How one is saved.....

[Danthemailman]

Read my posts 191 193 194 You will see the contradictions in Danthemailman's unbiblical man made doctrine from the baptist creed books and manuals.

Who are you talking to?

I wanted to believe that you were searching for truth.

I already found the truth several years ago after searching for it.

I've lost all confidence in you. I now believe you would rather believe a lie than turn from error and follow the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm really discouraged with you Danthemailman. I was hoping you would be a man of integrity. Your not dead yet. God is still giving you opportunity to repent and obey His gospel. I hope whatever stumbling block is in your way will be removed. Your heart will only become harder the longer you resist the Lords invitation. What is it? Money? Pride? Loved ones?

No need to be so condescending and your psychological games will not work on me. I already repented and obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16) several years ago. It's a shame that human pride will not allow you to do the same. Your hands are full of your works and you will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

My position is that the Bible teaches we are saved by Grace (Gods works) + Obedient Faith (Romans 16:26 but now made manifest and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith.)

Regardless of whether you refer to these works as God's works or your works you are still teaching salvation by works. My position is that we are saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) "Obedience to the faith" does not mean we are saved by faith + multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow." I already thoroughly explained this in post #122. See below:

In regards to Romans 1:5; 16:26, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.

I am ready to debate on Your doctrines of receiving Holy Spirit baptism the instant you Believe in Christ.

Campbellites are throughly confused when it comes to Holy Spirit baptism. They come up with all kinds of ludicrous arguments in an effort to explain away Acts 10:43-47, but the most ludicrous argument of all is when they use Balaam's donkey.

Also Your sects doctrine of water baptism as only a picture or symbolism of already being saved.

Salvation is signified, but not procured in the waters of baptism. A wedding is a good analogy for this. A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this. Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents. "With this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.

Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.

There are commandments given by God that we are COMMANDED TO KEEP. Yes this is Biblical new testament teaching. But just because God requires us to OBEY His law (Christ's law) does not mean it is meritorious by our obedience. Here is the the obvious reason why.

If keeping God's commandments "after" we believe in Christ unto salvation is the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, then doing so is meritorious towards receiving eternal life because such obedience/works stand between us and heaven and we are not saved by works. In Galatians 6:2, we read - Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Are we to bear one another's burdens in order to become saved or because we are saved? It's a rhetorical question.

Salvation cannot be obtained without Jesus' shed blood on the cross. Man has sinned. No amount of obedience can cover those sins. Therefore God requires us to obey His commandments. And if we do not. He will not save us. But if we do keep His commandments, He, not our works of obedience will still be the only source of power to remit our sins.

Your argument is full of contradictions. No amount of obedience can cover our sins, yet we are still saved by works of obedience? All you are doing is cherry picking which works of obedience you feel are necessary to accomplish in order to obtain salvation and save yourself, then claim there is no merit in that, which is an oxymoron. Roman Catholics make the same argument, yet their "check list of works" is a bit different than yours.

God requires obedience to Him, so that He will save us. But no amount of obedient works to His commandments save ourselves. Obedience to God saves by God saving us. Not because our obedience alone saves us. It's that simple.

It's that simple huh? You may find your gospel of works salvation simple, yet I find it complicated and contradictory.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the gift from God, not of works (meritorious) lest anyone should boast.

Any works which "follow" saving faith in Christ which would be the basis or means by which we obtain salvation would be meritorious. Paul does not teach saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. That is all just Campbellite smoke and mirrors.

 

[Danthemailman]

To be saved everyone is required to obey all of His commandments. These commandments can be obeyed. It is not about becoming perfect and keeping His law (law of Christ) perfectly to be saved. That would defeat the purpose of needing a Savior.

Primary obedience to His gospel is something all can accomplish without sinless perfection.

Hear, Faith, repentance, confession, water baptism.

So obey all of His commandments in order to be saved, but you won't obey them perfectly. The funny thing is, even according to your mixed up gospel, I'm still saved. I have already heard, repented, placed my faith in Christ for salvation and afterwards received water baptism.

After salvation continue walking in the light. When we sin against God by breaking his law (new will and testament of Christ, Galatians 6:2) We ask for forgiveness through prayer, 1 John 1:9.

Here is where your gospel gets complicated. In 1 John 1:6, we read - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. *Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. *Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11, we read - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness" and "hates his brother" is connected with "children of the devil."

In regards to 1 John 1:9, notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.

Stay walking in the light as He is in the light.

Either we walk in the light or else we don't. Stay walking implies pull yourself up by your own boot straps and keep yourself saved (type 2 works salvation). That is self preservation rather than God's preservation. (Psalms 37:28)

And as Revelation 2:10 says
...Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of life.

