WE THEN DO those good works.
That's the discipleship that follows being born again.

Titus 3:5-7:
“...he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.”

Read verse 7, and just consider that that justice, that gives us the hope of eternal life, is real, real justice or righteousness now as opposed to man’s unrighteousness, and not a merely declared righteousness. And then compare:

“...just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:21

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:22-23

“And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

We’re freely and gratuitously made righteous: justified. Now we work out our salvation, with His grace, with Him.

 

[fhansen]

I'll let you worship "church fathers" and keep posting their quotes and links to all this stuff, and i'll just keep on reading and believing and sharing Paul's doctrine, as found in the NT.
np.

Ive quoted way more Scripture than any other source. I’ll certainly remember not to quote yourself in teaching the gospel, however. At least those I quote actually understand and agree with Paul.

 

[Sidon]

You don’t understand. To be righteous is to be righteous, to possess the righteousness that would actually prevent one from sinning.

Listen carefully
The reason you continue to sin and confess and do penance is because, why?

So, according to your own personal theology that you just wrote, if you had righteousness you would not be sinning. Yet you do, and you confess it.
Remember?

fhansen......A good idea, is for you to begin to actually think about what you are posting, before you post.
Start anytime you like.

 

[Sidon]

Titus 3:5-7:

Read verse 7, and just consider that that justice, that gives us the hope of eternal life, is real, real justice or righteousness now as opposed to man’s unrighteousness, and not a merely declared righteousness.
We’re freely and gratuitously made righteous: justified. Now we work out our salvation, with His grace, with Him.

Its God who declares : that by His own Blood, He makes us righteous by "faith is counted as righteousness".
Ive no argument with that..
Its you that has the argument with God's Gift of Righteousness.

 

[Sidon]

At least those I quote actually understand and agree with Paul.

If you agreed with Paul, then you'd agree with me.
See, i dont argue against the fact that God's Blood is the only reason Salvation exists, and my works have nothing to do with it.

You do not share that point of view.
But, at least now, you are not endlessly talking about the LAW.
Good for you.

 

[fhansen]

Listen carefully
The reason you continue to sin and confess and do penance is because, why?

So, according to your own personal theology that you just wrote, if you had righteousness you would not be sinning. Yet you do, and you confess it.
Remember?

fhansen......A good idea, is for you to begin to actually think about what you are posting, before you post.
Start anytime you like.

If you go back and actually read my posts you’ll see that I already have. We work out our salvation. Our holiness is incomplete here, not fully realized until we love God wholly, and our neighbor as ourselves. Then sin would be completely precluded, and this is probably not fully realizable until we meet Him “face to face”, in the next life.

Meanwhile we’re on a journey, to perfection as the church teaches, beginning with justice or righteousness given to us in nascent form which is expected to be accepted, embraced, exercised, nurtured, expressed, and grown, rather than to bury our talents. We just need to get on board, and remain on board, moving ever nearer towards that righteousness, to that love, more than we backslide away from it at the end of the day. Again, God is completely trustworthy and true while we’re yet the wildcard in it all. We must remain in Him.

 

[fhansen]

If you agreed with Paul, then you'd agree with me.
See, i dont argue against the fact that God's Blood is the only reason Salvation exists, and my works have nothing to do with it.

You do not share that point of view.
But, at least now, you are not endlessly talking about the LAW.
Good for you.

I’ll talk about the Law the next time you misunderstand the role of grace, which is meant to bring fulfillment of the Law in us, regardless of whether or not we even hear the Law that convicts man of sin.

 

[fhansen]

Its God who declares : that by His own Blood, He makes us righteous by "faith is counted as righteousness".
Ive no argument with that..
Its you that has the argument with God's Gift of Righteousness.

Faith counts us righteous because we become righteous, finally, by turning to God first of all, He becoming our God again. That partnership is the very essence of man’s righteousness. Everything right begins from that point for man.

“I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.” Jer 31:34

 

[Sidon]

If you go back and actually read my posts you’ll see that I already have. We work out our salvation. Our holiness is incomplete here,.

Can a born again Christian be more Righteous, then God's Righteousness that is become them as "the gift of Righteousness"??
So, if we are "made righteous" INSTANTLY, ...then that its not just the beginning....that is the completion.
That is our "new creation" in Christ.

