How to walk in the Spirit.

[Sidon]

The blood of the Lamb keeps one saved as long as they do not fall away.

There is no such thing as Christ leaving you, once He is inside the born again.
There is no such thing as God no longer living in "the temple of the Holy Spirit", after He is INSIDE a person's SPIRIT who is born again as "One With God and Christ".

Check your NT.
Notice there is no verse that even suggests that once God, Christ , and the Holy Spirit are in you, they will leave you because you misbehave, or miss a Sunday, or tell a lie.

Salvation is not so fragile as a person's behavior, as you seem to believe.
Its actually as Eternal as the BLood of God that was shed to cause it.

You can't "fall away" from being born again.

 

[Sidon]

You fail to fully understand justification. If the blood of Jesus doesn’t make me good, then I’m not justified.

You are not good, as compared to God.
Your behavior will never equal the perfection of Christ.
So, rethink your idea that any of your goodness, on your best day, can come close to God's Holiness.

See, this is the reason that God had to give you HIS Righteousness.

 

[ozso]

Well, God didn’t create anyone to sin. And the real problem or injustice with fallen man is his separation from his creator. And the reason Jesus came was to reconcile us with our creator, with whom all things are possible. So...aren’t we limiting God by asking how can I be “good enough”? Maybe it’s because He wants us good enough? Or does He want us bad? Sometimes I think some Christians almost pride themselves in being -and admitting to being- bad. ”Look at me God, what an awful sinner I am”. “Look at me God, what an awful sinner I am.” “Look at me God, what an awful (and humble) sinner I am.”

Until God might finally say, “Ok, enough! That was good, now let’s move on from there please! I’m trying to get you better than that. Contrition with repentance is step one. And, incidentally, while I’d prefer perfection here, good enough is way better to Me than you sitting on your rears and staying where you were, like that wicked and lazy servant burying his talents and all. I want something out of you after all we’ve done for you. And I’ll help you get there BTW.” That’s awfully good news.

“This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word is not in us.” 1 John 1:5-10

“But you know that He appeared so that He might take away our sins. And in Him is no sin.” 1 John 3:5

So God, being infinitely merciful, can certainly overlook less grievous sins for now, and while even a white lie is a gross anomaly in His creation, it’s certainly a far cut better than the torture and murder of a child. So, I’ll ask, if sin is now sort of “ok”, no longer a concern with God, is there then no degree or amount of sin that’s not too much? Certainly there’ll be no sinners in heaven. So something changes somewhere along the line.

And I’m only saying that the change, towards righteousness, must begin here. To Virginia I’d say, “Yes Virginia, sorry, but we expect you to get on board here. You’re still obligated to actually be righteous, to love, really, if I may cut to the chase here. So sorry, I know that’s a burden. It’s really not a heavy one though, since I shoulder 99% of the weight. I just really want you to carry a little bit at least, because I want you to be like Me, to want what I want, to love as I do. And to know my happiness. I’ll give you the strength. If you follow Me.”

You seem to be going with a default notion of it being about not wanting to do anything for God and just living for yourself, and that it must mean it's okay to be a child murderer and so on, which is a strawman, because I'm not saying anything of the sort. Maybe you could go back to what I actually said, and address that, instead of setting something up to knock down.

 

[Sidon]

The works of the born again, as long as they're done in faith, meaning in communion with God as we remain in Him, are not filthy rags-they'

The same works a person does after a person is born again, are the same you can do as a Christ rejector.

A Christ rejector can give to the poor, go to Church, not lie, and try to live a good clean life, exactly as a person who is born again.
In both cases, this is just works, and self effort, and God does not accept any of our works to accept us.
He only accepts HIS work, which is The Cross, The Death of Christ, and the resurrection.
He accepts what HE DID, that we get as the "GIFT of Salvation", to accept us.
Never think that God accepts what you do, to keep you, or to save you to begin with, fhansen.

