How to choose between creation and evolution.

[Brightmoon]

The graph just pointed out that some scientists are theists or deists or believe in a higher power of some kind or other. Accepting ID, which is a shoehorn of religion into science, isn’t accepted much in the scientific community. Even Francis Collins doesn’t do it

 

[tas8831]

first: how do you know thay are real insertions?

How do you know they are not?

What is your alternative explanation for these sequences?

Coincidence? If so, please show the math supporting this.

 

[DogmaHunter]

correct. so most biologists believe in a designer.

No, that's just you misrepresenting said graph.

It talks about a "higher power". Not a designer.
They are not synonymous.

 

[tas8831]

so we both agree that many biologists believe in higher power.

Yes, never said otherwise.

But more relevant than this is how many accept YECism or 'Intelligent Design.'


And that number is well, well, below half - in the neighborhood of only a few percent.

 

[Brightmoon]

Honestly if I remember correctly, I think it’s less than 1% at least with the evolution-denying professional biologists

 

[Brightmoon]

The Steve list was a parody of creationist lists of scientists who don’t accept science. I meant evolution but I think I had it right the first time

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You figured out that google smarts is not real smarts?

How could I prove that wrong when I know it is true?

Still waiting for your example of creation-proving anatomy.

I'm sure that if you ever stop dodging and bluffing, it will be hilarious.

I look at anatomy and see elegant design. What more can I say?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

dp

 

[HitchSlap]

I look at anatomy and see elegant design. What more can I say?

You've never had low back pain, have you?

 

[HitchSlap]

I look at anatomy and see elegant design. What more can I say?

DP

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You've never had low back pain, have you?

Oh yeah.....from overexertion and lack of rest. The designer of our back gave us the remedy for that....a period of 24 hours of R&R each week.

 

[HitchSlap]

Oh yeah.....from overexertion and lack of rest. The designer of our back gave us the remedy for that....a period of 24 hours of R&R each week.

The remedy for low back pain is given after a colossal design failure in the lumbar spine for walking upright. Works great for walking on all four limbs, though, so that's great.

 

[HitchSlap]

Oh yeah.....from overexertion and lack of rest. The designer of our back gave us the remedy for that....a period of 24 hours of R&R each week.

The remedy for low back pain is given after a colossal design failure in the lumbar spine for walking upright. Works great for walking on all four limbs, though, so that's great.

 

[Brightmoon]

So you have a workaround for poor design . Shouldn’t our backs have been designed better . What actually happened is that you have a former quadrupedal ancestor that stood up on its hind limbs and the descendants have back problems because of it - in other words our backs evolved over time

 

[Brightmoon]

As far as back pain yoga - downward facing dog and both cat and cow positions seem to work well. They both gently stretch the spine and increase flexibility

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The remedy for low back pain is given after a colossal design failure in the lumbar spine for walking upright. Works great for walking on all four limbs, though, so that's great.

Even mechanics are surprised at the mileage I put on my vehicles.

1996 Grand Marquis, 465,000 miles, drove for 9 years.
2005 Grand Marquis, 360,000 miles (current vehicle), drove for 11 years now. Still hums like new.

Just like your vehicle, if you take care of your back it will probably work just fine. I'm 78 and still climbing trees in the fall.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The remedy for low back pain is given after a colossal design failure in the lumbar spine for walking upright. Works great for walking on all four limbs, though, so that's great.

I think our overweight people would soon develop a severe 'sway back' if they walked on all fours. I think there would be other problems with internal organs hanging without the support of the pelvic arch, abdominal muscles, etc. But what do I know, I have no formal education in such things.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

.

 

[HitchSlap]

Your personal experience in no way changes the fact that lumbar biomechanics is a bad design, predisposing humans to epidemic levels of incapacitating episodes of low back pain and sciatica.

An intelligent designer would have done a better job.

Even mechanics are surprised at the mileage I put on my vehicles.

1996 Grand Marquis, 465,000 miles, drove for 9 years.
2005 Grand Marquis, 360,000 miles (current vehicle), drove for 11 years now. Still hums like new.

Just like your vehicle, if you take care of your back it will probably work just fine. I'm 78 and still climbing trees in the fall.
View attachment 224935

 

[PsychoSarah]

You're muddying the waters here. It takes a self replicating cell to affect evolution, but such a cell must itself evolve everything needed to divide (a very complex process) and thus evolve. Don't you see the problem here?

-_- not really, considering that the protocells that form in abiogenesis experiments divide just fine, as a consequence of their growth rather than a guided process. That is, their "daughter cells" usually end up with entirely unequal distributions of proteins and RNA. It's part of why the protocells aren't considered alive. Heck, lipid bubbles that contain nothing but water will divide from time to time under the abiogenesis experiment conditions.

Basically, one would have to ignore inherent properties of cell membranes to think that the only way for a protocell to divide would be to have a specialized mechanism by which to perform that task in a controlled way.

Further, why did the original cell have to evolve in the first place? Logic tells me that rather than reacting to environmental stimuli evolution occurs in anticipation of environmental changes not yet occurring.

Even if the environment of the planet never changed, those developing cells would have competed with each other for resources eventually, and those with traits that made them better at that would persist in dividing successfully while the remainder may die out, continuing on over and over.

Also, their uncontrolled division makes them prone to huge genetic changes from generation to generation. So not only would pressures to change be inevitable, the simplistic protocell doesn't have the mechanisms necessary to produce "offspring" which retain the parent traits with any consistency.

-_- also, the shear number of lineages that have gone extinct is a pretty strong indicator that evolution is not a process that anticipates environmental changes.

 

[PsychoSarah]

double post