How to kill Palestinians

[Carey]

Amazing how little people know or choose to know about the true history of the Middle East. There is an (dwindling) indigenous population of Christians, who can trace their family roots back to the time of Pentecost who call themselves Palestinian Christians. Yet you refuse to acknowledge their presence.

Yes their are some decendents of Cannanites ( Palestinians) who converted to Christianity.
But they were allowed to stay in the Israelites land and the Israelites never tried to expel them or convert them to Judaism. They as long as they followed the Israelites laws were allowed to stay just as they are today siince 1948. But they must abide by the Israelites rule. Just as the gentiles like us would have to.

The Romans expelled the true owners of the land the renamed it Palestine and they were not able to get their land back until 1948.

This does not make the Palestinian Christians or muslims the rightful owners to the land because they were able to stay around after Rome and others persecuted and dispersed the true owners of the land until God started bringing them back in 1948.

 

[Micah68]

Yes their are some decendents of Cannanites ( Palestinians) who converted to Christianity.
But they were allowed to stay in the Israelites land and the Israelites never tried to expel them or convert them to Judaism. They as long as they followed the Israelites laws were allowed to stay just as they are today siince 1948. But they must abide by the Israelites rule. Just as the gentiles like us would have to.

The Romans expelled the true owners of the land the renamed it Palestine and they were not able to get their land back until 1948.

This does not make the Palestinian Christians or muslims the rightful owners to the land because they were able to stay around after Rome and others persecuted and dispersed the true owners of the land until God started bringing them back in 1948.

This is so warped, do you honestly think the people living in 'GODS' Holy Land (YES God is the TRUE owner)really care what the land is called?! Honestly people (YES THE MAJORITY) just want to live in peace. Carey you have yet to answer my question of long ago, Where is this exclusive (for Jews only) title/deed spoken of in the NT in particular by Jesus Christ and also by his disciples? Where in the Bible is 'Israel' given carte blanc to do as they wish no matter the cost to human life and dignity? My friend you are blind.

 

[Carey]

This is so warped, do you honestly think the people living in 'GODS' Holy Land (YES God is the TRUE owner)really care what the land is called?! Honestly people (YES THE MAJORITY) just want to live in peace. Carey you have yet to answer my question of long ago, Where is this exclusive (for Jews only) title/deed spoken of in the NT in particular by Jesus Christ and also by his disciples? Where in the Bible is 'Israel' given carte blanc to do as they wish no matter the cost to human life and dignity? My friend you are blind.

( noone says the Jews will go to heaven but they will and do have their land God gave them . The Israelites having their land of Cannan has nothing to do with Salvation any more than the Arabs having their wealth as and other lands promised to Esaus decendents but some decendents that were cut off do not get circucised of the flesh either. The religious ones that practice this are the ones promised the land of Cannan.)

Peace will not come until Christ returns and reigns for a 1000 years. Then after that war will break out again 1 last time.

Here are the answers to your questions.

Genesis 13 :

12 Abram lived in the land of Canaan,

14 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Lift up your eyes from where you are and look north and south, east and west. 15 All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring [a] forever. 16 I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted. 17 Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you."

Genesis 15 : 18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river [d] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates- 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites."

Genesis 17 : 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."

6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."

( notice here this covenant is about the land not heaven or salvation. It is also about being circumcised in the flesh and not the heart )

Genesis 17 : 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant

( isn't it interesting the only 2 nations where circumcision of the flesh is common place is Israel and the USA ?? )

There are no other restrictions on their one day getting the whole land. This is not saying salvation though.

Later God does dispurse them from their land out of his anger with them but he says at some point in the future his anger will cool.( 1948 )


This started in 1948 and is ongoing.

Isaiah 60 : 10 "Foreigners will rebuild your walls,
and their kings will serve you.
Though in anger I struck you,
in favor I will show you compassion.


4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All assemble and come to you;
your sons come from afar,
and your daughters are carried on the arm.
5 Then you will look and be radiant,
your heart will throb and swell with joy;
the wealth on the seas will be brought to you,
to you the riches of the nations will come.
12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish;
it will be utterly ruined.


13 "The glory of Lebanon will come to you,
the pine, the fir and the cypress together,
to adorn the place of my sanctuary;
and I will glorify the place of my feet.

( this is not yet finished )

You will drink the milk of nations
and be nursed at royal breasts.
Then you will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior,
your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.
17 Instead of bronze I will bring you gold,
and silver in place of iron.
Instead of wood I will bring you bronze,
and iron in place of stones.

( this has not yet started )

I will make peace your governor
and righteousness your ruler.

18 No longer will violence be heard in your land,
nor ruin or destruction within your borders,
but you will call your walls Salvation
and your gates Praise.
19 The sun will no more be your light by day,
nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you,
for the LORD will be your everlasting light,
and your God will be your glory.
20 Your sun will never set again,
and your moon will wane no more;
the LORD will be your everlasting light,
and your days of sorrow will end.
21 Then will all your people be righteous
and they will possess the land forever.
They are the shoot I have planted,
the work of my hands,
for the display of my splendor. 22 The least of you will become a thousand,
the smallest a mighty nation.
I am the LORD;
in its time I will do this swiftly."

