How Old Is The Earth

[BNR32FAN]

First, its raqia, not Raqa.

Second, how does it help your case? What do you want to do with an expanse between two masses of water and with stars in it?

It can only switch the conversation to "does it mean the firmament or the space between the firmament and the earth", but it changes nothing about the Hebrew cosmology.

Not according to Biblehub

Strong's Hebrew: 7554. רָקַע (raqa) -- To spread out, to beat, to stamp, to stretch

 

[BNR32FAN]

First, its raqia, not Raqa.

Second, how does it help your case? What do you want to do with an expanse between two masses of water and with stars in it?

It can only switch the conversation to "does it mean the firmament or the space between the firmament and the earth", but it changes nothing about the Hebrew cosmology.

There’s no mention of any water on the fourth day. There’s the expanse the sky and there’s the expanse space. They’re two different expanses. It really does seem like you intentionally go out of your way to misunderstand anything I say.

 

[Apple Sky]

a) where does it say that God dictated anything to Moses - never mind the events that happened before Moses was born and after he died?

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp:

There is a purpose, and personal God, behind the creation of the earth - it wasn't chance, fate, kismet, an accident or anything else.

Never said it was.

How GOD created, we are not told. And we don't need to know - not for salvation or spiritual growth, anyway.

So you keep saying.
Doesn't it say in the Bible to prove all things ?

 

[Apple Sky]

There’s no mention of any water on the fourth day. There’s the expanse the sky and there’s the expanse space. They’re two different expanses. It really does seem like you intentionally go out of your way to misunderstand anything I say.

You've forgot the waters above.

 

[Strong in Him]

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp:

Sorry, the words "the Lord dictated the first 5 books of the Bible" are, where in that sentence?

Never said it was.

I never said that you did.
I'm telling you the purpose behind Genesis 1 - to show us that GOD created.
Why was the universe made? Because God wanted it to be.

So you keep saying.

Because some people aren't listening.

Doesn't it say in the Bible to prove all things ?

Well you haven't proved anything.

 

[trophy33]

Not according to Biblehub

Strong's Hebrew: 7554. רָקַע (raqa) -- To spread out, to beat, to stamp, to stretch

But thats a different word ;-) This one is not used in the "firmament" passage.

This one is - raqia: Strong's Hebrew: 7549. רָקִ֫יעַ (raqia) -- an extended surface, expanse

 

[trophy33]

There’s no mention of any water on the fourth day. There’s the expanse the sky and there’s the expanse space. They’re two different expanses. It really does seem like you intentionally go out of your way to misunderstand anything I say.

So God made the "raqia" and separated the water under the "raqia" from the water above it. And it was so.
Gen 1:7

What do you mean they are two different raqias? Where did you get this idea from?

 

[BNR32FAN]

You've forgot the waters above.

No I didn’t, I think the waters above would either be the clouds or the atmosphere.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But thats a different word ;-) This one is not used in the "firmament" passage.

This one is - raqia: Strong's Hebrew: 7549. רָקִ֫יעַ (raqia) -- an extended surface, expanse

That is not the word used in Genesis 1:17 which is used on the fourth day of creation where the sun, moon, and stars were placed.

Genesis 1:17 Lexicon: God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,

 

[BNR32FAN]

So God made the "raqia" and separated the water under the "raqia" from the water above it. And it was so.
Gen 1:7

What do you mean they are two different raqias? Where did you get this idea from?

Do birds fly in the same expanse as the sun & moon?

 

[trophy33]

That is not the word used in Genesis 1:17 which is used on the fourth day of creation where the sun, moon, and stars were placed.

Genesis 1:17 Lexicon: God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,

It is raqia, its just in a different form because of the preposition - bir-qî-a‘.

Try to click on 7549 in your own link ;-)

 

[trophy33]

Do birds fly in the same expanse as the sun & moon?

Scientifically, such cosmology does not exist. Biblically, yes.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is raqia, it’s just in a different form because of the preposition - bir-qî-a‘.

It is raqia, its just in a different form because of the preposition - bir-qî-a‘.

Try to click on 7549 in your own link ;-)

I don’t know why they’re spelled differently I just used the version provided by Biblehub for Genesis 1:17. That’s one reason I prefer Biblehub over Strong’s Concordance, because Biblehub gives the specific usage and spelling of the words whereas Strong’s doesn’t do that. Take the word day for example. If you search for the word day in Strong’s concordance in the OT every single example is going to be Yom, but if you search for it in Biblehub you’ll get Yovm, Yamim, Yemei, Beyovm, and a few more variations of the word Yom, each with its own distinct meaning.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Scientifically, such cosmology does not exist. Biblically, yes.

