How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[SonOfTheWest]

How, exactly, does god taking the form of a man and "suffering terribly" give man a way to escape god's wrath? Couldn't he have just skipped the bloody part and simply forgive.. you know, the way normal people do?

The part that stuck in my mouth is that Jesus as God means that really..what happened was he went on a 33 year vacation that kinda sucked. But when you are God..well that's superfluous. My issue with classic Christianity and why I think it'll will die out eventually in lue of universalistic Christianity is that it is ultimately an idea predicated on salvation due to nothing but complicity and punishment due to thoughtcrime.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Actually it is much worse than that,God allows human kind that has not accepted Jesus as Saviour to enter a place of eternal torment...much worse than anything in this world. How do you put the two together? The God of love and the God of wrath against evil? God took the form of a man and suffered terribly in order to give man a way of escape from the wrath of God...people better take the offer while it is still on the table.

God supposedly suffered terribly for a short period of time. That in no way justifies sending billions to eternal torment. Frenchy used the analogy of a Mafia boss. He can put himself in harm's way to save his favourite people, but that doesn't excuse him from the fact that he still has people killed. Infinite torture is not justified for finite crimes. Especially such "crimes" as making an honest mistake, and picking the wrong religion.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

How, exactly, does god taking the form of a man and "suffering terribly" give man a way to escape god's wrath? Couldn't he have just skipped the bloody part and simply forgive.. you know, the way normal people do?

Sacrifice! There's always got to be a sacrifice, human preferably!

 

[selfinflikted]

Sacrifice! There's always got to be a sacrifice, human preferably!

How does such a sacrifice accomplish that since god sacrificed himself..but he's god..so no real loss..

 

[ToBeInChrist]

The issue is that existence itself, consciousness, life, all good things, were created by God. Only in God can we receive and appreciate good things.

But we decide to go our own way, to tell God to leave us alone, we disregard what He tells us in our conscience, we are extremely ungrateful for the many good things He gives us, and we make company with spiritual beings who also reject God's guidance, that is, we make demons our companions.

If you really want to be left to your self, if you insist that you really don't want God's good things, and you persist in such foolishness, there are consequences -- and you can already tell by many things you dislike in our world that the consequences of friendship with sin, rebellion, and demons, is horrible. But you cannot provide yourself with any of the good things that come from God which you take for granted. And your sense of outrage which indicates an ability to discern better from worse, which ought to be directed towards faithful adherence to God's ways, will never be satisfied with Godless ways and the eternal company of unredeamed sinners and demons.

If you insist on demanding to have God's goodness and also to have your sinful ways, your rebellion, that just isn't going to work out well for you.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

...all good things, were created by God.


*Snipped your preaching*

How do you know?

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

How does such a sacrifice accomplish that since god sacrificed himself..but he's god..so no real loss..

Yeah, but for thirty three years he wasn't, did you forget that? He even petitioned god (himself) for this "cup to pass."

 

[Ar Cosc]

The issue is that existence itself, consciousness, life, all good things, were created by God. Only in God can we receive and appreciate good things.

But we decide to go our own way, to tell God to leave us alone, we disregard what He tells us in our conscience, we are extremely ungrateful for the many good things He gives us, and we make company with spiritual beings who also reject God's guidance, that is, we make demons our companions.

If you really want to be left to your self, if you insist that you really don't want God's good things, and you persist in such foolishness, there are consequences -- and you can already tell by many things you dislike in our world that the consequences of friendship with sin, rebellion, and demons, is horrible. But you cannot provide yourself with any of the good things that come from God which you take for granted. And your sense of outrage which indicates an ability to discern better from worse, which ought to be directed towards faithful adherence to God's ways, will never be satisfied with Godless ways and the eternal company of unredeamed sinners and demons.

If you insist on demanding to have God's goodness and also to have your sinful ways, your rebellion, that just isn't going to work out well for you.

This would make a lot more sense if there was any sort of correlation between christianity and prosperity, but instead, some of the most devout countries in the world are also the poorest, and Western Europe, which has the highest quality of life, particularly Scandinavia, is one of the least religious collections of societies on the planet.

And of course, I still see no evidence that your God exists. Do you cover your hair and refrain from alcohol, just in case you're rebelling against Allah? Do you refrain from eating beef because it might anger various Hindu deities?

 

[selfinflikted]

Yeah, but for thirty three years he wasn't, did you forget that? He even petitioned god (himself) for this "cup to pass."

On snap! Silly me...

 

[Nomarga]

The issue is that existence itself, consciousness, life, all good things, were created by God. Only in God can we receive and appreciate good things.

But we decide to go our own way, to tell God to leave us alone, we disregard what He tells us in our conscience, we are extremely ungrateful for the many good things He gives us, and we make company with spiritual beings who also reject God's guidance, that is, we make demons our companions.