If this verse teaches that we must be "faithful enough" in addition to placing our faith in Christ for salvation (as you seem to be implying) then just "how faithful would you have to be?" Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include ANY number of good works. This verse is meant to be an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. Jesus was not telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" in addition to having faith in Him that they will not receive eternal life. That is salvation by works! The Lord was telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death. (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9) Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are not faithful.

Jesus' gospel is logical, does not contradict itself like the doctrines of Sola Fide.

Jesus' gospel is logical and does not contradict itself like the doctrines of Campbellism.

 

[Titus Dorn]

Jesus' gospel is logical and does not contradict itself like the doctrines of Campbellism.

Jesus' gospel is not from uninspired men like Martin Luther and his gospel of Faith Alone. And John Smyth the founder of the Baptist sectarian church in the 1600's. Jesus' gospel is also not from uninspired men who obeyed Jesus' gospel like Alexander Campbell and taught His gospel to others. If I took Jesus' gospel and taught it to aborigines in Australia. It would not be my gospel for I have no gospel of my own.

I have already proven Alexander Campbell did not establish the church of Christ in America. For you to ignore these historical facts now that you are educated of these facts. Yet still make these false claims, makes you dishonest. It is a historical fact that John Smyth did establish his church in 1609, that he named the Baptist church. Named after John the baptist not after Jesus Christ. Obviously not the Lords church, Matthew 16:18-19; Romans 16:16.

To be saved everyone is required to obey all of His commandments. These commandments can be obeyed. It is not about becoming perfect and keeping His law(law of Christ) perfectly to be saved. That would defeat the purpose of needing a Savior.

Primary obedience to His gospel is something all can accomplish without sinless perfection.

Hear, Faith, repentance, confession, water baptism.

Danthemailman's response,

So obey all of His commandments in order to be saved, but you won't obey them perfectly. The funny thing is, even according to your mixed up gospel, I'm still saved. I have already heard, repented, placed my faith in Christ for salvation and afterwards received water baptism.

Yes, obey all of His commandments. I am not the one confused about obedience to Gods commands.

Yes, even though we cannot keep all of Gods commandments perfectly that does not mean God does not expect us to keep them. This should be obvious, I cannot understand why you don't understand this.

If it is an impossibility for man to obey ALL the commandments that God gives us. Then why would He give us commandments that He knows we cannot keep?

You position is not logical. You want me to believe God does not expect us to obey ALL that He commands? Do you not realize that if God commands us to keep all of His commandments and it is an impossible task to do so, that God must be intentionally causing us to sin against Him?

Say I give you commands to do in one 24 hour period.

But instead of being fair to you. I give you commands that I know are impossible for you to do in a 24 hour period.

Now let's say every command that is not done is a sin.

I just intentionally caused you to sin.

GOD NEVER CAUSES ANYONE TO INTENTIONALLY SIN, James 1:13-15.

If it is an impossibility to keep all of His commandments. Then guess what? God has set up His law to force us to go against Him. This is obviously not the purpose of His law. He wants just the opposite. For us not to sin against Him.

If all of His law cannot be obeyed by man. Then Jesus could not of kept His law perfectly. For Jesus was tempted in All ways that we are tempted. Jesus had all the same temptations that we have, yet He kept Gods law perfectly. Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

But it is true that we are not capable of keeping ALL of His commandments PERFECT as Jesus did. We all fall short. Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

And this is where you misunderstood Gods gospel. You think I think every commandment must be kept PERFECTLY to be saved.

I never taught you must be a perfect law keeper to be saved. What I did teach is you can keep all of His commandments. If not, again God has set up a system of law that FORCES US TO COMMIT SIN. God will not do this to us. Matthew 11:29-30 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart and you will find rest for your souls, For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

What the Bible means when it teaches we are to obey ALL His commandments is that not one of His commandments are beyond human capability, John 14:15 If you love Me keep My commandments.

This is what I mean that God expects us to keep ALL His commandments. But God does not put a yoke on us that we cannot bear. Again if he did His law is set up to force us into sin.

So PRIMARY obedience to the gospel, in order to be saved, can be done by man. God has made His plan of salvation possible for man to obey. We can keep all of the commands that He requires for us to be saved. Here are all the commandments that Jesus has given us to be saved:

Believe 1John 3:23-24

Repentance of sins Acts 17:30

Confession of our faith in Christ Acts 8:37

Water baptism for forgiveness of sins Acts 2:38; 1Peter 3:20-21

Do you think mankind is incapable of obeying ALL of these commandments? If they are then why did God command them?

Now after we are saved God expects us to keep all His commandments till death, Revelation 2:10. If not all of His commandments, then please show me which ones He allows us to not obey?

