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How Old Is The Earth

trophy33

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The Christian religion never taught any such thing as a "big bang theory". The creation account in the bible, can't be used to support the big bang theory or the theory of evolution.
So this was never a belief held by any Christian Religion. I don't know what the Pagan Religions taught, but I know they're all false.
The Big Bang theory is not a religious theory. Its a scientific theory.

In the medieval times, the Catholic Church tried to talk about and enforce things they got no mandate to talk about or to enforce, which lead to many horrors and mistakes.
Even protestant churches did similar mistakes, like trying to apply the Old Testament rules to state politics.

Hopefully, we learnt from that. Did we not?

Our mandate is to teach about Christ, salvation and good/moral life. We have no other mandate, as Christians.
 
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Diamond72

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The Christian religion never taught any such thing as a "big bang theory".
The Chabad Hasidic Rabbi particularly within Kabbalistic teachings, there are references to the universe starting from a tiny point1. The Ramban (Nachmanides), a medieval Jewish scholar, also suggested that the universe began from a minuscule point, even smaller than a mustard seed.

This is known as the oral tradition which is MORE a part of our Bible than most people realize. These are the people that we receive the Old Testament from. So we trust them for that. The Bible talks about the 144,000 that are pure virgins. They have not defiled themselves. They actually have 613 LAWS that the teach and follow as a example or guide for others. But it is up to the individual if they want to follow the laws or not. The KJV uses the word iniquity.
 
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Dan1988

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The Big Bang theory is not a religious theory. Its a scientific theory.

In the medieval times, the Catholic Church tried to talk about and enforce things they got no mandate to talk about or to enforce, which lead to many horrors and mistakes.
Even protestant churches did similar mistakes, like trying to apply the Old Testament rules to state politics.

Hopefully, we learnt from that. Did we not?

Our mandate is to teach about Christ, salvation and good/moral life. We have no other mandate, as Christians.
Science belongs to Christians, we are the one's who established it in Europe so we own it and it can't be divorced from Christianity.

God created science and He blessed white European men with the highest IQ and intelligence, of all the worlds ethnic groups.

God is the One who set the laws that govern the natural world in place, He set their boundaries and parameters in place and science is nothing more than the pursuit to discover these laws and try to understand what is possible and what's impossible. God is the only One who is not bound by these laws, He can break them at His will anytime, but we are governed by them and we can't break or cheat them.

So the Church and Science are inseparable. Don't forget he Church invented and established Universities, Hospitals, Schools, Charities and every other good thing all of humanity enjoys and benefits from. Don't let anyone hoodwink you into believing that some Pagans discovered or invented anything, God never gifted them intelligence.
 
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Dan1988

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The Chabad Hasidic Rabbi particularly within Kabbalistic teachings, there are references to the universe starting from a tiny point1. The Ramban (Nachmanides), a medieval Jewish scholar, also suggested that the universe began from a minuscule point, even smaller than a mustard seed.

This is known as the oral tradition which is MORE a part of our Bible than most people realize. These are the people that we receive the Old Testament from. So we trust them for that. The Bible talks about the 144,000 that are pure virgins. They have not defiled themselves. They actually have 613 LAWS that the teach and follow as a example or guide for others. But it is up to the individual if they want to follow the laws or not. The KJV uses the word iniquity.
Thanks for confirming that for me, I knew you had to be talking about a Pagan Religion such as Kabbala based Judaism. The Kabbala has nothing to do with the bible and it was invented by the Phrases, who Jesus identified as "the children of the Devil", so that explains it all.

Even Orthodox Judaism is considered Pagan by Christians, they use the Torah but they deny the Holy Spirit, they deny the Lord Jesus Christ and they deny the Holy Trinity. So it doesn't get more Pagan than that.

When the Bible talks about Israel or Jews, it's referring to the Church, "the body of Christ and all those in Him". The Bible confirms that the Israel of God has no Jews in it, it has no Gentiles in it, it has no man or woman in it. Christ is the head of the Church and all of Gods people, AKA "the elect of God" are members of His Body but the Body is One and there is no Jews or Gentiles anymore.
 
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trophy33

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Science belongs to Christians, we are the one's who established it in Europe so we own it and it can't be divorced from Christianity.
No, science does not belong to Christians any more than computers belong to atheists, math to pagans or numbers to Muslims.

