How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[Non sequitur]

My religion encourages it. Which one of us will repent first?

I've got 5 on Don't Pass.

 

[selfinflikted]

is having unmarried sex more important then eternity in hell ?

More importantly, why would god - creator of all that is, most powerful being in existence EVER, knower of all things past, present, and future - care?

 

[Paul 5]

How, exactly, does god taking the form of a man and "suffering terribly" give man a way to escape god's wrath? Couldn't he have just skipped the bloody part and simply forgive.. you know, the way normal people do?

It is obvious from the bible that the only way man could and can escape destruction is through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. WHY that it is that way is hard for us humans to grasp,I don't think we really can. I am convinced that God is so good that if we were actually in His presense we could not stand it,and that satan is so evil that if we were in his presense it would be so horrible we could not stand it. At my salvation experience God actually talked to me,it just seemed that love dripped off each word,God really is love,why hell?,I don't really understand, but God told me before I was saved that in my present condition that was where I was headed but that I could be saved by commiting my life to God and accepting Jesus as my Saviour. So I did and received the indwelling Holy Spirit. As a christian,at times you can experience such intense love from God that it is overwhelming,this is not all the time,but it does happen. There is nothing like it in this world,I suppose when someone falls in love it is a little like the way God can pour out love on one of His children.

 

[selfinflikted]

What does god's voice sound like?

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

What does god's voice sound like?

A lot like Bill Cosby.

‪Bill Cosby - Noah‬‏ - YouTube

 

[Ar Cosc]

Do you want me to say something like "ok, you can go to Hell, then"?

Or do you want dialog of some kind? If you don't care to take seriously that all good things come from the author of our lives and that we have rejected Him and become traitors but He is willing to forgive us so we can start over and enjoy His goodness for eternity -- isn't it a bit of a distraction to go on about other religions, how to know for sure, etc., etc.?

If someone's heart is all that hardened about the idea that we are sinners who excluded ourselves from God's goodness, and that God is patiently waiting and calling us to start over, in His mercy, what basis is there for further dialog, really? You tell me. No point going on about other religions, questions of doubts or evidence, if you insist on having such a perversely hardened heart.

Are you going to repent of such foolishness? The offer is on the table.

My heart is no more hardened towards christianity that yours is towards Islam or Hinduism, two religions with an equal amount of valid evidence of their authenticity as christianity. You're not rejecting Vishnu's offer of a favourable reincarnation, you just don't believe Vishnu exists. This is the same way I feel about christianity.

I AM terrified of God , but knowing I am following HIS ways , and HIS Son's teachings makes me a lot less terrified . is having unmarried sex more important then eternity in hell ?

It's the fact that God would supposedly send someone to hell for something so arbitrary that would terrify me. Making mistakes, and succumbing to the sinful nature (which he created us with) in the course of our time on earth couldn't possibly merit an eternity of punishment. You're putting God on the same level as someone who thinks execution is an appropriate punishment for stealing a loaf of bread.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

It is obvious from the bible that the only way man could and can escape destruction is through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. WHY that it is that way is hard for us humans to grasp,I don't think we really can. I am convinced that God is so good that if we were actually in His presense we could not stand it,and that satan is so evil that if we were in his presense it would be so horrible we could not stand it. At my salvation experience God actually talked to me,it just seemed that love dripped off each word,God really is love,why hell?,I don't really understand, but God told me before I was saved that in my present condition that was where I was headed but that I could be saved by commiting my life to God and accepting Jesus as my Saviour. So I did and received the indwelling Holy Spirit. As a christian,at times you can experience such intense love from God that it is overwhelming,this is not all the time,but it does happen. There is nothing like it in this world,I suppose when someone falls in love it is a little like the way God can pour out love on one of His children.

Why do you think god showed such an interest in you, but not to the fifty billion children who died before the age of consent?

 

[docpotter]

Why would he care ? He tells us in the bible bro , heaven is not for the sexually immoral , he does care big time, tjhats why he has told us what is expected of us, what to do and what not to do . You either live for yourself ( money , sex, ego, act intelligent , try and impress your neighbors ) or you live for God, the author of life .

 

[Non sequitur]

It is obvious from the bible that the only way man could and can escape destruction is through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. WHY that it is that way is hard for us humans to grasp,I don't think we really can. I am convinced that God is so good that if we were actually in His presense we could not stand it,and that satan is so evil that if we were in his presense it would be so horrible we could not stand it. At my salvation experience God actually talked to me,it just seemed that love dripped off each word,God really is love,why hell?,I don't really understand, but God told me before I was saved that in my present condition that was where I was headed but that I could be saved by commiting my life to God and accepting Jesus as my Saviour. So I did and received the indwelling Holy Spirit. As a christian,at times you can experience such intense love from God that it is overwhelming,this is not all the time,but it does happen. There is nothing like it in this world,I suppose when someone falls in love it is a little like the way God can pour out love on one of His children.

I'm seeing a lot of contradictions.

Did I get this wrong?

 

[Nomarga]

Do you want me to say something like "ok, you can go to Hell, then"?