Is God giving us an impossible task that we cannot bear? Only if some of His commandments are an impossibility for man to do. Beyond man's capabilities.

Does this have anything to do with PERFECT LAW KEEPING? No it does not.

This is why we have a Savior, to remit our sins when we fall short and break His laws. We are commanded to repent and continue in fighting against the sinful desires of the flesh, Galatians 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Since it is a fact that God commands us to keep all His commandments. This proves to us that none of His commandments are beyond man's abilities to keep.

If we choose not to keep them, God will choose not to save us.

If we choose to keep them but not perfectly all the time.
It is God that will save us from our sins.

You cannot see the error that Baptist doctrine has put in your mind. That we can obey Gods commandments without it being meritorious to our salvation.

Your doctrine is illogical. You have us NOT obeying God in order to be saved. That makes no rational sense.

Gods commandments are therefore non-essential to receive His forgiveness. How can a direct commandment be non-essential?

You have already admitted you must OBEY a commandment of God in order for God to save you, 1John 3:23-24 And this is is commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. But then you say commandments are non-essential to our salvation. You contradict yourself and say obedience to Gods commands do not save us. O, brother this faith alone has got you confused.

If obeying the commandment to repent, Acts 17:30 is not meritorious as your able to see.

And obeying the commandment to believe, 1John 3:23-24 is not meritorious as sometimes your able to see,(except when you change your story).

Then this proves that other commandments that we obey are not meritorious. Like baptism, Acts 2:38.

Yes commandments must be obeyed in order for God to save us, 1John 3:23-24.

We can keep all of His commandments. They are all within man's abilities. But we will sin and break those commandments that we were already keeping. That is where repentance comes in, 1John 1:9

Danthemailman's Baptist doctrine of faith alone has contradictions on obeying Gods commandments,

Obedient faith is just another way for you to say faith + works. Works of obedience "follow" salvation through faith in Christ and do not precede it. (Ephesians 2:8-10) You have the tail wagging the dog, the cart before the horse.

Now you say salvation does include obeying Gods commandments in order to be saved, taking my position also.

What is there for me to explain? I've said numerous times that there are commands to be obeyed (in order to become saved) and there are commands to be obeyed (after we have been saved) but you seem to mix this up. A command cannot be done without obeying it.

You can see commandments must be obeyed BEFORE WE ARE SAVED.

And you can see that this primary obedience to Jesus' gospel is not meritorious works.

Yet you cannot see that repentance after faith and water baptism can also be commandments that we obey just like believing in Jesus, 1John 3:23-24, and not be earning our salvation.

And I understand why you think the way you do. It is because sola fide and your baptist doctrines are illogical, unbiblical and have blinded you from seeing simple to understand Biblical principles. Until you admit that not all obedience before salvation is meritorious. You will continue to contradict and confuse the true Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Titus Dorn]

Any works which "follow" saving faith in Christ which would be the basis or means by which we obtain salvation would be meritorious. Paul does not teach saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. That is all just Campbellite smoke and mirrors.

This is showing the ignorance of the baptists knowledge and understanding of works in the scriptures. Danthemailman I tried to teach you there are all kinds of works in the Bible. You did not learn a thing.

Quote from Danthemailman: "Paul does not teach saved by "these" works and just not "those" works"

Are you that ignorant of works? So, Paul makes no distinction on what kind of works save us? I guess Gods works are no different than the rest? Gods works do not save? John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father has been working until now and I(Jesus) have been working.

I will make you contradict yourself again.

Any command man obeys is a work, James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by WORKS when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

Abraham OBEYED God. He did a work of God through obedience to Gods command.

Any kind of work that follows salvation to stay saved must be according to Danthemailman meritorious.

If this is the logical argument that Danthemailman wants to hold to, then take it to its logical conclusion.

To be consistent with this reasoning, all works to obtain salvation before one is saved must be meritorious also.

Does not matter whether before or after salvation. All works would be meritorious if any work at all is required to be saved. Because Danthemailman says Paul makes no distinction between the different kinds of works.

Ok, you said it.

This obedient work must be excluded since Paul makes no distinction. According to Faith alone no works of any kind save us.

John 6:28-29
Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.

If no works of any kind are involved in man's salvation as Faith alone teaches. Then Gods works do not save. Nor does our obedience to the command to have faith in Jesus.

1John 3:23-24
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

According to Danthemailman any kind of works that are involved in obtaining salvation must be meritorious.

The baptist refuse to differentiate the difference between works. In their doctrines, all works are bad if they are required to be saved. Obedient works to Gods commands like water baptism, Mark 16:15-16 if obeyed in order to obtain salvation is a "bad" work and will send you to hell. This command to be water baptized if obeyed, Acts 10:48 would be a meritorious work only.