 

[Sidon]

To stick with the kind of wording you used, they are covered by the blood of Christ and so are considered by God to be righteous for that reason.

Yes, we are "made righteous' by the righteous of God, that is caused, created, and kept, by the Blood Atonement.
The Blood of God, shed, is our righteousness, as this is God's gift to the world. John 3:16
God's blood she : is "eternal Redemption"....and once it is applied to you, you are born again, and that will last as for as long as God exists.

 

[fhansen]

You seem to be going with this notion of it being about not wanting to do anything for God and just living for yourself, and that it must mean it's okay to be a child murderer and so on, which is a strawman, because I'm not saying anything of the sort. Maybe you could go back to what I actually said, and address that, instead of setting something up to knock down.

I think you should give more thought to what you’re really saying. Is sin ok, or not? Will it keep us from heaven, or not?

 

[Sidon]

No, you haven't just come out an put your cards on the table clearly so that we can proceed from there. I believe I get what you're hinting at but the question is very simple. Do you still sin?
.

ive answered this already.
Go and read it again.
There is your answer.

 

[Sidon]

Nah. James was already concerned with the same thing that myself and others are concerned with now-the potential divorcing of justification,

People who do not want to understand the Grace of God, will argue that their self effort is what God accepts to keep them.
God has a different viewpoint.
So does Paul.

Salvation is not of you.
Its all of God.

 

[Sidon]

This gets a bit confusing, because if only past sins are forgiven and forgotten, there's still a lifetime ahead..

All sin was resolved by Christ's Blood.

However, this will never stop a religious self righteous person from trying to prove they are worthy to be accepted by God based on their trying to be good, despite the reality that The Cross proves they are not good enough.

Many religious people, deceived, will teach that this is Salvation......

The Cross + Their self effort.

God's shed blood does not agree with their theology.

 

[fhansen]

The same works a person does after a person is born again, are the same you can do as a Christ rejector.

It’s not what you can do in any case. Its what you do -as a Christ acceptor, now. Surely we can fake righteousness; that’s called legalism, an external pretense of righteousness. But that in no way implies that we can’t actually be made righteous.
“Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.” Matt 23:26

And it’s not true anyway that a Christ rejector can do the same as a truly born again person does. A Christ rejector cannot love, at least with the kind of love that God has, and desires to work in us.

 

[Sidon]

I think you should give more thought to what you’re really saying. Is sin ok, or not? Will it keep us from heaven, or not?

All Sin has been resolved, if you are born again, by Jesus on the Cross.
Try to understand that the shed blood of God, who is Jesus, is a "one time sacrifice" for all sin.
See.....Jesus "became sin" for all the born again, and died, and that resolved ALL sin.
So, this is not an issue for a born again person.

fhansen, If you read the NT, you'll eventually read this verse. Romans 4:8.

This NT verse teaches you that God does not charge SIN to the born again, ever again.
Why now?
Because God can't charge JESUS for them, and the born again also.
See, Christ has born and died for all the sin of the Born again, and that is why God can't judge the born again for their SIN in eternity, as He has already JUDGED JESUS for them all, on the Cross, on earth.

Try to understand that the reason that the born again meet God as FATHER after they die, and not as JUDGE, is because CHRIST has resolved their SIN.......all of it......already.

This is "the CROSS".

 

[fhansen]

People who do not want to understand the Grace of God, will argue that their self effort is what God accepts to keep them.
God has a different viewpoint.
So does Paul.

Salvation is not of you.
Its all of God.

People who understand the grace of God and it’s purpose, know that through it God gives us the effort, so that it’s Him and us. Even faith is both a gift of grace, and a human choice to accept and act upon that gift.

 

[Sidon]

. Surely we can fake righteousness; that’s called legalism,

Legalism isn't faking christianity.
Legalism is trying to save yourself and keep yourself saved, instead of trusting Christ to do it.
Its the teaching of this deception....this trying to stay saved by keeping the law and commandments,..and teaching that this is "how you are saved", that is LEGALISM.