 

[Micah68]

No Where in Christ's teachings is the land ever elevated above faith. The land, which is God's land, has NOTHING to do with faith. When the land becomes the primary focus, instead of living as Christ taught, then it has become and idol.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, 50 a time 51 is coming when you will worship 52 the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 4:22 You people 53 worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews. 54 4:23 But a time 55 is coming – and now is here 56 – when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks 57 such people to be 58 his worshipers.59 4:24 God is spirit, 60 and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (the one called Christ); 61 “whenever he 62 comes, he will tell 63 us everything.” 64 4:26 Jesus said to her, “I, the one speaking to you, am he.”

 

[Servant222]

When the land becomes the primary focus, instead of living as Christ taught, then it has become an idol.

So when are the Palestinians going to start doing this- stop making the land the focus of their suicidal efforts and instead start "living as Christ taught"???

 

[Carey]

No Where in Christ's teachings is the land ever elevated above faith. The land, which is God's land, has NOTHING to do with faith. When the land becomes the primary focus, instead of living as Christ taught, then it has become and idol.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, 50 a time 51 is coming when you will worship 52 the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 4:22 You people 53 worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews. 54 4:23 But a time 55 is coming – and now is here 56 – when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks 57 such people to be 58 his worshipers.59 4:24 God is spirit, 60 and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (the one called Christ); 61 “whenever he 62 comes, he will tell 63 us everything.” 64 4:26 Jesus said to her, “I, the one speaking to you, am he.”

CORRECT !!!

The land has nothing to do with salvation and faith as the word says.

But the land is an everlasting promise to a certain people. And God keeps his promises even if they do nothing but get flesh circumcision . That was the deal.
The reason even though they have the land as was prophecied wars will continue is because that too was prophecied.

Guess what??
I promise you they will have the land of Cannan until Yeshua returns and wars and rumor of wars will continue.
Famines and earthquakes in many places will continue and famines will increase.

I promise you if you trust God he will give each and everyone of you all you need to be happy and survive until tour time is up.

I promise you anything that you pray for you will recieve as long is heart is after Gods own heart who knows your heart.

 

[Micah68]

So when are the Palestinians going to start doing this- stop making the land the focus of their suicidal efforts and instead start "living as Christ taught"???

Excuse me?! Are you for real?


"Christian History Corner: Palestinian Christians, Strangers in a Familiar Land"
"They've called the Holy Land home for centuries, but they've never actually governed themselves"
by Steven Gertz
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/augustweb-only/8-4-53.0.html

Many western Christians still aren't aware of the Christian presence in Israel/Palestine. I wasn't until my freshman year at Wheaton College, when I asked for a missionary kid as a roommate and the college matched me up with a Palestinian Christian. My new friend soon informed me that Palestinian Christians had lived in the Holy Land since the time of Jesus, and that Christians in the West needed to know that Israel was discriminating against fellow believers, depriving them of their land and opportunity. Years later, I traveled to Ramallah in the West Bank to visit the Christian orphanage his father ran. My former roommate's descriptions matched the mood I felt there—hopelessness over a dwindling Christian population and deteriorating economic conditions.
I left Ramallah with many questions. How did the Palestinian Christians come to such straits? Why is Israel oppressing them? Who exactly are the Palestinian Christians, and where did they come from?

Palestinian Christians Today
Muslim rule came to an end with the British occupation of the Holy Land in 1917. The British Mandate provided Christians with a welcome respite from Turkish control; high birth rates contributed to an increase in the population. When the state of Israel declared itself in 1948 and an estimated 750,000 "Palestinian" Arabs fled the country (never to be allowed back in), many Christians stayed, doubling the ratio of Arab Christians to Muslims, especially in towns like Nazareth and Bethlehem.
Despite this, Palestinian Christians have suffered discrimination—and brutality—from Israel. Even though the Israeli constitution assures Christians "freedom of religion, conscience, education and culture," they live as second-class citizens. Israel refuses to allow them to serve in its military, and Palestinian Christians have fewer educational and employment opportunities. Also, Israel's troops, in response to suicidal terrorists bombing Israeli citizens, have confiscated land belonging to Palestinian Christians.
Since the founding of Israel, massive numbers of Palestinian Christians have left the Holy Land, due to Israel's occupation of their land and the dismal state of the economy in Palestinian towns. Today, they make up only 2 percent of the country, when they claimed 17 percent of the population around 1900.
Most Palestinian Christians support the quest for a homeland. But Christians familiar with the rising tide of Muslim persecution in other parts of the Middle East must ask what kind of government the Palestinian Authority (PA) might create once/if Israel releases control. Various watchdog organizations point out that since the PA took over Bethlehem in 1993, Christians have dropped from 60 percent of the population to 30 percent, and they cite incidents of Palestinian police harassing Christians. It would seem then that Palestinian Christians are caught between a wary, unfriendly Israeli state and increasingly hostile Muslim neighbors. No wonder bishop Assal fears for the Christians of his country. (The World image of Western Christianity is not pretty)
Steven Gertz is editorial coordinator of Christian History. More Christian History, including a list of events that occurred this week in the church's past, is available at ChristianHistory.net. Subscriptions to the quarterly print magazine are also available.

