How the new covenant actually works

[Oneofhope]

Clearly not everything was understood, even by the Apostles, in the very beginning. And the Apostles were not free from sin after Pentecost, because Paul caught Peter sinning and leading others to sin when he confronted him in Gal 2. So when we read the context of James' statements here in Acts 15, we see that part of what he is saying is geared toward limiting friction between the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers. Clearly sexual immorality is a sin, but meat sacrificed to idols, meat of strangled animals, and blood are no longer sinful to consume, but they are disturbing to the Jews (For these laws of Moses have been preached in Jewish synagogues in every city on every Sabbath for many generations.). And the consumption of them by the Gentiles may have caused the Jews to sin in consuming them since the Jews still believed it was sinful to consume them (1 Cor 8). Because (in terms of something that is not inherently sinful (musical instruments in worship, eating meat sacrificed to idols, eating pork, etc.)) if one believes that it is a sin, then for them it is sin, while for the one who believes it is not sin, it is not sin for them to do.

I hear what you're saying, but we have to be most cautious with the words of Paul when he asserted that we can determine for ourselves what is and is not sin. Speaking for myself, to know the behavior of the Righteous from the behavior of those who remain under the Curse of the Lord (those controlled by the yet-to-be-removed Sinful Nature), I turn to Scripture alone.

Part of understanding the New Covenant is the recognition that True Children of God will be controlled by the Holy Spirit, the Author of the Laws of the Spirit of Life. The New Covenant is Effectual . . . this is a Covenant that changes us from within and by a Power not of ourselves. If this is true, then those Laws will Transform according to Righteousness and not personal opinion.

 

[Doug Brents]

I rarely say this, but amen.

When I discovered the words of Paul when he stated that the Plan of God has been kept hidden since the beginning, recognizing HOW the Lord has kept His Story and Plan of Salvation hidden has been my primary focus for the last five years. In learning HOW the Lord's Plan has been kept hidden has brought a certain amount of Spiritual Wisdom, but ultimately, even this brings pain and grief, for today's "church" is not interested in learning of things they are unaware of. It is a burden to see how lost and confused today's "church" actually is. Pastors of today teach of peripheral ideas and concepts, all the while ignoring the fact that we as a group largely do not understand the Saving Plan of Jesus Christ proven by the fact that very few even attempt to spread that Plan to those who do not "know" Him.

If we want to fully understand the Gospel, the Saving Plan of Jesus, it is imperative that we see how God has kept it hidden from the beginning, as in the Book of Genesis.

Question: Do you believe that God is the author of Ecclesiastes where Solomon repeatedly asserts that all things are meaningless? To me, that theology seems incredibly disrespectful and shallow. In fact, Ecclesiastes shows the depression of Solomon, which opened the door for him to begin supporting false gods who required Child Sacrifice. I don't recommend that anyone follow the mindset of Solomon, for he did not seem to be led by the Spirit, but led by Wisdom alone.

Ecclesiastes 7:23 NLT - "I have always tried my best to let wisdom guide my thoughts and actions. I said to myself, "I am determined to be wise." But it didn't work."

I think that Ecclesiastes is a powerful book (although I will admit that I spend very little time studying it) that was authored by God (it is Scripture). I don't think that we should totally disregard it, but I agree that Solomon was in a funk when he said these things. I believe that the message of Solomon's "everything is meaningless" rant is true if you are seeking those things to be an end in themselves. Giving to the poor is a great thing if you are doing it as a means to glorify God, but if you are doing it as an end in itself, or as a means to glorify yourself, it is a bad thing. And the same can be said about almost every other "good work" that man can do.

I hear what you're saying, but we have to be most cautious with the words of Paul when he asserted that we can determine for ourselves what is and is not sin. Speaking for myself, to know the behavior of the Righteous from the behavior of those who remain under the Curse of the Lord (those controlled by the yet-to-be-removed Sinful Nature), I turn to Scripture alone.

