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Featured How one is saved.....

Discussion in 'Congregation-specific Ethics' started by Just_a_Christian, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    In today's world where churches and different beliefs are popping up on every corner, not to mention the years of churches preaching a watered down Bible and God. What does the Bible say and not say concerning salvation? Seems to me that if one is going to endeavor to be a Christian, one would be concerned with God's word more so than anything else!!! 1. No where does the NT say or imply that anyone has ever been saved by praying "the sinners prayer".
    2. The Bible does however say specifically that obedience IS involved in salvation.
    2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
    since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. -
    The Bible says what the Bible says, regardless of what anyone believes. Sure, there are prophetic areas of the Bible where I may be right in the interpretation or you may be or we both may be wrong, but I submit to you that anything pertaining to salvation is straight forward requiring zero interpretation. Would God want us to be saved and not tell us how to be saved? Would God be a just God by requiring this for salvation from one person and something different from another thus making it impossible to know? Not according to the Word of God. For those who will argue the "sinner prayer" i have but one more verse for ponderance.

    Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him.
    - John 9:31
    Can a sinner pray him/her self to heaven?
    Not according to God's word.
    In Him
     
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  2. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Obedience is the result of salvation, not the means of it.
     
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  3. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    Not according to the Bible, you may believe that though
     
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  4. worshipjunkie

    worshipjunkie Active Member

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    You're right. Salvation is not a complicated affair.

    "Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)"

    "9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says,“Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” (Romans 10:9-11)

    "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (I John 1:9)

    "Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:30-31)

    "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16)

    "He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5)

    "For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power" (I Corinthians 1:17)

    There's more, but I think that's good for now. :) Clearly it is belief and repentance that is the critical part of the conversion process. And how else would you express that initial belief and repentance except through prayer? God does not require us to be righteous to be saved. "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5)
     
  5. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    I agree, it all starts with belief; but if we stop there we're no better than the demons who not only believe but also tremble..
     
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  6. royal priest

    royal priest debtor to grace

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    The law of God is clear that obedience is the basis of any man's salvation. It must be perfect obedience from a sinless heart.
    Galatians 3:22-26
    But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus
    .

    We are taught by the law that we are sinner's and our hope of justification is to be found in the perfect righteousness of another person.
     
  7. setst777

    setst777 Active Member Supporter

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    "Just a Christian" ... I like the name you chose for this board. And your understanding of Faith, as far as I can tell so far, is what Christ taught us, what the Gospel teaches us, what all the Epistles teach us and warn us about.

    I am just a Bible student myself, and a follow of Christ Jesus.

    From soberly studying the Scriptures, what I see as the Bible faith in Jesus that saves is founded on these principles:


    To believe in Jesus is to be a follower (disciple) > Matthew 28:19-20 < of Jesus – to listen to and follow Him as His sheep > John 10:27-28 <. These are the only sheep that receive eternal life (verse 28).

    To follow Christ, means this:
    • Deny yourself, which is, to live as aliens in this world, not allowing your sinful nature to master your life in the fulfilling of its desires as your purpose or reason for living > Mark 8:34-36 <. Only these are granted eternal life.
    • To take up our crosses means that believers in Christ, just like Jesus, are promised suffering in this world in many different ways that continually test our faith (temptation, persecution, trials, spiritual warfare and martyrdom) > James 1:12 <. Therefore, we must conduct our lives as though we could be killed at any time as we follow Christ. Such testing refines our faith, and also tests how genuine our faith really is – whether we truly counted the cost of faith in Christ, which is to follow Him with our entire lives > Luke 14:28-33 <, which is the definition of sanctification.
    • To follow Christ in this way means that, as we deny self and take up our crosses, we are now living sanctified (set apart lives onto God). To live sanctified lives is the New Life - the developing and using all that we are, and all that we have, to help others, to be a force of Good on earth, and especially to share the Gospel of Salvation from sin and death. This is the command of our Lord that He taught by parables, by teachings, and by His own life as an example for us to follow, and by the Great Commission > Matthew 28:19-20 <.
    As we live out our lives as followers of Christ, we show our faith in Him is genuine - that we are His sheep.

    Instead of living to fulfill the desires of our flesh in this world, we now live to serve Christ.

    Therefore, a follower of Christ cares for his body, mind, spirit, and his life to be a healthy sanctified temple of God’s Holy Spirit to dwell and work through. The reason for caring for our bodies and minds, then, is so that we may fully carry out our Lord’s command to be His light of Love in this world and includes sharing the Gospel.

    New Life - Only as we daily deny self and Live by the Spirit

    Only as we dedicate our lives to God in this way do we receive the Holy Spirit to work with our faith to live out this New Life.

    Romans 8 (NIV)
    12
    Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

    Galatians 5 (WEB)
    24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.

    Galatians 6 (WEB)
    8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap Eternal Life.

    Galatians 5 (WEB)
    16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh.

