How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?

[TLK Valentine]

It isnt " wrong". Its just inaccurate

Ive yet to see one of our literalist people accept that the
bible is ever inaccurate.
Their construct of reality is a hard brittle shell.
It seems the tiniest start of a crack will shatter the whole thing.

And yet at the same time, the reality they wish to foist on the rest of us is highly malleable -- they'll be the first to insist that God can make a bowl of any measurements He wants and still make it "round." Just another in a long series of miracles-on-demand.

The laws of physics, after all, are entirely under God's control... God Himself, of course, being under the Bible's control, and the Bible -- surprise! -- being under their control...

... and ain't that just a bigger circle of convenient coincidences than King Josiah's temple renovation crew?

 

[AV1611VET]

And yet at the same time, the reality they wish to foist on the rest of us is highly malleable -- they'll be the first to insist that God can make a bowl of any measurements He wants and still make it "round."

Do you think you yourself can make a round drawing, thirty inches around by ten inches wide?

I think you can.

And if you can, what's all this hullabaloo about the molten sea?

Sounds like someone is throwing Pi into the equation to make the Bible look wrong inaccurate.

 

[Opdrey]

"Found" by a temple renovation crew that was being paid directly out of pocket by a revival-minded King Josiah who just so happened to already agree with everything it said and made a grand public spectacle of repentance just in time to stave off an imminent divine retribution... at least, according to 2 Kings 22...


...sheesh, Tony Soprano covered his tracks better than this.

Yup, that's generally what I had read as well. This sort of context is actually amazingly cool to me. It shows the political machinations of people throughout time. But it also helps make sense of things that otherwise lack real world context. The idea that Moses wrote Deuteronomy inspired by God really removes the interesting bits from it.

 

[Opdrey]

Sounds like someone is throwing Pi into the equation to make the Bible look wrong inaccurate.

Actually no one is really. We're actually being quite generous and accepting that not all things are done to that level of significant digit. That, indeed, rough estimates are allowed!

This is what one would expect from something written by humans. Or do you think God wasted His precious time "inspiring" someone to write this and then didn't think that future generations would pick at it? Sure God Himself knew that in the future humans would become obsessed with Pi, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

JUST using the bible it would be clear that Pi=3.0

Sounds like someone is throwing Pi into the equation to make the Bible look wrong inaccurate.

Actually no one is really.

Wow -- solid aurum.

That, indeed, rough estimates are allowed!

Rough estimate of what? the short axis? the long axis? the circumference? Pi?

Which one?

 

[Hans Blaster]

It isnt " wrong". Its just inaccurate

Ive yet to see one of our literalist people accept that the
bible is ever inaccurate.
Their construct of reality is a hard brittle shell.
It seems the tiniest start of a crack will shatter the whole thing.

To keep with my existing theme on this sub-sub-thread: It is imprecise. Within in the precision given (1 digit), 3 is an accurate representation of pi.

Since the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter was known at the time, the only conclusion we can draw is that the authors of that section chose round numbers that only had one significant digit.

 

[AV1611VET]

To keep with my existing theme on this sub-sub-thread: It is imprecise.

What specifically is imprecise?

Since the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter was known at the time,

What circle?

Chapter and verse please?

 

[Hans Blaster]

What specifically is imprecise?

Using pi=3. is imprecise.

*ALL* terminating digital representations of pi are imprecise. You should use one that matches the precision of you measurements. In this case the numbers have one significant digit, so pi=3. is sufficient.

If the diameter of a circle is 30 (units) and you then say 30/pi = 9.54929658551372 you are inventing precision in the diameter that *DOES NOT EXIST*.

(NB: I wrote "3." in these response to indicate a decimal representation with just one digit of precision. It's like some of you never studied measurement theory. Sheesh.)

[QUOTE="AV1611VET, post: 76571705, member: 152669"What circle?

Chapter and verse please?[/QUOTE]

The circle thingy in whatever chapter you guys are talking about. Bible coordinates mean nothing to me.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Bible, from King James' perspective ...

1 Kings 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

The Bible, from King James Mc-Graw-Hill's perspective ...

1 Kings 7:23 And he made a bowl, ten cubits was its diameter: it was a circle circular a sphere a circle all about, and his height was five cubits: and its circumference was thirty cubits.

 

[AV1611VET]

Using pi=3. is imprecise.

Who's doing that!?

Not I! not the writer of First Kings!

The circle thingy in whatever chapter you guys are talking about.

What circle thingy are you talking about?

This circle thingy?

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Oh ... wait!

QV my last post.

That classroom cliché thingy.

Got it -- sorry.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Do you think you yourself can make a round drawing, thirty inches around by ten inches wide?

I think you can.

Roundish, anyway.

And if you can, what's all this hullabaloo about the molten sea?

Sounds like someone is throwing Pi into the equation to make the Bible look wrong inaccurate.

#closeenoughforbiblicalwork, eh AV?

 

[Hans Blaster]

The Bible, from King James' perspective ...

1 Kings 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

The Bible, from King James Mc-Graw-Hill's perspective ...

1 Kings 7:23 And he made a bowl, ten cubits was its diameter: it was a circle circular a sphere a circle all about, and his height was five cubits: and its circumference was thirty cubits.

Seems a perfectly reasonable use of "circles", 30 around, 10 across. Why won't you stop?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I think a lot of people of faith are actually scared of atheism like it's some disease that is catching.

There's no vaccine...

 

[AV1611VET]

Seems a perfectly reasonable use of "circles", 30 around, 10 across.

Except that's not a circle, which is a round plane figure whose boundary (the circumference) consists of points equidistant from a fixed point (the center).

God pulled a fast one on you guys, didn't He?

Calling it "round," not "circular."

I'm afraid academia can go lick its wounds on this one.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yup, that's generally what I had read as well. This sort of context is actually amazingly cool to me. It shows the political machinations of people throughout time. But it also helps make sense of things that otherwise lack real world context. The idea that Moses wrote Deuteronomy inspired by God really removes the interesting bits from it.

I'm more interested that the author chose to enter that bit of info... it doesn't advance the story; 2 Kings 22:7 serves no purpose but to raise a big ol' red flag...

Maybe it's just the Jersey Boy in me, but I consider it a universal truth that if someone's getting paid under the table, it's for something they shouldn't be doing...

 

[Hans Blaster]

God pulled a fast one on you guys, didn't He?

Huh?

 

[AV1611VET]

Maybe it's just the Jersey Boy in me,

I believe Noah lived in [what is now] New Jersey before the Flood.

Noah's Ark Restaurant & Deli
Teaneck, New Jersey

 

[TLK Valentine]

I believe Noah lived in [what is now] New Jersey before the Flood.

Noah's Ark Restaurant & Deli
Teaneck, New Jersey

Had Noah been born in Jersey, he wouldn't have flipped out when Ham saw him naked.

Valentine 3:16 "And as Ham went to cover his father's nakedness, verily did Noah say unto him, 'What? Hast thou never been to Gunnison?'"

 

[AV1611VET]

Huh?

CIRCLE: a round plane figure whose boundary consists of points equidistant from the center

ROUND:
1. shaped like or approximately like a circle or cylinder
2. shaped like or approximately like a sphere
3. any round shape, as a circle, ring or sphere
4. a circular, ring-shaped, curved, or spherical object

1 Kings 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

Not:

1 Kings 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was circular all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

 

[AV1611VET]

Had Noah been born in Jersey, he wouldn't have flipped out when Ham saw him naked.

Is that classroom cliché now?

Ham saw his father naked?