Part of understanding the New Covenant is the recognition that True Children of God will be controlled by the Holy Spirit, the Author of the Laws of the Spirit of Life. The New Covenant is Effectual . . . this is a Covenant that changes us from within and by a Power not of ourselves. If this is true, then those Laws will Transform according to Righteousness and not personal opinion.

Yes, and no. I believe that there are things that can be sin for one person but not for another, based on what each person believes. For example, my in-laws believe that eating pork (or any other "unclean" food) is sinful (they worship with a Messianic Jewish Congregation). Because that is what they believe, for them it is sin if they eat it. But I do not believe it is wrong because I believe that God made everything "clean" when Jesus completed the Old Covenant and instituted the New. Because of this, for me (I believe) eating pork is not sin. Now, it would be sinful for me to put pork in a dish I serve them without them knowing, or to cause them to doubt their belief and eat while still believing it is a sin. So, in that way, we can determine what is sinful for each of us to do. But it is also clear that there are some things that are sin for everyone: sexual immorality, murder, theft, coveting, lust, lying, etc.

But as Paul wrote, even if we work miracles, and do wonders, and speak with the tongues of angels, and do mighty things, if we don't do it in love then it is meaningless and has no value of good for our soul. But even if we do small, seemingly insignificant things in love, these have great and mighty value for our soul.

 

[Oneofhope]

I think that Ecclesiastes is a powerful book (although I will admit that I spend very little time studying it) that was authored by God (it is Scripture). I don't think that we should totally disregard it, but I agree that Solomon was in a funk when he said these things.

There are messages to be gleaned from Ecclesiastes, but they are few. Furthermore, to draw these messages from that body of depressing work, one must understand the core contexts of the Bible. They are:

1) The Power of God
2) The Purpose of Christ
3) The Work of Christ
4) The Effect of Christ

Solomon saw very little of these four contexts above, for his life was full of abundance. He had no enemies, no battles, was very wealthy, 1000 wives and concubines to occupy his obvious addiction to sex. Though God appeared to Solomon twice, and though the Bible tells us that God loved him, there is no evidence that he was being "led" by the Holy Spirit. Did he possess Wisdom? Sure, he knew a lot about birds and all kinds of other weird things, but how much did he write about Righteousness, Purity, and Holiness?

Solomon would fall astray and begin supporting child sacrifice . . . which is right up there with the worst possible things a person could do, second to family cannibalism, which Israel also falls victim to. At any rate, the works of Solomon are good for study, but only if we understand those four primary contexts listed above. Otherwise, Solomon is not the best Biblical example to follow. In fact, I find nothing about him to be edifying, but only discouraging, frustrating, and perplexing.

Solomon fulfills a purpose, and it relates to the Davidic Covenant. Solomon proves that the Promises of God stand firm, even though he begins to worship Chemosh and other like false gods. Though Solomon horrifically disobeyed and showed no Fear of the Lord, God kept His Promises. This is the redeeming factor of Sololmon's life and works, but Solomon himself turned out to be utterly disgusting and horrific.

 

[Oneofhope]

There are messages to be gleaned from Ecclesiastes, but they are few. Furthermore, to draw these messages from that body of depressing work, one must understand the core contexts of the Bible. They are:

1) The Power of God
2) The Purpose of Christ
3) The Work of Christ
4) The Effect of Christ

Solomon saw very little of these four contexts above, for his life was full of abundance. He had no enemies, no battles, was very wealthy, 1000 wives and concubines to occupy his obvious addiction to sex. Though God appeared to Solomon twice, and though the Bible tells us that God loved him, there is no evidence that he was being "led" by the Holy Spirit. Solomon did not struggle nor suffer, thus he was not compelled to turn to and lean upon the Lord as did his remarkable father, David. Did he possess Wisdom? Sure, he knew a lot about birds and all kinds of other weird things, but how much did he write about Righteousness, Purity, and Holiness?

Solomon would fall astray and begin supporting child sacrifice . . . which is right up there with the worst possible things a person could do, second to family cannibalism, which Israel also falls victim to. At any rate, the works of Solomon are good for study, but only if we understand those four primary contexts listed above. Otherwise, Solomon is not the best Biblical example to follow. In fact, I find nothing about him to be edifying, but only discouraging, frustrating, and perplexing.