This same misguided teaching from the Baptist must also be true of the obedient work man is commanded to obey in 1John 3:23-24 , faith in Jesus, for it to be logically consistent and true.

1John 3:23-24 is a commandment that must be obeyed by man in order to obtain salvation.

This is where the faith without any obedience to be saved ie Faith alone gospel, is shown to be contradictory to Jesus gospel.

Faith alone contradicts the Bible itself. It therefore cannot be the Biblical gospel found in the new testament.

Paul teaches an obedient faith is the Biblical faith that saves us. Neve faith with no obedience to God.

Romans 16:26 but now made manifest and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the COMMANDMENT of the everlasting God, for OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH(GOSPEL).

Nowhere in this passage does Paul teach what the baptist sect teaches. The Baptist will pervert this passage to say it is after we are saved to obey. Paul nowhere says this.

If we just read the verse without any bias, it says what it says, for obedience to the faith.

Paul does teach that Biblical faith that saves is always an obedient faith, before and after salvation.

1Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that OBEY not the gospel of God

 

[Danthemailman]

Jesus' gospel is not from uninspired men like Martin Luther and his gospel of Faith Alone. And John Smyth the founder of the Baptist sectarian church in the 1600's. Jesus' gospel is also not from uninspired men who obeyed Jesus' gospel like Alexander Campbell and taught His gospel to others. If I took Jesus' gospel and taught it to aborigines in Australia. It would not be my gospel for I have no gospel of my own.

I have already proven Alexander Campbell did not establish the church of Christ in America. For you to ignore these historical facts now that you are educated of these facts. Yet still make these false claims, makes you dishonest. It is a historical fact that John Smyth did establish his church in 1609, that he named the Baptist church. Named after John the baptist not after Jesus Christ. Obviously not the Lords church, Matthew 16:18-19; Romans 16:16.

Danthemailman's response,

Yes, obey all of His commandments. I am not the one confused about obedience to Gods commands.

Yes, even though we cannot keep all of Gods commandments perfectly that does not mean God does not expect us to keep them. This should be obvious, I cannot understand why you don't understand this.

If it is an impossibility for man to obey ALL the commandments that God gives us. Then why would He give us commandments that He knows we cannot keep?

You position is not logical. You want me to believe God does not expect us to obey ALL that He commands? Do you not realize that if God commands us to keep all of His commandments and it is an impossible task to do so, that God must be intentionally causing us to sin against Him?

Say I give you commands to do in one 24 hour period.

But instead of being fair to you. I give you commands that I know are impossible for you to do in a 24 hour period.

Now let's say every command that is not done is a sin.

I just intentionally caused you to sin.

GOD NEVER CAUSES ANYONE TO INTENTIONALLY SIN, James 1:13-15.

If it is an impossibility to keep all of His commandments. Then guess what? God has set up His law to force us to go against Him. This is obviously not the purpose of His law. He wants just the opposite. For us not to sin against Him.

If all of His law cannot be obeyed by man. Then Jesus could not of kept His law perfectly. For Jesus was tempted in All ways that we are tempted. Jesus had all the same temptations that we have, yet He kept Gods law perfectly. Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

But it is true that we are not capable of keeping ALL of His commandments PERFECT as Jesus did. We all fall short. Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

And this is where you misunderstood Gods gospel. You think I think every commandment must be kept PERFECTLY to be saved.

I never taught you must be a perfect law keeper to be saved. What I did teach is you can keep all of His commandments. If not, again God has set up a system of law that FORCES US TO COMMIT SIN. God will not do this to us. Matthew 11:29-30 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart and you will find rest for your souls, For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

What the Bible means when it teaches we are to obey ALL His commandments is that not one of His commandments are beyond human capability, John 14:15 If you love Me keep My commandments.

This is what I mean that God expects us to keep ALL His commandments. But God does not put a yoke on us that we cannot bear. Again if he did His law is set up to force us into sin.

So PRIMARY obedience to the gospel, in order to be saved, can be done by man. God has made His plan of salvation possible for man to obey. We can keep all of the commands that He requires for us to be saved. Here are all the commandments that Jesus has given us to be saved:

Believe 1John 3:23-24

Repentance of sins Acts 17:30

Confession of our faith in Christ Acts 8:37

Water baptism for forgiveness of sins Acts 2:38; 1Peter 3:20-21

Do you think mankind is incapable of obeying ALL of these commandments? If they are then why did God command them?

Now after we are saved God expects us to keep all His commandments till death, Revelation 2:10. If not all of His commandments, then please show me which ones He allows us to not obey?

Is God giving us an impossible task that we cannot bear? Only if some of His commandments are an impossibility for man to do. Beyond man's capabilities.

