How to walk in the Spirit.

fhansen · Jun 22, 2021

pescador said:
You wrote, "But we're like prodigals or wild things, in rebellion, filled with pride, not necessarily sure we want to come completely in from the wild, needing to be convinced, which is a primary purpose of the Cross to begin with". That applies only to those who are not Christians.

That's where a major difference here lies. If were honest with ourselves, IMO, that struggle continues in one way or another throughout our lives. When we're finally able to know without a shred of doubt that we love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves, then we will have fully arrived, and sin will be totally overcome.

fhansen · Jun 22, 2021

pescador said:
The subject of the OP is how to walk in the Spirit. The argument of repentance from sin has nothing to do with the subject. One "walks in the Spirit" when one follows the leading of the Holy Spirit who guides them into all truth.

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take from Mine and will disclose it to you." John 16:13-14

And yet Rom 8:13 tells us that if, by the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh, we will live. I think overcoming sin is part of walking in the Spirit. In fact, I know it.

pescador · Jun 22, 2021

fhansen said:
The variations of opinion that people get from the bible are sometimes amazing. No, it doesn't work that way. Are you asserting that you never sin?

The variations of opinion that people get from the bible are sometimes amazing. No, it doesn't work the way you say it does. Christ died for the sins of all people for all time. (John 3:16)

Do I sin? Yes. Are my sins counted against me? No. My life is hidden in Christ.

Colossians 3:2-3, "Set your minds on the things that are above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God."

I know that self-abasement is what some practice, but it is not Scriptural. If Christ is sinless and my life is hidden with Christ in God, then I too am regarded as sinless. The cycle of sin-confession-forgiveness, ad nauseum, is not scriptural.

I am guided by the Holy Spirit. John 16:13a, "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth." And of course the Spirit has come and He guides me, not some priest-man.

pescador · Jun 22, 2021

fhansen said:
And yet Rom 8:13 tells us that if, by the Spirit we put to death the deed of the flesh, we will live. I think overcoming sin is part of walking in the Spirit. In fact, I know it.

Keep reading... Romans 8:14-16, "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery leading again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children."

fhansen · Jun 22, 2021

pescador said:
Keep reading... Romans 8:14-16, "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery leading again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children."

ok? So does that mean God's children can sin? Once we're no longer slaves to sin, we need not fear, of course.

“For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.” Rom 6:6

“Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?” Rom 6:16

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Rom 8:12-13

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Rom 8:1-4

BNR32FAN · Jun 22, 2021

fhansen said:
Not really sure where your objection lies so maybe you could point it out. Meanwhile I'll repeat:
"Remaining in Christ is born out by the way we live our lives, by the fruit that results in other words. Not by just talk or personal opinion or the way we might prefer to see ourselves."

What is inside of us is reflected by the way we live, by the way we love as you included.
"Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Matt 23

Well I think there could be some cases where a person has become changed inside where the outward works haven’t appeared yet. Take for example Paul’s conversion. Paul was changed inwardly but his outward appearance to the apostles was unnoticed at first. They still feared him because they couldn’t see the change that took place within.

pescador · Jun 22, 2021

Romans 8:1-5, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

For those who live according to the flesh have their outlook shaped by the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit have their outlook shaped by the things of the Spirit."

pescador · Jun 22, 2021

fhansen said:
ok? So does that mean God's children can sin? Once we're no longer slaves to sin, we need not fear, of course.

“For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.” Rom 6:6

“Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?” Rom 6:16

Great post! We finally agree!

pescador · Jun 22, 2021

Sidon said:
The born again are not sinners.
The born again are "new Creations", "in Christ".
Their sin , is what Jesus became, on the Cross.

It amazes me that people are incapable of understanding this basic Biblical truth.

Ligurian · Jun 22, 2021

Sidon said:
Yes, im sure that Paul teaches that "all who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved".
and..
"as many as receive Jesus, to them He gives Eternal life and they shall never perish".
and
Jesus said, 'if you do not believe im the Messiah, you shall die in your sins"...

Im quite sure.
believe it.

Paul teaches one thing that Jesus says will not work Matthew 7:21-23 ... really, that's all you could find? And even then, you don't care at all about context.

Regarding your last two quotations:

1) John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. (one might think this alone would keep people from calling themselves teachers)

2) John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My word, [then] are ye My disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 17:17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth. John 12:50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

Nor do you care that the puzzle must have all the pieces fit to be considered whole... not just an edge-piece, here or there.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me.

I'm convinced that no grace gospel teacher has ever read and understood the above verse... nor has anyone who denies Jesus is God... they see what they expect to see.

Ligurian · Jun 22, 2021

Ligurian said:
If it's all cut and dried, why are the predestinated people even here? *

Paul's stewardship
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called (kaleo (bid)): and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Peter's stewardship
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called (kletos), but few chosen (eklektos).