Solomon fulfills a purpose, and it relates to the Davidic Covenant. Solomon proves that the Promises of God stand firm, even though he begins to worship Chemosh and other like false gods. Though Solomon horrifically disobeyed and showed no Fear of the Lord, God kept His Promises. This is the redeeming factor of Sololmon's life and works, but Solomon himself turned out to be utterly disgusting and horrific.

 

[Doug Brents]

There are messages to be gleaned from Ecclesiastes, but they are few. Furthermore, to draw these messages from that body of depressing work, one must understand the core contexts of the Bible. They are:

1) The Power of God
2) The Purpose of Christ
3) The Work of Christ
4) The Effect of Christ

Solomon saw very little of these four contexts above, for his life was full of abundance. He had no enemies, no battles, was very wealthy, 1000 wives and concubines to occupy his obvious addiction to sex. Though God appeared to Solomon twice, and though the Bible tells us that God loved him, there is no evidence that he was being "led" by the Holy Spirit. Did he possess Wisdom? Sure, he knew a lot about birds and all kinds of other weird things, but how much did he write about Righteousness, Purity, and Holiness?

Solomon would fall astray and begin supporting child sacrifice . . . which is right up there with the worst possible things a person could do, second to family cannibalism, which Israel also falls victim to. At any rate, the works of Solomon are good for study, but only if we understand those four primary contexts listed above. Otherwise, Solomon is not the best Biblical example to follow. In fact, I find nothing about him to be edifying, but only discouraging, frustrating, and perplexing.

Solomon fulfills a purpose, and it relates to the Davidic Covenant. Solomon proves that the Promises of God stand firm, even though he begins to worship Chemosh and other like false gods. Though Solomon horrifically disobeyed and showed no Fear of the Lord, God kept His Promises. This is the redeeming factor of Sololmon's life and works, but Solomon himself turned out to be utterly disgusting and horrific.

There is no doubt about the evil into which Solomon fell, and also no doubt about the righteousness of God in keeping His promises (knowing that God knew of the depths to which Solomon would fall even before He made the promises to David).

But I do not doubt the Spirit's authorship of Ecclesiastes, nor the value that we can gain from reading and studying it (limited though that value is to me since I have studied very little of it). And I would add a couple of things to your list of contexts of the Bible. In the OT, the only context on your list that is in play is #1. The other three are only to be found in the NT. But I would add to the OT contexts:
1.1) The trustworthiness of God
1.2) The mercy/righteous judgement of God
1.3) The power and sovereignty of God
There may be more, but you get the idea.

 

[Oneofhope]

In the OT, the only context on your list that is in play is #1.

Interesting. I can't imagine anything being more opposite. When Paul quoted Genesis 1, you don't think that this was pointing to the Purpose, Work, and Effect of Christ?

2 Corinthians 4:6-7 NLT - "For God, who said, "Let there be light in the darkness," has made this light shine in our hearts so we could know the glory of God that is seen in the face of Jesus Christ. We now have this light shining in our hearts, but we ourselves are like fragile clay jars containing this great treasure. This makes it clear that our great power is from God, not from ourselves."

Genesis 1:3-4 NLT - "Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness."

This separation of Spiritual Darkness from the Spiritual Light of Christ is what Spiritual Circumcision is all about.

When you acknowledged that the Plan of Salvation has been hidden, the above is the first example of such. The Saving Plan of Christ is all throughout the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NLT - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations."

There is only one Faith, and the crystal clear Ezekiel text is a fantastic description of how we obtain it. This Scripture is so important that it is first covered almost identically in Ezekiel 11. We see it again in Deut 30:6 and many times in Jeremiah.

Furthermore, if we do not understand the Covenant of Circumcision established in the life of Abraham, we certainly won't acknowledge the Circumcision of Christ as delivered perfectly and clearly by the Apostle Paul.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

The "church" isn't familiar with Spiritual Circumcision because "pastors" avoid it like covid. We are not taught this core doctrine of the Bible, thus virtually every Christian remains blinded by the Veil that will not allow the Glory of the Lord to be reflected.