If you really want to be left to your self, if you insist that you really don't want God's good things, and you persist in such foolishness, there are consequences -- and you can already tell by many things you dislike in our world that the consequences of friendship with sin, rebellion, and demons, is horrible. But you cannot provide yourself with any of the good things that come from God which you take for granted. And your sense of outrage which indicates an ability to discern better from worse, which ought to be directed towards faithful adherence to God's ways, will never be satisfied with Godless ways and the eternal company of unredeamed sinners and demons.

If you insist on demanding to have God's goodness and also to have your sinful ways, your rebellion, that just isn't going to work out well for you.

The issue is that existence itself, consciousness, life, all good things, were created by Batman. Only in Batman can we receive and appreciate good things.

But we decide to go our own way, to tell Batman to leave us alone, we disregard what He tells us in our conscience, we are extremely ungrateful for the many good things He gives us, and we make company with spiritual beings who also reject Batman's guidance, that is, we make psychopathic criminals our companions.

If you really want to be left to your self, if you insist that you really don't want Batman's good things, and you persist in such foolishness, there are consequences -- and you can already tell by many things you dislike in our world that the consequences of friendship with sin, rebellion, and psychopathic criminals, is horrible. But you cannot provide yourself with any of the good things that come from Batman which you take for granted. And your sense of outrage which indicates an ability to discern better from worse, which ought to be directed towards faithful adherence to Batman's ways, will never be satisfied with Wayne-less ways and the eternal company of unredeamed sinners and psychopathic criminals.

If you insist on demanding to have Batman's goodness and also to have your sinful ways, your rebellion, that just isn't going to work out well for you.

 

[Simply_Amazing]

Unfortunately, I think this is against the rules. (editing someone's quoted post) You should create a separate post below the quoted one with the appropriate amendments or you'll get mod all over you.

That being said I think he's been thoroughly trounced.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

I hope he understands the irony of this.

 

[Nomarga]

Unfortunately, I think this is against the rules. (editing someone's quoted post) You should create a separate post below the quoted one with the appropriate amendments or you'll get mod all over you.

That being said I think he's been thoroughly trounced.

Ah! Thank you for the heads up!

 

[ToBeInChrist]

Do you want me to say something like "ok, you can go to Hell, then"?

Or do you want dialog of some kind? If you don't care to take seriously that all good things come from the author of our lives and that we have rejected Him and become traitors but He is willing to forgive us so we can start over and enjoy His goodness for eternity -- isn't it a bit of a distraction to go on about other religions, how to know for sure, etc., etc.?

If someone's heart is all that hardened about the idea that we are sinners who excluded ourselves from God's goodness, and that God is patiently waiting and calling us to start over, in His mercy, what basis is there for further dialog, really? You tell me. No point going on about other religions, questions of doubts or evidence, if you insist on having such a perversely hardened heart.

Are you going to repent of such foolishness? The offer is on the table.

 

[docpotter]

" I would be terrified by ultimate power being wielded by an entity that supposedly thinks your choice of consensual sexual partner can mean you're worthy of dead. "

I AM terrified of God , but knowing I am following HIS ways , and HIS Son's teachings makes me a lot less terrified . is having unmarried sex more important then eternity in hell ?

 

[Simply_Amazing]

Are you going to repent of such foolishness? The offer is on the table.

Are you?

I think he makes a very valid point. Will you repent and join the caped crusader?

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Do you want me to say something like "ok, you can go to Hell, then"?

Or do you want dialog of some kind? If you don't care to take seriously that all good things come from the author of our lives and that we have rejected Him and become traitors but He is willing to forgive us so we can start over and enjoy His goodness for eternity -- isn't it a bit of a distraction to go on about other religions, how to know for sure, etc., etc.?

If someone's heart is all that hardened about the idea that we are sinners who excluded ourselves from God's goodness, and that God is patiently waiting and calling us to start over, in His mercy, what basis is there for further dialog, really? You tell me. No point going on about other religions, questions of doubts or evidence, if you insist on having such a perversely hardened heart.

Are you going to repent of such foolishness? The offer is on the table.

Yeah, you keep saying this, but how do you know?

 

[Simply_Amazing]

I AM terrified of God , but knowing I am following HIS ways , and HIS Son's teachings makes me a lot less terrified . is having unmarried sex more important then eternity in hell ?

My religion encourages it. Which one of us will repent first?

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

" I would be terrified by ultimate power being wielded by an entity that supposedly thinks your choice of consensual sexual partner can mean you're worthy of dead. "

I AM terrified of God , but knowing I am following HIS ways , and HIS Son's teachings makes me a lot less terrified . is having unmarried sex more important then eternity in hell ?

Having any kind of sex is more important "then [sic] eternity in hell."

 

[Non sequitur]

...all good things, were created by God.


*Snipped your preaching*

How do you know?

I do that too, when reading.

"Let me tell you about how things really are. In my last life, I was an sunbeam and..."

*snip*