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called (kletos (invited)), and chosen (eklektos (called out)), and faithful (convinced).

_________________________
* The answer must be genetics?
Maybe the gentiles will get their chance to mess up big time during the millennium.

Sidon said:
The idea that freewill does not exist, is hard to explain when Christ says...>"now my will but your's Father, that i will obey".

wake up.

If you're not supposed to keep crucifying Him again and again, why do you do it? and how does that mean you're saved nevertheless? Whenever you sin, do you blame God?
See, these are the things that made me run to the Kingdom Gospel. Because personal responsibility makes sense, blaming God doesn't.

Ligurian · Jun 22, 2021

Ligurian said:
And you can't even be shown that you can't even know what you're talking about.
Instead, you're trying to apply Pauline terminology to what Jesus said.
And finally pretending to tell me what I've been saying to you the whole month.
And denying it, all at the same time.
And that "foolish" phrase is just begging to send you to hellfire under Kingdom Law.
I understand why a scofflaw like you wouldn't want to be under Kingdom Law.
But why you think you can have Kingdom perks without the pains is beyond me.
"No pain, no gain" is more often true than not, in my experience.

And now you're telling me you've never read Jesus saying, "But I say unto you..."
Pretending Jesus was under the Old Covenant... disregarding Thy Kingdom Come...
Yammering on about Jesus preaching to His own that tried to kill Him 42 months straight.
Forgetting entirely the verses that speak of the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
Never reading Matthew 28:18-20, which stops your WWGG dead in its tracks.
Can't blame you for not knowing any of this, since it's not given to you to know.

Seems to me that you've finally admitted there are two gospels, you just don't want to admit it. Because the Good News of the Kingdom is the New Covenant, like it or not. Stop and think about it. If you know that the Kingdom is for all nations, and know that's what Jesus taught AND to whom He taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven... then you know that the mission fields are for (1) the lost tribes of Israel, and (2) the heathen nations (GG is not WW). And do yourself a favor: learn that Judeans are NOT the whole Hebrew nation.

Sidon said:
All real church doctrine came from Christ, through Paul.
This is Pauline Theology.

What do you do with the verses where Paul says "I think", like 1 Corinthians 7:40... do you say those aren't real church doctrine?

I am noticing that you're skipping the hard questions.

ozso · Jun 22, 2021

Sidon said:
Is Christ rejection a choice?

Of course, and when you do that, you are this....... John 3:36

You are DAMNED while you are breathing, and all you are doing is waiting to go to Hell.

What did Paul say about hell, especially eternal torment?

fhansen · Jun 22, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Well I think there could be some cases where a person has become changed inside where the outward works haven’t appeared yet. Take for example Paul’s conversion. Paul was changed inwardly but his outward appearance to the apostles was unnoticed at first. They still feared him because they couldn’t see the change that took place within.

I see what you're saying. And I'm sure that many times only God will see the good that people do anyway. But either way the good fruit should be present, and outweigh the bad.

fhansen · Jun 22, 2021

pescador said:
Great post! We finally agree!

Good, we agree that we must overcome sin-and that this is generally an ongoing matter for those born again-because we'll continue to sin. The "righteous standard of the law" (Rom 8:4) must be fulfilled in us. But not by being under the law but by the Spirit, under grace.

Ligurian · Jun 22, 2021

Sidon said:
thats how you receive light.

The best way is to study the word and meditate on what you read.

And as you study it, God starts connecting verses for you like dots........Some over here, and some over there.
You are in Titus, and then a verse you had read in the Psalms, suddenly become enlightened and connected. And this just keeps happening..... layer upon layer. Level upon level.....God gives the Light of revelation, beginning with you SEEING Salvation, as God's Blood given for FREE to make you righteous.
That is the GOSPEL.
That is "My Gospel", that Paul teaches.
That is the GRACE Of GOD as the Cross of Christ.
That shed blood of Jesus, IS Salvation. Jesus Himself IS Salvation.
When you see Him as this, you are seeing the Truth...... John 14:6

The bible , the NT is words, but that is meaningless.
You dont get the LIGHT from the verses, unless Christ who is the Light of the World, and the living LIGHT of Life, gives it to you. John 8:12

You notice that i teach and preach the blood of Jesus, when im here, in nearly every post.
My Threads are all about being "in Christ".. Both as being born again, and then as how to live there, as the renewed mind, walking in the Spirit

Understanding that the blood of Jesus makes you righteous and keeps you righteous, and nothing else can, is coming into the revelation of the Grace of God for the first time.
From there you become this verse..>Hebrews 13:9, "heart grounded IN GRACE".

Nothing else is offered by God but the BLood Atonement to get you to heaven., as John 14:6.

You've noticed that all the self savers, all the legalist, attack me and stay on my Threads, regarding teaching their self righteous version of how to go to heaven using commandments, and water, and law, and good deeds.