 

[Tanakh]

The laws of the "new testament" are void in Israel so stop trying to use Jesus as a way to "prove" that we Jews do not have ownership of the land. The Torah is all that applies in Israel and is what G-d deems absolute truth. Christianity and Islam as well as Secularism should not be allowed to flourish within Israel's borders and if that means that certain "rights" are taken away from them then so be it. The Torah is the law of the land not the "new testament" and thus Israel will be governed according to the Torah's principles.

 

[Micah68]

Those who interpret the land promises literally must also take the law literally. Israel cannot have the land and oppress the poor according to God's Holy Word.

Lev. 19:33 When a foreigner resides 53 with you in your land, you must not oppress him. 19:34 The foreigner who resides with you must be to you like a native citizen among you; so 54 you must love him as yourself, because you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God. 19:35 You must not do injustice in the regulation of measures, whether of length, weight, or volume. 55 19:36 You must have honest balances, 56 honest weights, an honest ephah, and an honest hin. 57 I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt. 19:37 You must be sure to obey all my statutes and regulations. 58 I am the Lord.’”

The Covenant Curses
Deut. 27:14 “The Levites will call out to every Israelite 9 with a loud voice: 27:15 ‘Cursed is the one 10 who makes a carved or metal image – something abhorrent 11 to the Lord, the work of the craftsman 12 – and sets it up in a secret place.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 13 27:16 ‘Cursed 14 is the one who disrespects 15 his father and mother.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:17 ‘Cursed is the one who moves his neighbor’s boundary marker.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:18 ‘Cursed is the one who misleads a blind person on the road.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:19 ‘Cursed is the one who perverts justice for the resident foreigner, the orphan, and the widow.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:20 ‘Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with 16 his father’s former wife, 17 for he dishonors his father.’ 18 Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:21 ‘Cursed is the one who commits inappropriate behavior with animals.’ 19 Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:22 ‘Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with his sister, the daughter of either his father or mother.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:23 ‘Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with his mother-in-law.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:24 ‘Cursed is the one who kills 20 his neighbor in private.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:25 ‘Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to kill an innocent person.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:26 ‘Cursed is the one who refuses to keep the words of this law.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’


Exhortation to Covenant Obedience
Deut.30:15 “Look! I have set before you today life and prosperity on the one hand, and death and disaster on the other. 30:16 What 21 I am commanding you today is to love the Lord your God, to walk in his ways, and to obey his commandments, his statutes, and his ordinances. Then you will live and become numerous and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you are about to possess. 22 30:17 However, if you 23 turn aside and do not obey, but are lured away to worship and serve other gods, 30:18 I declare to you this very day that you will certainly 24 perish! You will not extend your time in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess. 25 30:19 Today I invoke heaven and earth as a witness against you that I have set life and death, blessing and curse, before you. Therefore choose life so that you and your descendants may live! 30:20 I also call on you 26 to love the Lord your God, to obey him and be loyal to him, for he gives you life and enables you to live continually 27 in the land the Lord promised to give to your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”



The condition for holding the land has always been faithfulness, there is NO relationship or similarity between modern day Israel and faithful Israel of OT time. Today's Israel (the Government) serves only Satan and those that worship and give their blind support to this political and militaristic entity do so like wise. Thank God for the grass root movements of people on all sides that are so very tired of the suffering and injustice and suffer by all sides. Justice must be applied fairly and equally to Palestinians and Israelis.

 

[Tanakh]

Those who interpret the land promises literally must also take the law literally. Israel cannot have the land and oppress the poor according to God's Holy Word.

Lev. 19:33 When a foreigner resides 53 with you in your land, you must not oppress him. 19:34 The foreigner who resides with you must be to you like a native citizen among you; so 54 you must love him as yourself, because you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God. 19:35 You must not do injustice in the regulation of measures, whether of length, weight, or volume. 55 19:36 You must have honest balances, 56 honest weights, an honest ephah, and an honest hin. 57 I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt. 19:37 You must be sure to obey all my statutes and regulations. 58 I am the Lord.’”

The Covenant Curses
Deut. 27:14 “The Levites will call out to every Israelite 9 with a loud voice: 27:15 ‘Cursed is the one 10 who makes a carved or metal image – something abhorrent 11 to the Lord, the work of the craftsman 12 – and sets it up in a secret place.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 13 27:16 ‘Cursed 14 is the one who disrespects 15 his father and mother.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:17 ‘Cursed is the one who moves his neighbor’s boundary marker.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:18 ‘Cursed is the one who misleads a blind person on the road.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:19 ‘Cursed is the one who perverts justice for the resident foreigner, the orphan, and the widow.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:20 ‘Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with 16 his father’s former wife, 17 for he dishonors his father.’ 18 Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:21 ‘Cursed is the one who commits inappropriate behavior with animals.’ 19 Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:22 ‘Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with his sister, the daughter of either his father or mother.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:23 ‘Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with his mother-in-law.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:24 ‘Cursed is the one who kills 20 his neighbor in private.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:25 ‘Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to kill an innocent person.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:26 ‘Cursed is the one who refuses to keep the words of this law.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’