 

[Doug Brents]

Interesting. I can't imagine anything being more opposite. When Paul quoted Genesis 1, you don't think that this was pointing to the Purpose, Work, and Effect of Christ?

2 Corinthians 4:6-7 NLT - "For God, who said, "Let there be light in the darkness," has made this light shine in our hearts so we could know the glory of God that is seen in the face of Jesus Christ. We now have this light shining in our hearts, but we ourselves are like fragile clay jars containing this great treasure. This makes it clear that our great power is from God, not from ourselves."

Genesis 1:3-4 NLT - "Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness."

This separation of Spiritual Darkness from the Spiritual Light of Christ is what Spiritual Circumcision is all about.

When you acknowledged that the Plan of Salvation has been hidden, the above is the first example of such. The Saving Plan of Christ is all throughout the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NLT - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations."

There is only one Faith, and the crystal clear Ezekiel text is a fantastic description of how we obtain it. This Scripture is so important that it is first covered almost identically in Ezekiel 11. We see it again in Deut 30:6 and many times in Jeremiah.

Furthermore, if we do not understand the Covenant of Circumcision established in the life of Abraham, we certainly won't acknowledge the Circumcision of Christ as delivered perfectly and clearly by the Apostle Paul.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

The "church" isn't familiar with Spiritual Circumcision because "pastors" avoid it like covid. We are not taught this core doctrine of the Bible, thus virtually every Christian remains blinded by the Veil that will not allow the Glory of the Lord to be reflected.

Yes, the coming of the Christ is a major theme throughout the OT. But the Purpose, Work, and Effect of the Christ are not really seen until He comes in the Flesh. Yes, today we can look back and see the Christ in the OT, through the lens of the NT and the criticism that Christ gives the Pharisees, but He was not the obvious focus of much of the OT to those who lived before Him.

As to Spiritual circumcision, that has been one of the key points of what I have talked about in terms of salvation in this and other forums for years. It is absolutely the work of the Holy Spirit that cuts from us our sins and sinful nature (although we still live in a sinful world and are constantly bombarded by temptations and opportunities to sin) during baptism, and in turn He unites us with Christ, His death and resurrection, and makes us heirs with Christ of the promise that was made to Abraham of the Promised Land (Heaven).

Just as an aside: I do not like the NLT, or any of the "paraphrase" or even "word for thought" translations. I stick to the "word for word" translations: primarily the NASB and KJV. I try to use several of them to eliminate errors in translation even in them, and even then there are misunderstandings that have become pervasive (like the use of the Greek word baptizo transliterated into English as baptize instead of translating it correctly as "immerse").

 

[Oneofhope]

But the Purpose, Work, and Effect of the Christ are not really seen until He comes in the Flesh.

Right. And that's because very few were recipients of Christ's Work. Again, this is one reason why the Saving Plan of Christ had been kept hidden from the beginning. We are supposed to ask, seek and knock on the door of the Lord, asking questions like, "Why, if Jesus hadn't lived, died, and rose from the dead, would Abraham be our Father of Faith? Why are we to have the exact same Faith that Abraham had if Jesus hadn't existed yet?"

Jesus does not begin to freely Circumcise hearts, grant Repentance, and send the Holy Spirit until the Day of Pentecost. But we are to gather these bits of information throughout the Old Testament so that when it comes time for sharing the one, True Gospel with the lost, it will be a powerful testimony . . . and accurate.

When we read the below text, we are supposed to be thinking of Christ and the anticipated Day of Pentecost:

Genesis 3:22-23 NASB20 - "Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out with his hand, and take fruit also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- therefore the LORD God sent him out of the Garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken."

To reach out and eat from the Tree of Life is to receive the Circumcision of Christ, hence, the Purpose, Work, and Effect of Christ.