That would be quite nice - I've heard interesting things about this Hell and an invitation would be lovely!

Or do you want dialog of some kind?

That depends. Can you negotiate on behalf of this deity? But what to ask for? Ah, perhaps something a bit supernatural.

Alright, ask your deity to bring back my dead father - clothes and all (you don't really want to see your own dad naked right? I've heard it did terrible things for Ham and his descendants. /shudder) - and I'll seriously consider your offers. Shouldn't be hard for the creator of the universe right?

If someone's heart is all that hardened about the idea that we are sinners who excluded ourselves from God's goodness, and that God is patiently waiting and calling us to start over, in His mercy, what basis is there for further dialog, really? You tell me. No point going on about other religions, questions of doubts or evidence, if you insist on having such a perversely hardened heart.

Hardened heart? I most certainly have no such thing, as my cardiologist would tell you (a bit of plaque, but certainly no hardening)!

As a recent convert to Wayne-ism (very recent) I am simply wondering what it is you can offer that He hasn't already offered me? From comparisons of our posts, it seems like I received the exact same offer. I'm no professional negotiator, but I'll need a little more convincing than offering me something He already does (the above deal still stands, but if resurrection is a bit messy I'll also accept "The Wayne is a false god" written in the stars or perhaps a Snickers bar. It's been a while since I've had a Snickers.).

Are you going to repent of such foolishness? The offer is on the table.

Now, now. Don't be getting all uppity in the middle of negotiations! If you (and subsequently your deity) are able to come through for me, this could be quite the deal! Don't blow it now!

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Why would he care ? He tells us in the bible bro , heaven is not for the sexually immoral , he does care big time, tjhats why he has told us what is expected of us, what to do and what not to do . You either live for yourself ( money , sex, ego, act intelligent , try and impress your neighbors ) or you live for God, the author of life .

So, everything you do in life has nothing whatsoever to do with money, sex, ego, intelligence, or impressing your neighbors?

 

[docpotter]

God will never , ever show you a miracle on demand . He doesn't have to , even little children can look around and see he made the earth . " A fool in his heart says there is no God" . BUT when you have faith and live right ( not like a skeptical douche ) and read the bible, and give God thanks for MAKING YOU , he does indeed show his children many , many, many miracles. : )

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

God will never , ever show you a miracle on demand . He doesn't have to , even little children can look around and see he made the earth . " A fool in his heart says there is no God" . BUT when you have faith and live right ( not like a skeptical douche ) and read the bible, and give God thanks for MAKING YOU , he does indeed show his children many , many, many miracles. : )

Name one miracle god has shown you.

BTW, what am I if I live right, but don't have faith, a skeptic, or a douche?

 

[Ar Cosc]

Why would he care ? He tells us in the bible bro , heaven is not for the sexually immoral , he does care big time, tjhats why he has told us what is expected of us, what to do and what not to do . You either live for yourself ( money , sex, ego, act intelligent , try and impress your neighbors ) or you live for God, the author of life .

But why should we believe that this set of arbitrary commands is the one we should be following? Why not the arbitrary commands of Shintoism, or Wicca? Or none at all.

 

[docpotter]

I try my best not too , no . Money is needed , but it is in no way my goal on earth to be rich . It used to be . Ego is hard , but I am working on it , getting better every day . Realizing how dumb I was, made me a lot more intelligent , but Gods wisdim is what IO crave , I have 2 College degrees, they are worthless, what I learned in college was mans trivia , mainly useless to me . I could care less what my neighbors think of me , so long as they know im an upright Christian who always has a cup of sugar to borrow : )

 

[ToBeInChrist]

How do I know that I've often and persistently chosen to neglect the ways of life and goodness, that I've been ungrateful of the good things I've been given? ... Do you claim not to know this about yourself?

How do I know that humanity has messed up and become perverse? ... Do you claim not to know this about humanity?

How do I know that there are good things in life, in experience, in consciousness, in my appreciation that some things are better than others? ... Do you claim not to know these good things?

How do I know that I am fickle in my commitment, my tendencies, towards good things? ... Do you claim to be consistently oriented to what is good, to life in all its beauty?

How do I know that if it were up to me on my own merits by my own heart's inclination I would waver and take what is worse instead of what is best, and in the course of eternity fail to find eternal goodness? ... Do you claim to be sufficiently better?

How do I know that I do not deserve eternal bliss? ... Do you think you are owed eternal bliss?

My heart is no more hardened towards christianity that yours is towards Islam or Hinduism

There are some excellent books on evidence from early Christian times. The earliest materials we have on Christianity, from Christians themselves, are within a few decades of the time of Christ's life, death, and resurrection.

Islam and Hinduism are not at all equal. The documents about Mohammad or about early Hindu history are separated from the times of the original writers by many centuries, for starters. Also, the quality of the material is far inferior to the quality of the Biblical texts. Neither Islam nor Hinduism claims or provides such evidence as the New Testament provides.

If you are interested in this you might want to read "The Case for the Resurrection" or "The Case for the Real Jesus" by Lee Strobel.

