How to choose between creation and evolution.

[LordKroak10]

Mutations have nothing to do with it.



I'm talking about hominid fossils, most of the rest don't interest me.

Mutations have nothing to do with what? Adaptive evolution? Unless you can point out another way in which new genes come into existence, I would say that mutation is very important to evolution. It's not the only mechanism of evolution, of course, but it is the only way in which new genes develop. Either through transcription errors, damage from things like radiation, or a number of other ways, mutations are what cause changes in existing genes or even the rise of new ones.

"most of the rest don't interest me." I actually laughed out loud at that. Very well then, if you need to focus in on one specifically uncertain area of paleontology to try to make a point, then be my guest. But what will you do once we solve the question of human evolution? Will you then look for some other area of paleontology that is uncertain and claim that IT validates your skepticism of the fossil record? How convenient it must be to ignore large bodies of evidence in favor of one hotly debated topic in order to validate your opinions.

 

[KWCrazy]

How to choose between creation and evolution:
As an atheist, it doesn't really matter because there isn't any significance to anything. You're borne, you live and then you die.

As a Christian we look to what Christ told us; that we should live by every word of the Scriptures; that Adam and Eve were created by God from the beginning etc. Certainly if evolution happened the son of God would know about it and would have told us why the Scriptures teach to the contrary. So as Christians, we can be confident that creation happened just as the Scriptures say it did.

 

[Speedwell]

How to choose between creation and evolution:
As an atheist, it doesn't really matter because there isn't any significance to anything. You're borne, you live and then you die.

As a Christian we look to what Christ told us; that we should live by every word of the Scriptures; that Adam and Eve were created by God from the beginning etc. Certainly if evolution happened the son of God would know about it and would have told us why the Scriptures teach to the contrary. So as Christians, we can be confident that creation happened just as the Scriptures say it did.

You are in no position to dictate to other Christians what "Scriptures say."

 

[LordKroak10]

How to choose between creation and evolution:
As an atheist, it doesn't really matter because there isn't any significance to anything. You're borne, you live and then you die.

I don't believe you've ever met an atheist. To say that they don't believe anything is significant is a little narrow-minded. Just because an atheist does not believe in life after death does not mean that they find life to be meaningless. They simply find value in other things.

 

[Job 33:6]

If you take a good hard look at evolution you will see that it cannot supply the answers to where we came from.
Even if you don't take into account first life.
Evolution says that animals evolved because they had to in order to survive.
What I would like explained from Evolutionists is that if an animal did not have what it took to survive in a hostile environment, how did that animal thrive to produce offspring?
In one single generation it had to have mutated offspring while unable to survive.
Why wouldn't the animal just move to a different environment?

The simple answer to this is, animals that do not have what it takes to survive, go extinct. They dont thrive to produce offspring.

 

[dreadnought]

.

Silence is golden.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Given the amount of evidence for evolution, and how simple a theory it is and how much it explains, I'm incredulous that you can be incredulous that such a theory exists.

I meant the veracity of the theory itself. It presents a theory with few details. I'm guessing that if true evolution would have to involve billions of timely and fortuitous changes. Evolution only presents a few million, if even that. You can only invoke 'sufficite it to say' as a 'filler' so many times before more details are needed.

 

[Speedwell]

I meant the veracity of the theory itself. It presents a theory with few details. I'm guessing that if true evolution would have to involve billions of timely and fortuitous changes. Evolution only presents a few million, if even that. You can only present 'sufficite it to say' as a 'filler' so many times before more details are needed.

No, evolution posits constant variation, including both fortuitous and infortuitous changes, presented to the environment for selection. "Timeliness" is not an overwhelmingly important factor

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, evolution posits constant variation, including both fortuitous and infortuitous changes, presented to the environment for selection. "Timeliness" is not an overwhelmingly important factor

I meant at the molecular level.

Another question is, can evolution be 'deconstructed' back to the original life form; a life form that has the capacity to evolve into the critters we see now, including man? Evolution cannot disassociate itself from the first life form as that life form had to have the capacity within itself to evolve. It would have been a very complex little bugger that appeared 'out of nowhere', fully subject to complex change.

 

[VirOptimus]

I meant the veracity of the theory itself. It presents a theory with few details. I'm guessing that if true evolution would have to involve billions of timely and fortuitous changes. Evolution only presents a few million, if even that. You can only invoke 'sufficite it to say' as a 'filler' so many times before more details are needed.