Then, we begin our journey as "the righteousness of God in Christ".

See, the born again are already here......>"As Jesus IS, so are the born again IN This world".

That happened the instant a person is born again.

Discipleship has now begun as personal lifestyle.
This is our walk of faith, our daily "present your body a living sacrifice".

Our eternal Righteousness however, is CHRIST completed, but OUT Discipleship isn't. It just began, and it continues until the born again get their new body.

 

[Sidon]

I’ll talk about the Law the next time you misunderstand the role of grace, which is meant to bring fulfillment of the Law in us, regardless of whether or not we even hear the Law that convicts man of sin.

Yes, ive read that you believe that a born again person is saved so that they can then go back under the Law and fall from Grace.
We had this discussion in many posts, already.
No need to repeat your legalsim.
We understood it the first 100 posts, ok?

Listen, the reason we are born again, is not to go back into the Old Testament under the Old Covenant, as you keep teaching as your endless legalism rant.

 

[Sidon]

until we love God wholly, and our neighbor as ourselves. Then sin would be completely precluded, and this is probably not fully realizable until we meet Him “face to face”, in the next life.

Sin isn't "precluded" by you loving your neighbor.
Sin is to be delivered from, first by becoming "the righteousness of God", and then, its power is eliminated by walking in the spirit, with a renewed mind.
This is to understand what "under Grace" means, and to exist there in your MIND of Faith.

 

[Sidon]

Faith counts us righteous because we become righteous,

No.

It's God who counts us or esteems us AS Righteous, based on His Own Blood causing it and maintaining it.
Faith, does not "count" anything.
Its God who redeems, not faith.

Faith is not the Savior.
God is the Savior.
God accepts faith TO SAVE YOU.

Legalist will teach that holding unto faith is what saves you.
God has another viewpoint, that is the Truth, and that is, that He saves you, because you believed. And He recognized this belief and justified you with the Blood of Jesus, because He required your faith to do it.
So, God does what He said He would do, if you do what He requires, as God is bound by His own word.

 

[fhansen]

Yes, ive read that you believe that a born again person is saved so that then can then go back under the Law.
We had this discussion in many posts, already.
No need to repeat your legalsim.
We understood it the first 100 posts, ok?

So, the reason we are born again, is not to go back into the Old Testament under the Old Covenant, as you keep teaching as your endless legalism rant.

No, the law always stands as a standard by which we're judged, summarized best by the greatest commandments, it simply does not possess any power to justify us, only to convict us of the sin that only grace can overcome. The Old Covenant is about being under the law, to hear the law and try to fulfill it on my own. The New Covenant is about being under grace, which means to fulfill the law in communion with God, the only way it can be truly fulfilled-and without our even needing to hear the law, let alone be under it.
“But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it.” Rom 3:21

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

 

[Sidon]

No, the law always stands as a standard by which we're judged, s

If you are being judged by the law, then you are not born again.
See, "Christ has redeemed us (the born again) from the CURSE OF THE LAW".

So, you need to understand that when you are trying to teach that the Law is where are to RETURN (old covenant) , after Christ has redeemed us from this situation by NEW Covenant, then you are actually teaching against the Cross, and denying the Grace of God.
Don't do that.

See, God does not take away the curse of the Law, to then put you back under it, as you are teaching, over and over and over.

fhansen, You need to think about what you believe, and bring it into agreement with God's Grace.

 

[fhansen]

No.

It's God who counts us or esteems us AS Righteous, based on His Own Blood causing it and maintaining it.
Faith, does not "count" anything.
Its God who redeems, not faith.

Ok, I'll restate my post with the corrected emphasis:

God counts us righteous due to faith because we become righteous, finally, by turning to God first of all, He becoming our God again. That partnership is the very essence of man’s righteousness. Everything right begins from that point for man.

“I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.” Jer 31:34

 

[fhansen]

So, you need to understand that when you are trying to teach that the Law is where are to RETURN

You're not bothering to fully listen to God in His word. As I said, one doesn't even need to hear the law in order for grace to fulfill it, much less be "under the law". Read, scripture, with your mind even more open to truth.

 

[fhansen]

Sin isn't "precluded" by you loving your neighbor.

Of course it is.
"The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom 13:9-10

"...sin is lawlessness." 1:John 3:4