Any invention and progress belongs to all humanity.
 
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Diamond72

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I knew you had to be talking about a Pagan ReligionO the
You got your Bible from Pagans? Or you are just anti sematic? In matthew 15 24 Jesus says: "“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” Jesus refers to the pagans as "dogs". So do you reject the Old Testament as being "pagan"? On the day of Pentecost the disciples were very surprised that the gentiles could be saved and receive the Holy Spirit.
 
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Dan1988

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No, science does not belong to Christians any more than computers belong to atheists, math to pagans or numbers to Muslims.

Any invention and progress belongs to all humanity.
You're missing the fact that God created Science, He created Computers, He created Numbers and everything else that exists. And He gave His people "the Christians" dominion over everything He created. That's why we own Science, Computers and Numbers, thank you very much.

Your so called Pagans and Muslims may have stumbled upon some discoveries, after 6000 years of searching but those things already existed when they were discovered by those people. Your missing the elephant in the room, that being that God created and invented every single piece of technology and science. I'm just reminding you of how pathetic and small minded man is, that it has taken us 6000 years of intense searching to discover a few basic facts.

If you're impressed with man's discoveries and so called achievements, then it just shows how little you know about what God has created and achieved. We haven't even scratched the surface yet, we can't even create the smallest particle of dust and you're impressed by this lack of intelligence lol.
:yawn:
 
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Diamond72

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God created and invented every single piece of technology and science.
Did He create Porn also? Technology and Science is neutral. It is up to use to choose if we want to use what we have to bring praise, honor and glory to God or if we want to do evil and dishonor God.
 
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Job 33:6

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Did He create Porn also? Technology and Science is neutral. It is up to use to choose if we want to use what we have to bring praise, honor and glory to God or if we want to do evil and dishonor God.
This is like asking if God created Satan, the answer is yes. There's nothing in existence that has not been created by God.
 
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Dan1988

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You got your Bible from Pagans? Or you are just anti sematic? In matthew 15 24 Jesus says: "“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” Jesus refers to the pagans as "dogs". So do you reject the Old Testament as being "pagan"? On the day of Pentecost the disciples were very surprised that the gentiles could be saved and receive the Holy Spirit.
I got my Bible from God, His Prophets wrote down everything He told them to write and they passed it all down to me. So you're dead wrong in saying I got my Bible from Pagans.

You misquote and misunderstand what Jesus said in Matt 15:24, I don't have the time to give you a Bile lesson to explain what the verse is saying, so I'll just give you a brief overview. The "lost Sheep of the House of Israel", are Gods chosen people (elect of God), which I am one by the way.
The Church is the Israel of God, the body of Christ has always consisted of Jews, Gentiles and people from every tribe and tongue.

The Oracles of God were given to the Israelites, they enjoyed the blessings of being chosen to be a nation of Priests and Kings. But they don't get any special advantage, when it comes to be chosen for salvation. All nations and ethnic groups are the same in Gods eyes, and He has chosen to save people from every corner of the world before time began. He wrote each individuals name in his book before He created the world.

The lost sheep of the house of Israel, are His elect from among the Israelites. We know that the majority of the Jews Israelites are not Gods elect, because Gods Word always speaks a small remnant when it talks about salvation. The vast majority of Jews and Gentiles are going to the lake of fire, they don't have any hope of being added to Gods book as it was closed before time began.

The Jews falsely believed that they were the chosen people, so they looked down at the Sumerian people and considered them to be sub human like dogs. Jesus was a Jew, and the woman who admitted to being a dog knew that Jesus was a Jew and Jesus didn't argue her point that she is a dog, because that was not in dispute.

The Disciples were all Jews, so they were all raised to believe that they were special. So they were naturally surprised to learn that they were nothing special after all. That's why John;

3:16 for God so loved "THE WORLD", and "NOT JUST THE JEWS", that He gave His only begotten Son, "WHOSOEVER", "NOT JUST THE JEWS" believes in Him, shall have everlasting life.

Jesus came to save that which was lost, Gods chosen people, (His elect) were all born lost because of Adam. So Jesus came as the second Adam to redeem Gods elect only. Jesus said "I don't pray for the world" the world are unbelievers. Jesus doesn't waste time praying for the dead dogs. He only prays for Gods people AKA God's Elect.
 