Does this have anything to do with PERFECT LAW KEEPING? No it does not.

This is why we have a Savior, to remit our sins when we fall short and break His laws. We are commanded to repent and continue in fighting against the sinful desires of the flesh, Galatians 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Since it is a fact that God commands us to keep all His commandments. This proves to us that none of His commandments are beyond man's abilities to keep.

If we choose not to keep them, God will choose not to save us.

If we choose to keep them but not perfectly all the time.
It is God that will save us from our sins.

You cannot see the error that Baptist doctrine has put in your mind. That we can obey Gods commandments without it being meritorious to our salvation.

Your doctrine is illogical. You have us NOT obeying God in order to be saved. That makes no rational sense.

Gods commandments are therefore non-essential to receive His forgiveness. How can a direct commandment be non-essential?

You have already admitted you must OBEY a commandment of God in order for God to save you, 1John 3:23-24 And this is is commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. But then you say commandments are non-essential to our salvation. You contradict yourself and say obedience to Gods commands do not save us. O, brother this faith alone has got you confused.

If obeying the commandment to repent, Acts 17:30 is not meritorious as your able to see.

And obeying the commandment to believe, 1John 3:23-24 is not meritorious as sometimes your able to see,(except when you change your story).

Then this proves that other commandments that we obey are not meritorious. Like baptism, Acts 2:38.

Yes commandments must be obeyed in order for God to save us, 1John 3:23-24.

We can keep all of His commandments. They are all within man's abilities. But we will sin and break those commandments that we were already keeping. That is where repentance comes in, 1John 1:9

Danthemailman's Baptist doctrine of faith alone has contradictions on obeying Gods commandments,

Now you say salvation does include obeying Gods commandments in order to be saved, taking my position also.

You can see commandments must be obeyed BEFORE WE ARE SAVED.

And you can see that this primary obedience to Jesus' gospel is not meritorious works.

Yet you cannot see that repentance after faith and water baptism can also be commandments that we obey just like believing in Jesus, 1John 3:23-24, and not be earning our salvation.

And I understand why you think the way you do. It is because sola fide and your baptist doctrines are illogical, unbiblical and have blinded you from seeing simple to understand Biblical principles. Until you admit that not all obedience before salvation is meritorious. You will continue to contradict and confuse the true Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ.

I’m sorry but it’s painfully obvious to me that you are deeply indoctrinated into Campbellism and are just too mixed up for me. You and I will never come to an agreement and this endless conversation is just a waste of time. I just hope and pray that at least a seed has been planted that one day will be watered and lead you to the truth. Goodbye and God bless.

 

[Titus Dorn]

I’m sorry but it’s painfully obvious to me that you are deeply indoctrinated into Campbellism and are just too mixed up for me. You and I will never come to an agreement and this endless conversation is just a waste of time. I just hope and pray that at least a seed has been planted that one day will be watered and lead you to the truth. Goodbye and God bless.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I am going to point out the most obvious reasons why the baptist church cannot be Christ's Church.

1.) The church itself is named after John the baptist!

Folks, there is no church in the Bible founded by John the Baptist. He never had a church and never will. I do know if he were alive today he would condemn any church named after him.

Who established and who's name is the church found in the new testament? Answer, Jesus Christ. He purchased the church with His blood.

Jesus built His church. No man had any part in the true church found in the new testament. This is a work of God.

Matthew 16:18-19
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build MY(Jesus Christ) church. And the gates of hades shall not prevail against it.

Acts 20:28
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

Jesus' gospel revealed through the Holy Spirit teaches us we MUST be in His church in order to be saved. For all those IN Christ are in His body. His body is His church,

Paul taught only one church,

Colossians 1:24
I now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church.

Christ has only one body, therefore Christ can have only one church,

Ephesians 4:4
There is ONE BODY and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling.

Only the saved are IN Christ's body,

The new testament teaches us that reconciliation(making peace with God) is only possible in one body,

Ephesians 2:16
And that He might RECONCILE them both to God in ONE BODY through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Therefore to be reconciled with Christ we must be IN His church and no other.

Do you realize that all the saved are IN Christ. And likewise all the saved are IN His church?

Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the SAVIOR OF THE BODY.

Many today are so ignorant of the Bible that they think they do not have to be in His church to be saved. This goes against the Bible.

If you are not in His church. You are not IN Christ where all the saved are.

Acts 4:12
Nor is there salvation IN any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

How does one get IN Christ according to the gospel?

Through obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 5:8-9

How and where do we get INTO Christ?

Galatians 3:26-27
For you are all sons of God through faith IN Christ Jesus.

For as many of you as were baptized INTO Christ have PUT ON Christ.