    Therefore, regeneration is God’s work in those who, by a genuine Bible faith, obey His Spirit that indwells the believer. This is regeneration – only by faith.

    To do the good works that God created us for, we must, by faith, be in Christ, which is to be obedient to His Spirit who lives in us by faith to be saved. We saw the Scriptures. And that is why we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling (living by God’s Spirit in us). By so doing, God is working out His will in our lives through His Spirit in us.

    We only receive God's Spirit in us by faith:

    Galatians 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promised Spirit.

    Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.

    And by the Spirit living in us by a genuine faith (as described) is how we are regenerated:

    John 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

    John 4 13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

    Blessings
     
  8. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you want to know what is minimally necessary to be saved, look at the thief on the cross. However, as Christians, we shouldn't strive for the minimum.
     
  9. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
     
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  10. worshipjunkie

    worshipjunkie Active Member

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    There's a difference between genuine repentence and saving faith, and the intellectual assent of demons. Of course, a living faith will manifest itself in works.
     
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  11. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    The thief on the cross was under the old law and the Great Physician just to his righ th or left. How is this pertinent to my salvation?
     
  12. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. -
    1. Taking vengence on those who do not KNOW God.
    2. Taking vengece on those who do not OBEY the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Take either from the Word = vengeance. It does not take a learned man to know the obvious, if you do not know God or believe, you of course will not keep His commandments. We are not talking about the schoolmaster here, but the perfect law of liberty. Doing what God says is what He tells us we MUST do.

    He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. - 1 John 2:4-5
    Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. - Revelation 22:14
    Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. - Revelation 14:12
    This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. - 2 John 1:6
    Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. - 1 John 3:24
    Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called. - 1 Corinthians 7:19-20
    If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. - John 15:10
    He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” - John 14:21
     
  13. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    The good works spoken of in the NT are distictly different from the commandments from God.
    For instance: And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:15-16
    Believes AND is baptized. An Absolute. Again, of course those that do not believe will not be baptized....why would they?
    Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. - Matthew 7:19-20
    By their fruits, visiting the sick, helping the homeless, assisting the widows....these are the fruits or good works.
    However, these good works even the workers of iniquities can and do perform.
    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. - Matthew 7:22-23
     
  14. setst777

    setst777 Active Member Supporter

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    The thief on the cross displayed a genuine faith in Christ Jesus according to the knowledge he had even before receiving the Spirit - (The Spirit was not yet given since Christ had not yet been raised from the dead - John 7:37-39)

    For instance, his faith in Christ led him to display bold courage in defending Christ Jesus against insults from the other thief. In other words, the thief that defended Lord Jesus was not ashamed of Jesus, or being associated with Jesus, even though being a convicted sinner. No doubt the thief suffered jeering and insults for defending Jesus.

    In addition, the thief had enough understanding to believe that Lord Jesus had power to save him, and asked Jesus to remember him.

    Lord Jesus, seeing that the thief's faith was genuine, granted his request. Jesus promised the thief that this very day the believing thief would be in Paradise with him.

    What we also learn is that a person is saved at the very instant they experience and express a genuine faith commitment in the Lord Jesus, before any works are ever done as evidence of that faith. However, the results of a genuine faith is discipleship - to follow Christ as our Lord Jesus commanded us to do. God looks on the heart.

    So, for any 'Christian' to use the "Thief on the Cross" as an example of faith without commitment to follow Christ and listen to His commands is to disown the entire New Covenant - which clearly describes the faith necessary to be saved.

    What true Christian will ever say that he believes in Jesus, but refuses to do as He commands? Such a faith is a lie.

    Luke 6:46 (Lord Jesus speaking)
    “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?"
     
  15. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And yet another proper time to post this: :) Here's what Jesus said, and I love the simplicity.

    John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
     
  16. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jason, we must also consider the idea Jesus was not making the point we need do nothing to be saved, he was simply using common sense, and was not going to ask/expect the impossible of the thief who obviously was not going to be able to prove himself obedient because he was going to be dead. Like a death bed confession, they only need believe because that's all they physically can do at that point.

    Had the thief lived, the same would have been expected of him as is expected of us who live.
     
  17. setst777

    setst777 Active Member Supporter

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    Very true and well said.
     
  18. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    Not true. At the time of the cross, everyone was still under the Law of Moses. Christ, also being DIETY was able to save or forgive the sins of anyone He deemed fit. A testament is of no effect as long as the testator still lives.
    And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. -
    Hebrews 9:15-17

    In Him
     
  19. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I trust Jesus will be fair in his judgment and treat everyone the same, as he is not a respecter of persons.

    Nothing has changed from my view in the thief/cross.
     
  20. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    According to God's word:
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. - Mark 16:16
    And we have the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts.
    So,And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. -
    Acts 8:36-38
    He preached to the eunuch the gospel of Jesus Christ and the eunuch confessed Christ as the son of God. Phillip commanded the chariot to stop for there was the URGENT need to baptize the eunuch.
    Again Mark 16:16
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned

     
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