The Bible doesn’t say that there is only one expanse.

 

[Apple Sky]

Sorry, the words "the Lord dictated the first 5 books of the Bible" are, where in that sentence?

The Bible proves that Moses talked with God face to face, who knows what other things they may have talked about. How else could Moses have written the first five books of the Bible.

 

[Apple Sky]

Do birds fly in the same expanse as the sun & moon?

No - They do not fly in the Firmament/Vault of heaven

 

[trophy33]

The Bible doesn’t say that there is only one expanse.

There was no need. Biblical cosmology was nothing revolutionary, regarding the composition. It was different theologically, though.

And if you look at Hebrew, you will see both occurrences in Genesis are exactly the same phrase - the firmament of heavens.


Therefore, nothing indicates they are meant as two firmaments or expanses.

 

[trophy33]

No - They do not fly in the Firmament/Vault of heaven

Well, the Hebrew language is so ambiguous that no precise translation is possible. The word "al" can have all these meanings:

about (27), about* (1), above (43), above* (16), accordance (2), accordance* (1), according (40), according* (2), account (11), account* (2), across* (1), addition (4), addition* (1), afflicted (1), after (14), after* (1), against (536), against* (1), along (11), alongside* (1), although (1), among (7), around (11), attention* (1), because (82), because* (49), before (10), before* (19), behalf (18), behind* (2), beside (47), beside* (6), besides (5), besiege* (1), besieged* (13), besieging (1), besieging* (5), better than (1), between (1), beyond (3), beyond* (1), bordered* (1), care (1), carried (1), charge (31), charge* (1), command (1), committed (1), concerning (97), concerning* (5), confront (1), confront* (1), connection (1), conquer* (1), consider* (3), considered* (2), contrary (1), corresponding (2), corresponding* (1), crowns (1), defiance* (1), despite (1), due (1), duty (1), east* (7), encouragingly* (2), engaged (1), even (1), everywhere* (1), faces* (1), facing* (1), far (2), forsaking* (1), full* (1), fully* (1), have charge (1), inasmuch* (5), instead* (1), leave* (1), length* (1), more than (2), much (1), named* (1), near (4), next (9), next* (13), now* (1), obliging* (1), off (6), off* (5), opposed (1), opposite (1), opposite* (4), ornamented* (1), over (538), over* (6), overflowing* (1), overflows* (1), overlooks* (3), part (1), planned* (1), pleased* (1), pleases* (2), presence (2), pressed* (1), prompts* (1), reason (2), reason* (6), received (1), regard (3), regarding (1), respect (1), responsibility (1), ruthlessly* (1), sake (4), sake* (1), sakes (2), settled* (1), since* (1), so (1), so* (2), sorrow (1), spite (2), steward* (4), surround* (1), sworn* (1), task (1), than (1), than were over (1), theirs* (1), therefore* (139), thereon (1), through (3), throughout (3), together (3), too (3), top (1), top* (2), toward (20), toward* (5), under (12), until (1), upright* (2), upside* (1), urged* (1), view (1), way (1), when (1), where (1), where* (5), wherever* (2), while (1), why* (10), within (13), within* (1), wore (1).

Birds were supposed to fly above the firmament, against it, behind it, across it, facing it, around it, even in it, beyond it, over it, beside it... who knows.

The most frequent usage of the word is "above it".

 

[BNR32FAN]

There was no need. Biblical cosmology was nothing revolutionary, regarding the composition. It was different theologically, though.

And if you look at Hebrew, you will see both occurrences in Genesis are exactly the same phrase - the firmament of heavens.


Therefore, nothing indicates they are meant as two firmaments or expanses.

The Bible mentions an expanse separating the waters below from the waters above. The Bible also mentions an expanse that God places the sun, the moon, and the stars in. Are the sun, the moon, and the stars in between the waters below and the waters above?

 

[Strong in Him]

The Bible proves that Moses talked with God face to face,

Never said that he didn't.

who knows what other things they may have talked about.

No one - not even you.

"who knows what other things they may have talked about?" is not at all the same as saying "the Lord dictated the first 5 books of the Bible to Moses."

How else could Moses have written the first five books of the Bible.

How do you know that Adam and Eve didn't know about creation, and they taught it to Caine and Seth? How do you know Seth didn't pass it onto his sons - and so on, all the way down to Noah? Lamech, Noah's father, certainly seemed to know about the garden of Eden, Genesis 5:29.
How do you know that this account wasn't passed down, by word of mouth, until Moses eventually decided to write it down?
DID Moses write about things that had happened long after he was dead - or could it be that the first 5 books were attributed to Moses because no one really knew who wrote them?
Just as no one knows who wrote Hebrews, so people say it was Paul.