The theory of evolution is incredibly well supported. That you, who clearly have zero scientific knowledge, doesnt understand it doesnt change this fact.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

I meant the veracity of the theory itself. It presents a theory with few details. I'm guessing that if true evolution would have to involve billions of timely and fortuitous changes. Evolution only presents a few million, if even that. You can only invoke 'sufficite it to say' as a 'filler' so many times before more details are needed.

What on earth do you mean by 'Evolution only presents a few million, if even that'?

And what do you mean by 'billions of timely and fortuitous changes'? What is your point?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What on earth do you mean by 'Evolution only presents a few million, if even that'?

And what do you mean by 'billions of timely and fortuitous changes'? What is your point?

I want the details, not an overview. I'm the kid who keeps asking "why" until dad runs out of answers and tells me to "go away", like you just did in so many words.

 

[USincognito]

Does this mean you're going to stop using your own private definition of "Darwinism" or "Darwinian evolution"?

And "metaphysics" and "natural philosophy" and "ad hominem" etc.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The theory of evolution is incredibly well supported. That you, who clearly have zero scientific knowledge, doesnt understand it doesnt change this fact.

I do understand that evolution has lots of support.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

I want the details, not an overview. I'm the kid who keeps asking "why" until dad runs out of answers and tells me to "go away", like you just did in so many words.

I didn't tell you to 'go away', I asked you to be precise about what you are asking for.

What details do you want? The sum total of independent lines of evidence that contributes to our understanding of evolution are numerous, and the amount of 'details' stupendously huge. What is it that you actually want to know because no-one can just type out 'the details' on evolution.

It would be like me asking you for a list of every priest, minister, and other religious leader that there has ever been in Christianity. Clearly, it cannot be done.

 

[VirOptimus]

I do understand that evolution has lots of support.

Really? It doesnt look like you know anything about it.

 

[KWCrazy]

You are in no position to dictate to other Christians what "Scriptures say."

On the contrary.
If I can cite the chapter and verse, I can indeed declare what the Scriptures say.
Matthew 19:4 "He answered, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female."
He believed that the stories in Genesis actually happened.
Luke 15:51 "From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation."
Matthew 24:37-39 "For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
Luke 17:28-32 "Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. Remember Lot’s wife."
Christ knew that Moses wrote the Pentateuch.
Mark 12:26 "And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?"
In that book which Christ verified, God Himself decreed; Exodus 20:11"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
Jesus declared that we live by every word of the Scriptures.
Mark 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

The one who teaches the word of God teaches truth. The one who teaches contrary to the word of God teaches heresy. I've made up nothing. I've backed up what I said by actual Scriptures. Can you do the same? We'll let the readers decide which of us represents the truth.

 

[Speedwell]

On the contrary.
If I can cite the chapter and verse, I can indeed declare what the Scriptures say.
Matthew 19:4 "He answered, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female."
He believed that the stories in Genesis actually happened.
Luke 15:51 "From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation."
Matthew 24:37-39 "For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
Luke 17:28-32 "Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. Remember Lot’s wife."
Christ knew that Moses wrote the Pentateuch.
Mark 12:26 "And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?"
In that book which Christ verified, God Himself decreed; Exodus 20:11"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
Jesus declared that we live by every word of the Scriptures.
Mark 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

The one who teaches the word of God teaches truth. The one who teaches contrary to the word of God teaches heresy. I've made up nothing. I've backed up what I said by actual Scriptures. Can you do the same? We'll let the readers decide which of us represents the truth.

LOL! Yes, and I would use those very passages to do it. But that is not the point. I'm not interested in talking you out of your beliefs about the Bible--they do no harm as long as you remember that they are just your beliefs and not a test fo faith for the rest of Christendom.

 

[xianghua]

Still, they proved that it IS possible to create components of life from basic substances.

its like saying that since a metal can evolve naturally then a robot made of metal can evolve from it. even if we had a self replicating metal it will not evolve into a self replicating robot. and the self replicating robot itself is evidence for design.

 

[VirOptimus]

its like saying that since a metal can evolve naturally then a robot made of metal can evolve from it. even if we had a self replicating metal it will not evolve into a self replicating robot. and the self replicating robot itself is evidence for design.

... no, metal does not evolve, everything else is wrong too.