Exhortation to Covenant Obedience
Deut.30:15 “Look! I have set before you today life and prosperity on the one hand, and death and disaster on the other. 30:16 What 21 I am commanding you today is to love the Lord your God, to walk in his ways, and to obey his commandments, his statutes, and his ordinances. Then you will live and become numerous and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you are about to possess. 22 30:17 However, if you 23 turn aside and do not obey, but are lured away to worship and serve other gods, 30:18 I declare to you this very day that you will certainly 24 perish! You will not extend your time in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess. 25 30:19 Today I invoke heaven and earth as a witness against you that I have set life and death, blessing and curse, before you. Therefore choose life so that you and your descendants may live! 30:20 I also call on you 26 to love the Lord your God, to obey him and be loyal to him, for he gives you life and enables you to live continually 27 in the land the Lord promised to give to your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”



The condition for holding the land has always been faithfulness, there is NO relationship or similarity between modern day Israel and faithful Israel of OT time. Today's Israel (the Government) serves only Satan and those that worship and give their blind support to this political and militaristic entity do so like wise. Thank God for the grass root movements of people on all sides that are so very tired of the suffering and injustice and suffer by all sides. Justice must be applied fairly and equally to Palestinians and Israelis.

When the Torah speaks of those foreigners who dwell within the land it is not stating that they are permanent residents but only to those who are passing through the land and if they go against even one law of the Torah then they can be destroyed. True the modern secular state is not the Israel of "the good old days" and that is something that must be corrected so that Israel can become the true Torah state that it has always been destined to become.

 

[Micah68]

When the Torah speaks of those foreigners who dwell within the land it is not stating that they are permanent residents but only to those who are passing through the land and if they go against even one law of the Torah then they can be destroyed. True the modern secular state is not the Israel of "the good old days" and that is something that must be corrected so that Israel can become the true Torah state that it has always been destined to become.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/3strongoaths.cfm

Three Strong Oaths
At the outset of the Jews' exile to Babylonia, the Prophet Jeremiah, in chapter 29 of his book proclaimed G-d's message to all the exiled…Verse seven reads, "Seek out the welfare of the city to which I have exiled you and pray for it to the Almighty, for through its welfare will you have welfare." This has been a cornerstone of Jewish "foreign policy" how to behave in the lands of the nations throughout our ensuing exiles till this very day.
There Jeremiah adds in the name of G-d (verses 8 and 9), "Do not let your false prophets among you and your sorcerers seduce you, do not head your dreamers which you cause them to dream. For they speak falsely to you in My name. I did not send them." This too has applied to all the would-be misleaders of Jewry whether they presented themselves as prophets or as sorcerers or as dreamers of national aspirations.
King Solomon in Song of Songs thrice adjured the "daughters of Jerusalem" not to arouse or bestir the love until it is ready." The Talmud explains That we have been foresworn, by three strong oaths, not to ascend to the Holy Land as a group using force, not to rebel against the governments of countries in which we live, and not by our sins, to prolong the coming of moshiach; as is written in Tractate Kesubos 111a .
Throughout the seventy years of the Babylonian exile, throughout the 200 years of the Hellenic exile and throughout the 1917 since the destruction of G-d's Holy House, we have steadfastly maintained our loyalty to G-d and have not transgressed His oaths. And we have prayed for the welfare of the cities and the countries of our host nations that did not oppress us, and in their welfare we indeed always found ours.
Whoever violates Jeremiah's principles or Solomon's oaths immediately imperils the welfare of Jews locally and elsewhere in the world.

 

[gwynedd1]

I am not blaming one side- I have already expressed great empathy for the Palestinians.

But I have absolutely no use for those who either engage in violent acts, or support those acts.

And I do believe that it is the Palestinians, partly because they do not trust God and follow the example of Jesus, who are the instigators of most of the violence that we see.

Hello Servant222,

You are suggesting the majority of Israel follows the example of Jesus? You also have refused to address such things I have posted in a meaningful way. Cluster bombs, torture, humiliation, subterfuge is all under Israel's account. Did you even research what I said about Moshe Dayan? What good is empathy when you are biased?

I have stated that especially Gaza is dysfunctional. I started this thread documenting terror is done in the name of Palestinians and it is necessary for Palestinians to protest against terror done in its name for even its own sake. I also state very plainly Islamic interpretations are much more open to force and therefore is also dysfunctional though there are also references that seem more open to peace. Judaism is also rather mixed in this regard and is much more open to war than is Christianity. This ignores that Israel is a secular state with many atheist and non practicing Jews.

My concern is Israel is supported by so called Christians and vile acts against humanity are done in my name and my faith. That is why I am here. You appear here to defend Israel and it is rather unclear what you think this state represents. Democracy? What does that mean? One man one vote can mean two men vote to bulldoze the house of another. Is it God? What is God without Jesus? What does it mean with out him?

However I am rather bemused at your stance of clarity and then the refrain to bias against Palestinians because they don't follow Jesus. Nobody around there is following Jesus except a few remaining Christians that were not driven out.

 

[Carey]

Those who interpret the land promises literally must also take the law literally. Israel cannot have the land and oppress the poor according to God's Holy Word.

Lev. 19:33 When a foreigner resides 53 with you in your land, you must not oppress him. 19:34 The foreigner who resides with you must be to you like a native citizen among you; so 54 you must love him as yourself, because you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God. 19:35 You must not do injustice in the regulation of measures, whether of length, weight, or volume. 55 19:36 You must have honest balances, 56 honest weights, an honest ephah, and an honest hin. 57 I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt. 19:37 You must be sure to obey all my statutes and regulations. 58 I am the Lord.’”