The NLT and KJV translations are my favorite, for they convey the exact same ideas. It is another dangerous practice to suggest that the NLT translation is not worthy to be used while discussing the Bible. If we are to reject the NLT, then without question, all commentaries should also be eliminated, for the NLT translation is infinitely more accurate than any commentary ever written. How do we know this? The NLT translation acknowledges Spiritual Circumcision while most commentators do not. They skip right past the "heart" of the Bible . . . nearly every time. And if we're going to reject the NLT, then we all should shut our mouths and stop talking about the Bible as well, for the NLT is again infinitely more accurate that anything that we might say. If we are to reject the NLT translation, then all of our individual thoughts and ideas on Biblical matters are also to be rejected.

 

[Doug Brents]

Right. And that's because very few were recipients of Christ's Work. Again, this is one reason why the Saving Plan of Christ had been kept hidden from the beginning. We are supposed to ask, seek and knock on the door of the Lord, asking questions like, "Why, if Jesus hadn't lived, died, and rose from the dead, would Abraham be our Father of Faith? Why are we to have the exact same Faith that Abraham had if Jesus hadn't existed yet?"

Jesus does not begin to freely Circumcise hearts, grant Repentance, and send the Holy Spirit until the Day of Pentecost. But we are to gather these bits of information throughout the Old Testament so that when it comes time for sharing the one, True Gospel with the lost, it will be a powerful testimony . . . and accurate.

When we read the below text, we are supposed to be thinking of Christ and the anticipated Day of Pentecost:

Genesis 3:22-23 NASB20 - "Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out with his hand, and take fruit also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- therefore the LORD God sent him out of the Garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken."

To reach out and eat from the Tree of Life is to receive the Circumcision of Christ, hence, the Purpose, Work, and Effect of Christ.

I can see where you are going, and I agree with you that the plan of salvation was hidden by God from creation until Christ. And then revealed slowly through Christ and the Apostles over the first century. I will say though that Jesus circumcised a few hearts during His life, as evidenced by the thief on the cross who was for sure saved (maybe the last soul saved under the Old Covenant).

The NLT and KJV translations are my favorite, for they convey the exact same ideas. It is another dangerous practice to suggest that the NLT translation is not worthy to be used while discussing the Bible. If we are to reject the NLT, then without question, all commentaries should also be eliminated, for the NLT translation is infinitely more accurate than any commentary ever written. How do we know this? The NLT translation acknowledges Spiritual Circumcision while most commentators do not. They skip right past the "heart" of the Bible . . . nearly every time. And if we're going to reject the NLT, then we all should shut our mouths and stop talking about the Bible as well, for the NLT is again infinitely more accurate that anything that we might say. If we are to reject the NLT translation, then all of our individual thoughts and ideas on Biblical matters are also to be rejected.

From the way you go on about the NLT, I would have to say it appears (forgive me if I am wrong) that you have made an idol of this translation. It is not the original text, and seeing as how it is past the "thought for thought" segment almost into the "paraphrase" segment of the chart below, it certainly contains translational errors created based on the bias of the translator(s). Any time someone tries to make the Word more clear, they inherently introduce their own bias into the discussion. Now, I don't doubt that it is easier to read. And I don't doubt that there are some really good things about it. But, for myself, I tend to stick to (and promote) using and cross-referencing several of the more "word for word" translations so that there are fewer of the "translator bias" type errors introduced into the translation.

 

[Oneofhope]

From the way you go on about the NLT, I would have to say it appears (forgive me if I am wrong) that you have made an idol of this translation.

I definitely forgive you, for you know not of what you say.

I do not partake in conversation that resorts to such immaturity and absurd judgments.

 

[Doug Brents]

I definitely forgive you, for you know not of what you say.

I do not partake in conversation that resorts to such immaturity and absurd judgments.

If I am wrong, then tell me how I am wrong, because it really appears that you have an idolatrous relationship with this one translation. I do not disagree with you that there is a lot of personal bias in all commentaries, but a translation of God's Word should not contain personal bias. However, as I said before, any time someone paraphrases or gives "word for thought" translation, it is their thoughts that leak in, not necessarily the thoughts that are in the Word of God.