The Bible teaches that when we through faith obey Jesus gospel by believing, repentance, confession and water immersion, baptism. This is where we Get IN Christ.

In His body, which is His church!

All are added to His church, when we are baptized. This is how all the saved are IN Christ. According to the Bible not Baptist manuals and creed books.

Did you know that the Baptist sect teach error on how one gets into Jesus' church, His body?

The Baptist sects teach MEN vote to decide to allow you to join their church!!!

In the true church founded by Jesus Christ. God himself adds you to His church not men!!!

Acts 2:47
Praising God and having favor with all the people. AND THE LORD ADDED TO THE CHURCH DAILY THOSE WHO WERE BEING SAVED.

That is true Biblical teaching on why we must know who's church is the real church of Christ. And why you must be IN it to be saved.

Ask a baptist if you have to be IN his church to be saved.

He will tell you no!!!! He proves that his church is non-essential to your salvation!!! AND HE IS RIGHT!

Romans 16:16
Greet one another with a Holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you. Amen

 

[Stephen3141]

In today's world where churches and different beliefs are popping up on every corner, not to mention the years of churches preaching a watered down Bible and God. What does the Bible say and not say concerning salvation? Seems to me that if one is going to endeavor to be a Christian, one would be concerned with God's word more so than anything else!!! 1. No where does the NT say or imply that anyone has ever been saved by praying "the sinners prayer".
2. The Bible does however say specifically that obedience IS involved in salvation.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. -
The Bible says what the Bible says, regardless of what anyone believes. Sure, there are prophetic areas of the Bible where I may be right in the interpretation or you may be or we both may be wrong, but I submit to you that anything pertaining to salvation is straight forward requiring zero interpretation. Would God want us to be saved and not tell us how to be saved? Would God be a just God by requiring this for salvation from one person and something different from another thus making it impossible to know? Not according to the Word of God. For those who will argue the "sinner prayer" i have but one more verse for ponderance.

Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. - John 9:31
Can a sinner pray him/her self to heaven?
Not according to God's word.
In Him

In order to discuss being "saved", one has to consider the New Testaments and Old Testament's use of "salvation".

Your post is basically right. You need to study the use of the NT swzw/swzomai and the OT equivalent for "salvation".

Someone like N.T. Wright would assert that the first 8-9 chapters of Romans, are Paul's idea of what the "gospel" is.

A study of the biblical language suggests that "salvation" in the Bible covers a very broad collection of meanings.
Also, the NT usage of verbs reveals that salvation is a lifelong process. It is more accurate to speak of how we enter the People of God, how we are to live to remain in good standing in the People of God, and how we may exit the People of God.

Studying the Bible in English translations, always contains hidden problems.
It is easy to miss what in the Greek New Testament is a process, and misunderstand it as a state.
It is easy to miss the large number of references in the OT to "salvation".

I agree with the basic assertion of your post.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Stephen3141, the OP author who you are replying to in your post (#207) has not been seen here, must less posted here, since November 15, 2019. So, unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that Just_a_Christian will reply to your post (or even read it), just FYI.

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - I have a couple of questions for you, which I will hopefully be able to return and ask later this evening (Dv).

 

[A G]

All I can add as I frequently do once again a massive thanks to our Lord and St Jude for lighting the way and granting safe passage! Thank you

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

I don't know if this thread is still alive, but I haven't seen anyone use

Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

Something to ponder on, having your name in the book of life but potentially blotted out. How could this happen?

 

[setst777]

I don't know if this thread is still alive, but I haven't seen anyone use

Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

Something to ponder on, having your name in the book of life but potentially blotted out. How could this happen?

Greetings! I love "Revelations 3:1-5" and do quote it often. I don't think I used it on this thread though.

How could that happen? Well, the Scriptures teach us about the names that are NOT written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world - that would be everybody. The only way we get to have our names written in the Book of Life is by repentance, and faith in Lord Jesus. However, we are warned to remain faithful or be cut off from Christ.

I quote "Revelation 3:1-5" with other similar Passages, as follows:

Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB) “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Matthew 25:31-46 (WEB) 45 “Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

1 Peter 1:17 (WEB) 17 If you call on him as Father, who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, pass the time of your living as foreigners here in reverent fear

Hebrews 4:1 (WEB) 1 Let’s fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into His Rest.

Hebrews 4:11 (WEB) 11 Let’s therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.

Blessings

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

Greetings! I love "Revelations 3:1-5" and do quote it often. I don't think I used it on this thread though.

I quote "Revelation 3:1-5" with other similar Passages, as follows:

Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB) “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Matthew 25:31-46 (WEB) 45 “Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

1 Peter 1:17 (WEB) 17 If you call on him as Father, who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, pass the time of your living as foreigners here in reverent fear

Hebrews 4:1 (WEB) 1 Let’s fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into His Rest.