The Covenant Curses
Deut. 27:14 “The Levites will call out to every Israelite 9 with a loud voice: 27:15 ‘Cursed is the one 10 who makes a carved or metal image – something abhorrent 11 to the Lord, the work of the craftsman 12 – and sets it up in a secret place.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 13 27:16 ‘Cursed 14 is the one who disrespects 15 his father and mother.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:17 ‘Cursed is the one who moves his neighbor’s boundary marker.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:18 ‘Cursed is the one who misleads a blind person on the road.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:19 ‘Cursed is the one who perverts justice for the resident foreigner, the orphan, and the widow.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:20 ‘Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with 16 his father’s former wife, 17 for he dishonors his father.’ 18 Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:21 ‘Cursed is the one who commits inappropriate behavior with animals.’ 19 Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:22 ‘Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with his sister, the daughter of either his father or mother.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:23 ‘Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with his mother-in-law.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:24 ‘Cursed is the one who kills 20 his neighbor in private.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:25 ‘Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to kill an innocent person.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’ 27:26 ‘Cursed is the one who refuses to keep the words of this law.’ Then all the people will say, ‘Amen!’

The condition for holding the land has always been faithfulness, there is NO relationship or similarity between modern day Israel and faithful Israel of OT time. Today's Israel (the Government) serves only Satan and those that worship and give their blind support to this political and militaristic entity do so like wise. Thank God for the grass root movements of people on all sides that are so very tired of the suffering and injustice and suffer by all sides. Justice must be applied fairly and equally to Palestinians and Israelis.

Like if Israel did not have the same Governemnt everything would be peachy like In Turkey with the Kurds and in Lebanon between the Islamists and the somewhat secular governement. and in Iraq ,Iran, Pakistan and evryother predomiantly muslim country..LOL

Here is what the Nazi grass roots movements are causing.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Sheetrit said that new immigrants should not automatically receive citizenship, but have a five-year waiting period, take a pledge of allegiance and pass a Hebrew-proficiency test prior to becoming Israeli.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]He specifically referred to a rise in cases of neo- Nazism among Russian immigrants, some one million of which immigrated to Israel in the past 16 years. Three to four hundred thousand of the Russian immigrants are non-Jews recruited by the Jewish Agency using Jewish donor funds.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]As it stands, the Law of Return, passed in 1950, mirrors the classifications of "Jewish descent" outlined in the Nazi Nuremberg Laws, with the intention that anyone who would have been persecuted as Jewish by the Nazis be granted refuge in the Jewish State.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Under this law, the Jewish Agency has been accused of taking advantage of the Law to recruit non-Jews with tenuous connections to the Jewish people - via one grandparent or the marriage of relatives to a Jew - promising them a better economic situation so as to increase the numbers of immigrants it can report having brought.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Many groups have called for the Law of Return to be amended to open Israel's doors only to those considered Jewish by Halacha (Jewish Law).[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]The Interior Minister is, however, calling to make aliyah harder for all Jews. The ministry proposes to change the Law of Return to reflect absorption policies of other Western countries. "I want to see that he is not a criminal, that he is learning Hebrew and that he is here for five years before receiving citizenship," Sheetrit said.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]The Jewish Agency said in response that "the State of Israel must remain open to any Jew, without any conditions" and continues to support the Law of Return in its current form.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Sheetrit said the funding spent on encouraging aliyah should be used to help immigrants already living in Israel, "whose lives are miserable."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Michael Freund, who heads the Shavei Israel organization, which assists groups of Jewish descent in converting and moving to Israel called Sheetrit's remarks "post-Zionism in its ugliest form."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]"Essentially, Mr. Sheetrit has lost sight of what Zionism and Israel are all about. The country was founded on immigration and meant to serve as a refuge for the entire Jewish people," Freund said. Freund pointed out that Sheetrit's own family, immigrants from Morocco, would themselves bear the brunt of his callousness had he been Interior Minister at the time of their aliyah. "It is as if he has forgotten everything that he and his family and millions of other immigrants went through."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Commenting on Sheetrit's mocking of descendents of the lost ten Jewish tribes, Freund alleged that Sheetrit has refused to study the issue or even meet with members of communities such as the Bnei Menashe, who have been converting and moving to Israel from northeast India. "Sheetrit is, unfortunately, exploiting recent news reports about the discovery of neo-Nazis among recent immigrants to Israel as an excuse to keep out other unrelated groups that sincerely want to tie their fate with the people of Israel. These are apples and oranges. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Freund went one step further: "Mr. Sheetrit has no place serving in the government of a Zionist Jewish state There is a strong element of racism and ignorance that runs through Mr. Sheetrit's thinking on this issue. A person's country of origin or the color of their skin has nothing whatsoever to do with their Jewish identity - nor should it. The return to Zion is a Divine process that is greater than any one man or institution. And no one, not even a minister in the cabinet, can stand in its way. The return of the Bnei Menashe to Israel can and will continue."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Israel's Chief Rabbinate recognized the Bnei Menashe as "Descendants of Israel" in March, 2005 and sent a a beit din (rabbinical court) on its behalf to the region to formally convert them to Judaism.[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Carey]

Stupidity is Killing Palestinians.