Just look at this one example of the changes made that show translator bias.

Literal translation 21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I profess unto them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

New Living Translation 21 Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as 'Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven. 22 On judgment day many will tell me, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.' 23 But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized.'

The Word does not say that the deeds done by these people were "unauthorized". Scripture doesn't even mention the validity of the deeds. It says that the people were "workers of lawlessness". These were people who had never been saved, but thought they were, and so deceived themselves.

 

[Dan Perez]

I see the "New Covenant" as the same Holy Covenant given to Abraham, which is why we are to have the same Faith that Abraham had. After all, Abraham is our Father of Faith.

Romans 4:12 NLT - "And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."

Scripture shows us that God instilled Faith into Abraham all the way back in Genesis chapter 17 when He said:

Genesis 17:1 KJV - "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect."

The above represents the Circumcision of Christ, where Christ (who is God) seems to have Circumcised the Heart of Abraham and placed the Holy Edict to "Walk" before God and to be "Perfect." Of course, Abraham was not "perfect," but because of Spiritual Circumcision, he was viewed as perfect.

This is the exact same Covenant that was given also to the Gentiles, the Promise of a Circumcised Heart, so that a person would "live forever."

Galatians 3:13-14 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith."

You wrote , That of course Abraham WAS NOT PERFECT ,and if anyone checks the HEBREW TEXT , Gen 17:1 says he was PERFECT // TAMIM , and check STRONG'S CONCORDANCE , H 8549 and TAMIM means is in the SIGNULAR and is in the ABSOLUTE and ABSOLUTE is what it means .

dan p

 

[Oneofhope]

You wrote , That of course Abraham WAS NOT PERFECT ,and if anyone checks the HEBREW TEXT , Gen 17:1 says he was PERFECT // TAMIM , and check STRONG'S CONCORDANCE , H 8549 and TAMIM means is in the SIGNULAR and is in the ABSOLUTE and ABSOLUTE is what it means .

dan p

I have no idea of what you're talking about, specifically why you would write what you have written in response to what I offered above.

As far as being "perfect" - this is impossible while in human flesh. The Purpose of Christ is for Him to apply and grant His Spiritual Work upon our hearts [SO THAT] His Children will be [VIEWED] as perfect in the eyes of God His Father.

Ephesians 1:4 NLT - "Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes."

I would think that every Christian would know that Jesus being the one-time Sacrifice for all sin is what makes us viewed as perfect in the eyes of God. Humans will continue to sin, but Christs sacrifice is what pays the penalty for all sins, past, present, and future.

Just curious . . . what is the problem? Are you looking for an argument?

 

[Dan Perez]

I have no idea of what you're talking about, specifically why you would write what you have written in response to what I offered above.

As far as being "perfect" - this is impossible while in human flesh. The Purpose of Christ is for Him to apply and grant His Spiritual Work upon our hearts [SO THAT] His Children will be [VIEWED] as perfect in the eyes of God His Father.

Ephesians 1:4 NLT - "Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes."

I would think that every Christian would know that Jesus being the one-time Sacrifice for all sin is what makes us viewed as perfect in the eyes of God. Humans will continue to sin, but Christs sacrifice is what pays the penalty for all sins, past, present, and future.

Just curious . . . what is the problem? Are you looking for an argument?

I am just presenting what I have read in the bible , is all but there are some Christian web sites , that if anyone attacks anyone , that was OK .

In Phil 3:6 that the HOLY SPIRIT says that Paul was BLAMELESS // AMEMPTOS , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR

In Luke 1:6 we see that there were 2 that are called BLAMELESS //AMEMPTOS , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , and in the PLURAL


And in Eph 1:4 reads WITHOUT BLAME //AMOMOS in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE , also in the PLURAL .


They were all BLAMELESS concerning the LAW OF MOSES !!

dan p

 

[Oneofhope]

I am just presenting what I have read in the bible , is all but there are some Christian web sites , that if anyone attacks anyone , that was OK .