Hebrews 4:11 (WEB) 11 Let’s therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.

Blessings

It is interesting, as the seven letters in Revelations, are to the churches, people assumedly profess and believe in Christ, yet still called to repentance. I did read most of the posts, but it was a lot. So forgive me for asking for you to repeat yourself, but do you believe in once saved always saved? Personally I haven't made up my mind on this as I feel there are scriptures for and against it.

 

[setst777]

It is interesting, as the seven letters in Revelations, are to the churches, people assumedly profess and believe in Christ, yet still called to repentance. I did read most of the posts, but it was a lot. So forgive me for asking for you to repeat yourself, but do you believe in once saved always saved? Personally I haven't made up my mind on this as I feel there are scriptures for and against it.

Hi, I updated my post to you, which will give me away as not being OSAS. Click on my last post again. Blessings.

 

[Rescued One]

It is interesting, as the seven letters in Revelations, are to the churches, people assumedly profess and believe in Christ, yet still called to repentance. I did read most of the posts, but it was a lot. So forgive me for asking for you to repeat yourself, but do you believe in once saved always saved? Personally I haven't made up my mind on this as I feel there are scriptures for and against it.

God reveals truth to those He is saving; He doesn't throw them out!

Philippians 1:6 and 9-11
6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

9And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10so that you may be able to test and prove what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

1 Corinthians 1
4I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; 5That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; 6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Rescued One]

Hi, are you truly wanting to discuss the issue of how£ to be saved? Because it seems to me that you have already answered your own question without even including other members. I imagine Gideons International would be disappointed with your forthright statement that no one has ever been saved through saying the Sinner's Prayer.

I was 10 years old when I said the "Sinner's Prayer". A small group of Gideons was invited by my State-run secular school in Doncaster, England, to our Morning Assembly, where, at the beginning of every school morning, before any classes, we would begin with a hymn from Songs of Praise - a brand new copy handed to each pupil as they came into the hall. The music teacher played the piano every morning enthusiastically, not because it was her duty, but because she wanted us all to be filled with joy and hope and be ready to learn and enjoy the day ahead. Everyone loved her enthusiasm - it was infectious. She was also the main organist for the Parish Church and a practising Christian. A favourite hymn which we all liked was "All things bright and beautiful, All Creatures great and small, All things bright and wonderful, the Lord God made them all." Then there was a Bible reading, more singing, and a head teacher, sometimes the Headmaster, would give an inspiring talk on a different topic each morning, always speaking so that we could understand. Then more singing, then we filed out two by two often to our individual classes.

The reason why I'm going into considerable detail regarding Morning Assembly is because it is so clear to me now how a Moral Education programme was carefully considered over a period of three or four years up to the age of about 12 and delivered at the beginning of the morning - at a time in my early years, when everyone attended the school where they lived, everyone wore school uniforms, everyone had a proper breakfast in their own house, and everyone showed proper respect.

The school curriculum was largely organised by the teachers with no SATS or any exams at all. Middle School was all about learning through enjoyment and free thinking and creativity. Yes, I know it sounds like another world. It was. But the teachers carefully weaved a spiritual element into all aspects of the school day without overt evangelism or overt secularism either. The focus was more on how God is in Nature, how he is real and our Father in Heaven and also everywhere on Earth. Jesus was acknowledged but never pushed ahead of God, more someone who was in the background and you found him in church buildings rather than at school or home or even in Nature. He was just Jesus, but we loved God more.

The Gideons, it is clear to me now, were not invited to our school on a whim of the enthusiastic music teacher, but rather the timing and delivery of their message was central to the school ethos and Moral Education programme. So, that particular morning, one day close to finishing Middle School and before moving up to the "Big School", the Gideons were invited to talk to us in Morning Assembly about Jesus - to introduce to us the idea of what it means to lead a good moral life as a Christian, and who Jesus was 2000 years ago and who he is now. It was delivered in a gentle manner, never judging us working-class lot as "sinners" with a capital S. Yet their message had tremendous impact.

A Pocket New Testament was given to each of us who were in their final year, for us to read and keep and not return and it was free. I took mine home and read it all in 3 days. I was excited about this Roman and Greek world I read about. I wanted to know this man Jesus and I wanted to follow him.

So, at the end of New Testament, as invited, I said the Sinner's Prayer. It was a solemn moment and I was filled with joy and hope and energy. I felt completely different. I knew I was now saved. I knew God reached down and touched my heart and soul and mind and body - AFTER I said the Sinner's Prayer. So, you see, the Sinner's Prayer DOES save people - but the prayer is just the beginning.