They are Godless and threaten violence unless Israel and the world try to break Bible prophecy and give them Israels land. They say belongs to them.

Its all about the land to the Palestinians and Muslims too.

But God will never allow them to take it again.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Many Israeli Arab MKs, like MK Ahmad Tibi of UAL, however, are calling for a full Israel withdrawal to the 1967 borders, which would preclude the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]"There can be no peace agreement without the dismantlement of settlements and the removal of settlers, including immigrants who have come from abroad and have taken control in the West Bank of land that doesn't belong to them," the Jerusalem Post quoted Tibi as saying on Sunday.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]"The borders must be the 1967 lines, including east Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine," Tibi added.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Meanwhile, Culture, Science and Sport Minister Ghaleb Majadle is calling on the government to cede the Golan Heights to Syria.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]"Peace is most important thing," he said. "For true peace I'm certain that the people of Israel will agree to return the Golan," according to the Jerusalem Post.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]However the Ultra Orthodox party Shas, led by Eli Yishai, has also threatened to drop out of Olmert's coalition over similar issues, in what could cause the collapse of Olmert's government. The current peace talks have seen much opposition in Israel across the political spectrum, with critics citing poor timing, weak PA leadership, and unreasonable concessions.[/FONT][/FONT]

It's not that they wouldnt like to divide Jerusalem at this time but, for their purposes it's something they can use for negotiations but then give up the JERUSALEM PLOY to get what they really want. It was vital in their planning to get Jewish and Christian supporters of Israel to ignore the planned main take-over and have us focus primarily on Jerusalem.
especially former Secretary of State James Baker III. Baker learned a lot about us from his State Department Jew-Boys, Dennis Ross, Aaron Miller and Daniel Kurtzer (later joined by Martin Indyk). Baker learned how we think! Jews tend to focus on humanitarian goals and, therefore, are easily misled on other issues. This may be a weakness which our adversaries will take advantage of for the Annapolis Conference.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]The Nazis similarly also understood our weakness and our desire to believe the best about other people - even those who were endangering our existence. This inner knowledge of our naivet facilitated their plans for their "Final Solution to the Jewish Question". Therefore, please start to use your Jewish "Sechel" (smarts) to re-construct the meetings and plannings of Rice and her co-conspirators to recruit the Jews to assist in their own demise. The Germans at Wannsee under Heydrich and Eichmann similarly used their understanding of Jewish wishful thinking that people were well-intentioned to ease the way to death camps.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]The Annapolis Conference for "Peace in Our Time" is the American version of the infamous Wannsee Conference. The main goal of Rice, Bush - and others - is to divide Israel and build another Palestinian state out of what's left. Manipulating us to dwell only on the vital issue of Jerusalem, we would leave the rest of Israel to fall into Muslim Arab hands. Weakening Israel by dividing an already minuscule and vulnerable nation is a definitive obsession for those who have been invited to what amounts to a pre-execution ceremony.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Now that they've turned what was once a veritable Garden of Eden in Gush Katif/Gaza into a Global Terror Base, they wish to "move on" to their primary goal of eliminating a militarily strong, democratic non- Muslim nation. Once they have Judea, Samaria, the Jordan Valley and the Golan Heights, it's just a matter of time before Jerusalem would fall into their hands like a ripe apple. Who would be clever enough to understand our psychology so well as to lure us into another Nazi- style sucker play? IF we could get the planners under subpoena, we might start to get at the truth. Who understands us? Who studies us? Who are part of us to understand how to manipulate us? The answers to these five questions is a mix of special interests but, all have the same goal.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]We could go back to Baker's Jew-Boys: Dennis Ross, Aaron Miller, Daniel Kurtzer and Martin Indyk. Then there is always Baker himself, presently advising C. Rice and the group dedicated to dismembering Israel. Here we also find former President Jimmy Carter as a selected advisor to C. Rice who brings to the table his pathological hatred of the Jewish nation. Carter is currently making millions by promoting his virulently anti-Semitic, anti-Israel book, which makes him an ideal advisor to Rice for the Annapolis Conference.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]We cannot forget the wicked machinations of those un- Jews of Israel: Ehud Olmert, Shimon Peres, Ehud Barak - among others who wish to de-judaize the Jewish nation while they retain political power. As is said, they know what makes us tick! Rice has also been consulting with the Saudis and Mubarak of Egypt as to how to get Israeli and American Jews to negotiate their fate away at the Annapolis Conference.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]This unholy gaggle of people have wanted to divide, if not eliminate Israel since her first days. The Jews of the Left never grasped that they too were slated to be eliminated, as indicative of their mind-set. They opened themselves, all Jews and Israel, up for elimination when they ruled that there could be no praise of G-d for the miracle of winning the 1967 Six Day War against three powerful armies. The word: "G- d" could not be mentioned in any official documents.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]By waving the danger of losing Jerusalem in our faces, they trick us into ignoring their Greater Plan. They want Israel to be divided into a reservation for Palestinian Muslim Arabs with the unworkable thought they can pacify the Arab Muslims and eliminate terror against the Free West from other Muslim Arab nations. With Hamas and Fatah as heirs to Arafats Terror, once Judea and Samaria are in their hands, 3 to 5 million Arab Muslim Palestinian, supposedly the descendants from the 460,000 who left in 1948, will be pushed into those areas by the surrounding Arab nations who now house them in squalid refugee camps. They will ignore any agreements promising not to permit the flooding of what was Israel with 5 million immigrants.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Anyone who believes that the Iranians, Syrians, Saudis, Egyptians, they can give a damn about Palestinian Arab Muslims had better start re-thinking their position. To them, the Palestinians were good for one thing only which was/is to keep the Arab Muslim and International pressure on Israel. They want Israel gone - along with the Palestinians. This kind of planning that is doomed to fail is typical of the Arabist U.S. State Department, particularly if it is only Israel who must pay the ultimate price.[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Micah68]