Making mistakes, and succumbing to the sinful nature (which he created us with) in the course of our time on earth couldn't possibly merit an eternity of punishment. You're putting God on the same level as someone who thinks execution is an appropriate punishment for stealing a loaf of bread.

You seriously underestimate the nature of our mistakes and the gravity of our sins.

To sin is to rebel against the source of all good things, to choose alienation from goodness. To then demand good things and good states of mind, etc., as if it were a right, when we commit treason against the source of all goodness is not reasonable nor an honest emotional reaction.

We choose to go against our conscience and to be ungrateful. We choose to worship material things, worldly pursuits, and the approval of other human beings, instead of worshiping God. We choose the company of demons instead of the company of God. God is the author of all good things, but we wilfully rebel and choose our own way which is not good -- given the nature of our situation, we cannot expect and demand good things from God.

God has mercifully extended an offer to have it all forgotten so we can start over, and He did not owe us this offer.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

How do I know that I've often and persistently chosen to neglect the ways of life and goodness, that I've been ungrateful of the good things I've been given? ... Do you claim not to know this about yourself?

How do I know that humanity has messed up and become perverse? ... Do you claim not to know this about humanity?

How do I know that there are good things in life, in experience, in consciousness, in my appreciation that some things are better than others? ... Do you claim not to know these good things?

How do I know that I am fickle in my commitment, my tendencies, towards good things? ... Do you claim to be consistently oriented to what is good, to life in all its beauty?

How do I know that if it were up to me on my own merits by my own heart's inclination I would waver and take what is worse instead of what is best, and in the course of eternity fail to find eternal goodness? ... Do you claim to be sufficiently better?

How do I know that I do not deserve eternal bliss? ... Do you think you are owed eternal bliss?




There are some excellent books on evidence from early Christian times. The earliest materials we have on Christianity, from Christians themselves, are within a few decades of the time of Christ's life, death, and resurrection.

Islam and Hinduism are not at all equal. The documents about Mohammad or about early Hindu history are separated from the times of the original writers by many centuries, for starters. Also, the quality of the material is far inferior to the quality of the Biblical texts. Neither Islam nor Hinduism claims or provides such evidence as the New Testament provides.

If you are interested in this you might want to read "The Case for the Resurrection" or "The Case for the Real Jesus" by Lee Strobel.



You seriously underestimate the nature of our mistakes and the gravity of our sins.

To sin is to rebel against the source of all good things, to choose alienation from goodness. To then demand good things and good states of mind, etc., as if it were a right, when we commit treason against the source of all goodness is not reasonable nor an honest emotional reaction.

We choose to go against our conscience and to be ungrateful. We choose to worship material things, worldly pursuits, and the approval of other human beings, instead of worshiping God. We choose the company of demons instead of the company of God. God is the author of all good things, but we wilfully rebel and choose our own way which is not good -- given the nature of our situation, we cannot expect and demand good things from God.

God has mercifully extended an offer to have it all forgotten so we can start over, and He did not owe us this offer.

I've read Lee Strobel. His arguments are nothing more than appeal to authority and incredulity. I was not impressed - and I read them when I was a Christian.

 

[docpotter]

" Why would he care ? He tells us in the bible bro , heaven is not for the sexually immoral , he does care big time, tjhats why he has told us what is expected of us, what to do and what not to do . You either live for yourself ( money , sex, ego, act intelligent , try and impress your neighbors ) or you live for God, the author of life ."

Good question . personally , I believe in Jesus. If you look at ALL the facts, dates , testamonies given etc. It just all adds up man . Check out Chuck Missler on you tube . He is maybe the smartest man alive , quantum physics master . He is a Christian too . He has some excellent cases for the truth of Jesus. But to me , its quite simple. If he didn't walk on water , heal the blind, lame , leapers, and RISE from the dead , we wouldn't be talking about him. Also the year is 2011 A.D. that means since Christ . He was what he said he was. Once you accept that , and look at things from that point of view , everything makes a lot of sense. It has changed my life big time , for the better : )

 

[Non sequitur]

God has mercifully extended an offer to have it all forgotten so we can start over, and He did not owe us this offer.

He kinda got us in this pickle, though.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

" Why would he care ? He tells us in the bible bro , heaven is not for the sexually immoral , he does care big time, tjhats why he has told us what is expected of us, what to do and what not to do . You either live for yourself ( money , sex, ego, act intelligent , try and impress your neighbors ) or you live for God, the author of life ."

Good question . personally , I believe in Jesus. If you look at ALL the facts, dates , testamonies given etc. It just all adds up man . Check out Chuck Missler on you tube . He is maybe the smartest man alive , quantum physics master . He is a Christian too . He has some excellent cases for the truth of Jesus. But to me , its quite simple. If he didn't walk on water , heal the blind, lame , leapers, and RISE from the dead , we wouldn't be talking about him. Also the year is 2011 A.D. that means since Christ . He was what he said he was. Once you accept that , and look at things from that point of view , everything makes a lot of sense. It has changed my life big time , for the better : )

This Chuck Missler?

‪Peanut Butter, The Atheist's Nightmare!‬‏ - YouTube