Jesus died needlessly if prayer saves. But a person's faith in Jesus' blood is given by God because the wages of sin is death but the Gift of God is eternal life.

 

[setst777]

So obey all of His commandments in order to be saved, but you won't obey them perfectly. The funny thing is, even according to your mixed up gospel, I'm still saved. I have already heard, repented, placed my faith in Christ for salvation and afterwards received water baptism.

Here is where your gospel gets complicated. In 1 John 1:6, we read - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. *Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. *Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11, we read - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness" and "hates his brother" is connected with "children of the devil."

In regards to 1 John 1:9, notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.

Either we walk in the light or else we don't. Stay walking implies pull yourself up by your own boot straps and keep yourself saved (type 2 works salvation). That is self preservation rather than God's preservation. (Psalms 37:28)

If this verse teaches that we must be "faithful enough" in addition to placing our faith in Christ for salvation (as you seem to be implying) then just "how faithful would you have to be?" Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include ANY number of good works. This verse is meant to be an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. Jesus was not telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" in addition to having faith in Him that they will not receive eternal life. That is salvation by works! The Lord was telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death. (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9) Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are not faithful.

Jesus' gospel is logical and does not contradict itself like the doctrines of Campbellism.

Good message, and I agree with most of what you wrote except where you start getting into the Calvinist/Reformed understanding of salvation. Faith is not part of salvation; rather, we are saved by faith in Lord Jesus (John 3:16). All God's promises and guarantees are accessed and kept by faith in Lord Jesus. All God’s promises are guaranteed to those who believe in Lord Jesus demonstrated in holy life before him – crucified to the old Master, and now living by God’s Spirit.

Romans 4:16 (ENIV) 16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring

Hebrews 10:35-38 (EWEB) 35 Therefore do not throw away your boldness, which has a great reward. 36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise

You will find not one Scripture that teaches that the Christian is guaranteed his faith onto salvation to the end, or that faith is part of salvation; rather, the responsibility is on each Christian to endure to inherit eternal life. If Paul expresses confidence that a group of Christians will remain faithful, his "confidence" is not a guarantee that they will remain faithful.

Galatians 3:13-14 (EWEB) 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:21-22 (EWEB) For if there had been a law given which could make alive [regeneration], most certainly righteousness would have been of the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned all things under sin so that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe

Hebrews 4:1 (EWEB) Let us fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into His Rest.

Hebrews 4:11 (EWEB)
11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.

How faithful are born again Christians to be? Christians are to be holy, just a God is holy.

1 Peter 1:14-16 (EWEB) 14 as children of obedience, not conforming yourselves according to your former lusts as in your ignorance, 15 but just as he who called you is holy, you yourselves also be holy in all of your behavior; 16 because it is written, “You shall be holy; for I am holy.” [Leviticus 11:44-45]

Unless a born-again believer continues to manifest his faith in a sanctified life of righteousness, he is rejecting God and His Spirit; such as these do not belong to Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 (WEB) Finally then, brothers, we beg and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, that you abound more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who don’t know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.

Galatians 5:24-25 (NIV) 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever continues in sin is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

To walk in the light, to walk in the Spirit, is to follow Lord Jesus into sanctification onto righteousness and love. This is the Christian who is forgiven of all sins he commits in weakness and confesses; and so, the true Christian always remains holy onto God in righteousness.

1 John 6:7 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

 

[Rescued One]

Please don't use theological waffle

Please define theological waffle. Thank you.

 

[Rescued One]

Is There a Salvation Prayer?

While there is no such thing as a “sinner’s prayer” that saves us, there is absolutely a kind of prayer that, in response to God’s grace, results in our salvation. “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” (Romans 10:13).

www.christianity.com

"While there is no such thing as a “sinner’s prayer” that saves us, there is absolutely a kind of prayer that, in response to God’s grace, results in our salvation. “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” (Romans 10:13)."

Please define "calling on the name of the Lord." After all which people who have no faith pray? Some people might do so to impress or satisfy someone else.

 

[Rescued One]

Gideons International have a prayer of repentance which they call the "Sinner's Prayer", which they place at the back of the Pocket New Testaments which they hand out to people. This prayer is an invitation to repentance and salvation. If it's good enough for Gideons it's good enough for me. We should not be bound by theology in the spreading of the gospel.

How do you separate gospel and theology?

 

[Rescued One]

Simply,
what is written? What does the Creator say about "calling on the name of the Lord" ?

Very simple. Not complicated. Easy for little ones to accomplish. Or desperate ones needing healing perhaps ? When they get to the end of their rope, and call on the name of the Lord, who helps them ? HE DOES. Do they get to see that it is HIM? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on HIM.

What do you say about multiple people who say prayers to impress other people?