And then, like magic, one of them will suddenly SEE the Cross.
They will suddenly SEE that God gives the GIFT of Righteousness, and they never saw this before that very second.

That is Christ giving the LIGHT.

Ligurian said:
Doesn't seem like Barnabus was under the Kingdom Law either. Should be interesting how this plays out.

Esaias 66:17 They that sanctify themselves and purify themselves in the gardens, and eat swine’s flesh in the porches, and the abominations, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

Sidon said:
What you said only makes sense to you.

Either you don't know that Barnabus wrote the letter to the Hebrews according to church history, or you don't want to believe any Prophecy which says food law still exists within the circumcision fold. In any case, what you've said makes perfect sense to the people whose fold you're attempting to bring into your tribe... as though the gentiles aren't really a big enough mission field for you.

Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They have corrupted themselves, and become abominable in their devices; there is none that does goodness, there is not even so much as one. 2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the sons of men, to see if there were any that understood, or sought after god. 3 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become good for nothing, there is none that does good, no not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness; their feet are swift to shed blood: destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they have not known: there is no fear of God before their eyes.

This isn't written about the Israelites, as Psalms 14:4-7 tells us... it's written about the heathen... so, shouldn't you be teaching them?

ozso · Jun 22, 2021

fhansen said:
Here's another one, related but fleshed out a bit more completely:
"Then Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are your accusers? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, Lord,” she answered.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.” John 8:10-11

I don't think Jesus made an incomplete declaration. As if oops He forgot to make it conditional. But I can certainly see why John 8:10-11 seems to get repeated far more often than Luke 7:48-50. Heaven forbid there be any indication of unconditional forgiveness.

"Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

And... Nope that's all folks!

ozso · Jun 22, 2021

fhansen said:
A bit long but Mr Gregg had a lot worth saying.

I agree over 4 hrs is really long. It's possibly the longest lecture I've listed to. But I feel its length gave it the quality of no stone had been left unturned. To be honest, I played my video game the last time I listened to it again lol.

I have a feeling you wouldn't like his lecture on the three Christian views of hell though.

Ligurian · Jun 22, 2021

Sidon said:
there is so much more to it then that, bnr32fan.

so much more to it.

You are now trying to explain calculus only because you can count to 3.
that's how much you dont know about this topic.
that is why you should listen to someone who does, who is me.

The history of "greek texts" and all this, is quite fascinating.
You might ask your Pope why he does not use the Greek texts, including the Douay Rheims bible that is the "Catholic" bible, that was not translated from the Greek that made up all other bibles.

When you are at Mass, and the person is reading the LATIN.
Did you never wonder why?

Time to wake up.

Ligurian said:
BTW, it's "than that", not "so much more to it then that". If you're going to call someone out for what you perceive as their lack of math skills, you're going to need verbal skills with which to do so.

And a little humility wouldn't hurt, either.

Ambacum 2:4 If he should draw back, my soul has no pleasure in him: but the just shall live by my faith.5 But the arrogant man and the scorner, the boastful man, shall not finish anything; who has enlarged his desire as the grave, and like death he is never satisfied, and he will gather to himself all the nations, and will receive to himself all the peoples.LXX

Psalms 119:78 Let the proud be ashamed; for they transgressed against me unjustly: but I will meditate in Thy commandments.LXX

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
James 3:13 Who [is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

Moral of the story: yeah, I'm keeping the Kingdom Gospel. Your freedom seems to allow you to be... something to which I don't aspire. I'm always willing to learn from other people's mistakes.

Sidon said:
You are reduced to talking about my grammar skills?
Thats hilarious.
Listen,
I have so many posts to respond to, each day.
Im in a hurry to do this, so that i can keep up.
Understand?
So, if i write "then", vs "than", or use a bit of awkward syntax, then so be it.
im good, and God does not mind.
After all, you are involved with Greek, instead of using a Bible.
Work on that, and i'll try to work on all my "then's".

Why am I not surprised that you're going to work on your lame verbal skills rather than your complete lack of humility. By all means, skip the hard questions for which you apparently can't find the time to answer, or can't find the answers themselves.

You are making my point for me, over and over again... the Kingdom Law does not allow your arrogance... and makes the world into a place where the lion can lie down with the lamb. In your dispensation, the lion would've eaten the ram and ewe before the lamb had ever been born... or maybe you're not a very good example of what Paul would allow, either.

ozso · Jun 22, 2021

Hmm said:
Great video - I love the use of the two chairs to help explain the point. The Orthodox view makes sense. What a shame it's largely been lost in Protestantism.

That's because Protestantism came from the Western Church instead of the Eastern Church. That presentation lead to me exploring the Orthodox Church, which I've become quite attracted to.

How to walk in the Spirit.

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Wise old man

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