Only Peace Will Stem Emigration, Of Christians from the Holy Land, Leaders Tell HCEF Conference



31-Oct-07
HCEF, Bethesda, Maryland
Contact: www.hcef.org
toll free at 866-871-HCEF (4233)

http://www.hcef.org/index.cfm/mod/news/ID/16/SubMod/NewsView/NewsID/1889.cfmUnless the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is resolved peacefully and soon, emigration of Christians from the land of Jesus will leave very few ‘living stones” in the Holy Land, several prominent Arab and other Christian leaders asserted at the Ninth Annual Conference of the Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation (HCEF).


Over five hundred participants attended HCEF’s gathering at National Presbyterian Church in Washington, DC, its annual Awards Banquet in Bethesda, Maryland, and the Children Conference at John Paul II Cultural Center on October 26-27.

Insisting that “peace is part of the Christian vocation,” HCEF President Rateb Rabie invoked Jesus’ directive to “feed my lambs” in urging support of HCEF’s programs on behalf of the Holy Land’s remaining Christian population. HCEF provides assistance in the areas of education, job creation, housing, and social welfare, often in collaboration with other like-minded organizations.

HCEF also conducts Holy Land pilgrimages which feature Christian guides and visits to Christian churches and families, as well as to the traditional Christian holy places. HCEF’s extensive educational outreach efforts provide information about the situation of Christians in the Holy Land and offer channels through which interested parties may help them.

Only about two percent of the population of the Holy Land is Christian today, down from almost a quarter sixty years ago.

The conference featured presentations by the Christian mayors of Bethlehem and four other Palestinian cities, as well as by the representative of the Palestinian Liberation Organization to Chile, a country which is home to about 350,000 Christians who trace their roots to the Holy Land. That number exceeds the number of Christians who remain in Palestine/Israel.

The mayors stressed the dire conditions facing their citizens as a result of the continued Israeli military occupation of Palestinian territories, the Israeli separation wall, the destruction of Palestinian homes and agricultural resources, and the lack of economic opportunities.

Under the constitution of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, there are thirteen “traditionally Christian” cities and towns in Palestine, and they must have Christian mayors. The five who addressed the HCEF conference are four men, Raji Zeidan, mayor of Beit Jala; Dr. Victor Batarseh, Bethlehem; Hani Naji Hayek, Beit Sahour; and Dr. Yousef Nasser, Bir Zeit; and one woman, Jannet Michael, Ramallah. Mayor Michael noted that today there are more Christians from Ramallah in Detroit than there are in Ramallah.

The mayors and other conference speakers stressed that harsh and often unpredictable Israeli restrictions on the movement of people and goods have caused great suffering among the Palestinians. Palestinians who do not live in Jerusalem may not go there without a special permit, which is almost impossible to obtain; Palestinian agricultural products are commonly delayed at Israeli military checkpoints (there are over 700) until they spoil; the separation wall cuts farmers off from their fields and flocks, and families from their relatives and from their churches.

Mayor Zeidan of the majority-Christian town of Beit Jala (the name means “grass and flowers”) said that removing the separation wall, which has taken half of the land around the city, would be “the most important step we could take toward peace.”

Newly imposed travel restrictions prevented on of the founders of the Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation, Palestinian Catholic priest Emil Salayta, from attending the HCEF conference.

For more information on the Christians of the Holy Land, see www.hcef.org

 

[Carey]

Only Peace Will Stem Emigration, Of Christians from the Holy Land, Leaders Tell HCEF Conference



31-Oct-07
HCEF, Bethesda, Maryland
Contact: www.hcef.org
toll free at 866-871-HCEF (4233)

http://www.hcef.org/index.cfm/mod/news/ID/16/SubMod/NewsView/NewsID/1889.cfmUnless the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is resolved peacefully and soon, emigration of Christians from the land of Jesus will leave very few ‘living stones” in the Holy Land, several prominent Arab and other Christian leaders asserted at the Ninth Annual Conference of the Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation (HCEF).


Over five hundred participants attended HCEF’s gathering at National Presbyterian Church in Washington, DC, its annual Awards Banquet in Bethesda, Maryland, and the Children Conference at John Paul II Cultural Center on October 26-27.

Insisting that “peace is part of the Christian vocation,” HCEF President Rateb Rabie invoked Jesus’ directive to “feed my lambs” in urging support of HCEF’s programs on behalf of the Holy Land’s remaining Christian population. HCEF provides assistance in the areas of education, job creation, housing, and social welfare, often in collaboration with other like-minded organizations.