Does this sound familiar to you, fhansen?

 

[Sidon]

People who understand the grace of God and it’s purpose,

The purpose of God's Grace, which is the eternal mercy of God, given as John 3:16, isn't about being good, or trying to keep the law and commandments, as self righteousness.
The GRACE of God, which is a GIFT.....is only about being MADE RIGHTEOUS by God's Blood.

 

[fhansen]

All Sin has been resolved, if you are born again, by Jesus on the Cross.
Try to understand that the shed blood of God, who is Jesus, is a "one time sacrifice" for all sin.
See.....Jesus "became sin" for all the born again, and died, and that resolved ALL sin.
So, this is not an issue for a born again person.

fhansen, If you read the NT, you'll eventually read this verse. Romans 4:8.

This NT verse teaches you that God does not charge SIN to the born again, ever again.
Why now?
Because God can't charge JESUS for them, and the born again also.
See, Christ has born and died for all the sin of the Born again, and that is why God can't judge the born again for their SIN in eternity, as He has already JUDGED JESUS for them all, on the Cross, on earth.

Try to understand that the reason that the born again meet God as FATHER after they die, and not as JUDGE, is because CHRIST has resolved their SIN.......all of it......already.

This is "the CROSS".

We’ve already covered all this. You’re choosing to ignore way too many passages in the Bible.

 

[fhansen]

The purpose of God's Grace, which is the eternal mercy of God, given as John 3:16, isn't about being good, or trying to keep the law and commandments, as self righteousness.
The GRACE of God, which is a GIFT.....is only about being MADE RIGHTEOUS by God's Blood.

Yes, MADE RIGHTEOUS. Not with some sort of pretend righteousness, with no real change other than a positional change in status. Christ did way more for you than that.

 

[ozso]

The same works a person does after a person is born again, are the same you can do as a Christ rejector.

A Christ rejector can give to the poor, go to Church, not lie, and try to live a good clean life, exactly as a person who is born again.
In both cases, this is just works, and self effort, and God does not accept any of our works to accept us.
He only accepts HIS work, which is The Cross, The Death of Christ, and the resurrection.
He accepts what HE DID, that we get as the "GIFT of Salvation", to accept us.
Never think that God accepts what you do, to keep you, or to save you to begin with, fhansen.

The funny thing with this is, the idea that someone saying salvation isn't based on works, means the person saying so hasn't ever done any works nor plans to do any works. Who doesn't do works? Who's managed to go though life without helping someone out etc? James didn't give a whole long list of good works. He pointed out that Rahab the harlot helped out the spies. Period. Not that she did this, that, and the other every day of her life. So again, if works is needed for salvation, who has never performed good works? Probably no one. So why would there be an objection to doing what virtually everyone does already? That's not what the objection is about as I see it.

 

[fhansen]

Legalism isn't faking christianity.

Yes, it is. And you should know that by now if you’ve read scripture as much as I’m sure you have. All legalism involves trying to look righteous on the outside, with no change on the inside. Jesus came to heal and change the inside, so the outside will be clean. And that’s how He saves us, as we trust in Him.

“...just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:21

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:22-23

“And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

 

[Sidon]

. Even faith is both a gift of grace, and a human choice to accept and act upon that gift.

And when you "act upon that Gift" God accepts this FAITH ONE TIME, and "faith is counted as Righteousness".= "Justification BY faith".
The proof, the only proof, that He did, is by being being born again.
Being born again, is the only real proof a person is a Christian, and that is because its the only situation that a person can't cause, .. as only God can give the "new birth".

 

[Sidon]

We’ve already covered all this. You’re choosing to ignore way too many passages in the Bible.

No, im only choosing to deny your religious idea that we are saved to then go back under the law to try to keep ourselves saved, by law and commandment keeping.
See, that theology, is Grace denying, as it substitutes SELF EFFORT in place of the Blood Atonement.