In Phil 3:6 that the HOLY SPIRIT says that Paul was BLAMELESS // AMEMPTOS , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR

In Luke 1:6 we see that there were 2 that are called BLAMELESS //AMEMPTOS , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , and in the PLURAL


And in Eph 1:4 reads WITHOUT BLAME //AMOMOS in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE , also in the PLURAL .


They were all BLAMELESS concerning the LAW OF MOSES !!

dan p

Precisely. What I see from Scripture is that when a person is relieved of the Adamic Curse, they are then set apart from the Law of Moses (for the Blessed Jew) and Gentiles are also separated from worldly laws that condemn. When a person is set free from the Curse of the Lord and places their Faith into Christ and the Power that raised Him from the grave, they live according to the Effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life.

Romans 8:1-2 NKJV - "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."

 

[HIM]

Contrary to popular opinion, the NC isn't just as simple as saying," I believe," it's a process, as detailed in Romans 8

It starts out with," For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh." The law pointed out what was wrong, but that was just condemnation. Is that bad? Far from it! But the condemnation brought along punishment without salvation.

Jesus then came down to condemn the sin just to the flesh, "thus condemned sin in the flesh."

Now it is those who walk by the flesh that are condemned in the flesh while those who walk in the Spirit are spared," so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

Keeping with the Spirit is a process, not a one time deal, "Since we live by the Spirit, let us walk in step with the Spirit," Galatians 5.

So you not only have to say you believe, but you also must keep in step with the Spirit.

This is why," As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." James 2

Nice post friend. Can we say life rather than process though? Since we are dead yet live. But not us but Christ lives in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live Through the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. In this we receive the Spirt of God. By the hearing, the attentive listening of the faith of the Son of God. Ministering the Spirit and working of miracles by the hearing, the attentive listening to the faith of the son of God in which we live. For we are all God's children through THE FAITH IN Christ. For we whom have been Baptized have PUT ON CHRIST. We are all one in Christ. Christ in us, we in Him that the world might believe. Gal 2:20, 3:2,5,26-28

 

[Oneofhope]

Nice post friend. Can we say life rather than process though? Since we are dead yet live. But not us but Christ lives in us. And the live we now live in the flesh we live Through the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. In this we receive the Spirt of God. By the hearing, the attentive listening of the faith of the Son of God. Ministering the Spirit and working of miracles by the hearing, the attentive listening to the faith of the son of God in which we live. For we are all God's children through THE FAITH IN Christ. For we whom have been Baptized have PUT ON CHRIST. We are all one in Christ. Christ in us, we in Him that the world might believe. Gal 2:20, 3:2,5,26-28

Are you sure that you are dead? Physically, you're not dead, so what is left? Your spirit? As for me, there is nothing "dead" about me, for Christ made me alive when He granted His Spiritual Circumcision. This is what begins a Spiritual Transformation in a person.

Question: Have you receive the Circumcision of Christ?

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

 

[HIM]

Are you sure that you are dead? Physically, you're not dead, so what is left? Your spirit? As for me, there is nothing "dead" about me, for Christ made me alive when He granted His Spiritual Circumcision. This is what begins a Spiritual Transformation in a person.

Question: Have you receive the Circumcision of Christ?

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

Galatians not Colossians. I love Colossians, but that is a different context. Please read the post you responded to again, thanks.

 

[Oneofhope]

Galatians not Colossians. I love Colossians, but that is a different context. Please read the post you responded to again, thanks.

I re-read your post and I guess I don't understand your teachings. Just trying to help, as no one who is an actual Child of God is dead. That would defeat the Purpose, Work , and Effect of Christ. These "things" are the foundation of the New Covenant, the same Covenant established in Abraham, our Father of Faith

 

[HIM]

I re-read your post and I guess I don't understand your teachings. Just trying to help, as no one who is an actual Child of God is dead. That would defeat the Purpose, Work , and Effect of Christ. These "things" are the foundation of the New Covenant, the same Covenant established in Abraham, our Father of Faith

Read the verses from Galatians cited below in the original post you responded to.