HCEF also conducts Holy Land pilgrimages which feature Christian guides and visits to Christian churches and families, as well as to the traditional Christian holy places. HCEF’s extensive educational outreach efforts provide information about the situation of Christians in the Holy Land and offer channels through which interested parties may help them.

Only about two percent of the population of the Holy Land is Christian today, down from almost a quarter sixty years ago.

The conference featured presentations by the Christian mayors of Bethlehem and four other Palestinian cities, as well as by the representative of the Palestinian Liberation Organization to Chile, a country which is home to about 350,000 Christians who trace their roots to the Holy Land. That number exceeds the number of Christians who remain in Palestine/Israel.

The mayors stressed the dire conditions facing their citizens as a result of the continued Israeli military occupation of Palestinian territories, the Israeli separation wall, the destruction of Palestinian homes and agricultural resources, and the lack of economic opportunities.

Under the constitution of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, there are thirteen “traditionally Christian” cities and towns in Palestine, and they must have Christian mayors. The five who addressed the HCEF conference are four men, Raji Zeidan, mayor of Beit Jala; Dr. Victor Batarseh, Bethlehem; Hani Naji Hayek, Beit Sahour; and Dr. Yousef Nasser, Bir Zeit; and one woman, Jannet Michael, Ramallah. Mayor Michael noted that today there are more Christians from Ramallah in Detroit than there are in Ramallah.

The mayors and other conference speakers stressed that harsh and often unpredictable Israeli restrictions on the movement of people and goods have caused great suffering among the Palestinians. Palestinians who do not live in Jerusalem may not go there without a special permit, which is almost impossible to obtain; Palestinian agricultural products are commonly delayed at Israeli military checkpoints (there are over 700) until they spoil; the separation wall cuts farmers off from their fields and flocks, and families from their relatives and from their churches.

Mayor Zeidan of the majority-Christian town of Beit Jala (the name means “grass and flowers”) said that removing the separation wall, which has taken half of the land around the city, would be “the most important step we could take toward peace.”

Newly imposed travel restrictions prevented on of the founders of the Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation, Palestinian Catholic priest Emil Salayta, from attending the HCEF conference.

For more information on the Christians of the Holy Land, see [URL="http://www.hcef.org"]www.hcef.org[/URL]

See Palestinians and there weakness to stand up against the Muslim leaders of hamas and fatah has forced Israel to put security measures in that effect Christians too.

Islam is at fault and the followers of it.

 

[Servant222]

It is sad because Palestinian Christians who are following the Word of God are likely not participating in or supporting the violence, but are still suffering because of it.

I maintain that the fundamental problem is still the soldiers of satan amongst the Palestinians, who believe that mayhem and unchecked violence will somehow further their cause. Some of them use the Islamic faith as an excuse for their evil acts, but, sadly, some in fact honestly believe that their faith requires or justifies the violence.

Until all sides in the conflict lay down their arms, absolutely reject violence, and embrace the rule of law, nothing much will change and, sadly, the Palestinians will continue to suffer.

 

[Micah68]

See Palestinians and there weakness to stand up against the Muslim leaders of hamas and fatah has forced Israel to put security measures in that effect Christians too.

Islam is at fault and the followers of it.

Carey, Your ingnorace of the history, the occupation and Islam in Israel/Palestine is so very evident in your above comment. How might you explain Christians, Muslims and yes Jews (indigenous Jews not Ashkenazi Jews) living side by side in neighborly love (for centuries) prior to 1948? How might you explain why a Muslim family keeps the keys to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher?

 

[Tanakh]

Carey, Your ingnorace of the history, the occupation and Islam in Israel/Palestine is so very evident in your above comment. How might you explain Christians, Muslims and yes Jews (indigenous Jews not Ashkenazi Jews) living side by side in neighborly love (for centuries) prior to 1948? How might you explain why a Muslim family keeps the keys to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher?

Muslims, Christians and Jews did NOT live side by side for centuries in peace. This period of "peace" was simply tolerance at work not true love. A Muslim family keeps the keys of the Holy Sepulcher because the Catholic church and the Orthodox church cannot get along so they have others regulate the building for them. And by the way Ashkenazic Jews are self hating as they beg at those who want to destroy them yet the Sephardic Jews know how the Muslims are and thus dealt with them more effectively then the Ashkenazi did and still do.

 

[Micah68]

Muslims, Christians and Jews did NOT live side by side for centuries in peace. This period of "peace" was simply tolerance at work not true love. A Muslim family keeps the keys of the Holy Sepulcher because the Catholic church and the Orthodox church cannot get along so they have others regulate the building for them. And by the way Ashkenazic Jews are self hating as they beg at those who want to destroy them yet the Sephardic Jews know how the Muslims are and thus dealt with them more effectively then the Ashkenazi did and still do.

Christian-Moslem Harmony in Jerusalem By: Issam Mufid Nashashibi
[SIZE=-1]Mr. Nashashibi testifies that "I did not hear of differences between Christians and Muslims until I left Jerusalem". This is what Christians and Muslims say in the Middle East. They are bloodbrothers and sisters of the same heritage, the Arab heritage. Fundamentalism was created outside of our Home countries so as to dominate over over destiny. Arab Muslims and Arab Christians are brother and sisters.[/SIZE]