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They had no choice.
I should have used sense or come to know or something like that.
But if we then explain things in scientific terms then its not something beyond science. There are things science cannot explain yet people try to explain this with some idea beyond science like the Multiverse or Dark Matter and energy. So just because science can come up with an explanation doesn't mean they are right about everything. Science only takes one view of reality and cannot explain everything.
Then why did Paul say this almost two thousand years ago?
Yeah I should have used another word like experience perhaps. But you can see something physical and see with your minds eye that there is something behind it. Like we see a physical car but also see that there is design (mind) behind it.
Yes but its more about seeing or mabe sensing through intuition that something is more than its physical makeup. Like the laws of physics or nature are not visible except by the effects they have on reality.
We all also somehow know that cars don't grow on trees out in the jungle too. Go figure!
Only if you completely ignore the knowledge I mention above.stevevw said:
Try on: the reality we perceive was also observed to produce regularities which when expressed with rigour, became the laws of physics/nature.stevevw said:
Good post, Steve.
But we can look at a tree or something in nature and get a similar sense, intuition that there is someting behind it, like a mind or some laws of nature driving things which are the invisible qualities.
But isn't that seeing reality through one lens (methological naturalism) and assuming that the physical world is all there is. So we don't have to ignore science but understand its only a particular description of things and there can be other aspects of what we see and experience that are not physical in nature.
So?
I understand what you're saying.
So, would you like to rephrase it coherently, using sense or come to know or something like that?
Exactly, that's the point. If these forces have some influence on the physical world, they are amenable to science. If there is no influence on the physical world, the whole idea is purely speculative, without evidence.
The multiverse, dark matter, and dark energy are not 'beyond science'; the first is a prediction of our best physical theories, the other two are hypotheses to explain very definite observations. IOW, they are the products of science.
For example?
But what would that even mean? What does 'exist' mean in that context? And unless it affects the natural world, we can't know whether it 'exists' or not...