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Dan1988

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Did He create Porn also? Technology and Science is neutral. It is up to use to choose if we want to use what we have to bring praise, honor and glory to God or if we want to do evil and dishonor God.
As we know Gods people are small in number, so all the evil we see going on in the world is not perpetrated by Gods people. Wicked men serve sin and Satan, God said we can only serve one of two masters, we will love one and hate the other. The Bible only describes two kinds of people, "God's children" and the "children of the Devil".

There is nothing in the bible to suggest that, God adopts any of the Devils children, neither can any child of God become a child of the Devil, just as a Leopard cannot change his spots.

The Devil and His Children use technology for evil, such as pornography and to spread lies. But Gods people use it for good.
 
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Dan1988

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This is like asking if God created Satan, the answer is yes. There's nothing in existence that has not been created by God.
You would be surprised how many Christians hold to this idea that God created everything and then He sat back and let it all unravel as it will. They reject the bible doctrine which confirms that God is sovereign over all things.

Most Christians prefer the God who only get's involved in their lives when they ask Him for help with their finances or health. They don't like the God who demands to be Lord over all of their affairs, that God gets in the way of their plans and He stops them from having sinful fun.
 
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Verv

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I believe Christians have liberty to believe what they want on this issue.

I used to be someone who was just dead set on following a regular, socially acceptable 'scientific' perspective. I am aware that within my own church there are a variety of positions, but now I am aware that there are even those who came to Orthodoxy because they believe that it is definitively evolution denying, which was key point for them...

I have become more sympathetic with this view when I have seen how erroneous science can be, and then how it has to completely correct itself after making large proclamations. The recent issues concerning the AMOC (ocean current) have shown this.

I am comfortable with any conclusion, but I prefer it to at least show some skepticism to scientific orthodoxy.
 
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Diamond72

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David Lamb

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But what you say about oral transmission doesn't take away from the fact that God Himself inspired the human authors of the books of Scripture to write His truth.
 
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Diamond72

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But what you say about oral transmission doesn't take away from the fact that God Himself inspired the human authors of the books of Scripture to write His truth.
It makes it more amazing that a lot of people were involved.
 
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Semper-Fi

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Diamond72 said:
Did He create Porn also? Technology and Science is neutral.

This is like asking if God created Satan, the answer is yes.
That is like saying God made rocks, so he is explicit in the murder of
Able. Then saying Able was justified because God rejected his offering.

Your answer is wrong on so many dark levels.
Lucifer was perfect until he sinned, and he [became] Gods adversary,
and was renamed to reflect the change to Satan/ meaning adversary.

So no: Technically God made Lucifer then he became Satan, Gods enemy
by his actions.. Just like the creation that [Became] tôhû and bôhû in Gen 1.

You think God created Porn? There is no light to this statement.
You are mixing up the [the work of Gods hands] with that of
[the work of mans hands]. Not sure why this is Christian 101.

"Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous” (1 John 3.12).

Gods hands Psalm 102:25 (KJV) Psalm 143:5
Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth:
And the heavens are the work of thy hands.

vs Mans hands Psalm 9:16 (KJV)
The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth:
The wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.

Give them according to their deeds, And according to the wickedness
of their endeavours: Give them after the work of their hands; Render
to them their desert. Psalm 28:4

"The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands."

"And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood
and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell."

Jeremiah 10:3 (KJV)
"For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out
of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe."

Render unto them a recompence, O LORD ,
According to the work of their hands.
x

Isaiah 2:8 (KJV)
their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of
their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:

Micah 5:13 (KJV)
"thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images
out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship
the work of thine hands."

Isaiah 2 and Micah 5 above are prophecies/future soon to be fulfilled.

People think of idols as outdated, but it is more prevalent even today.
Anything you put before God could become an idol. The premier of
American Idol’s sixth season garnered some 37million viewers.

A job could become an idle, just as idleness can become an idol.
Other people can become our idol, or make an idol of ourselves.

Making Idols of Ourselves, the Bible’s warning to each of us “not to
think of himself more highly than he ought to think” (Romans 12:3).
We love to love ourselves far too much. We are, in fact, our own idols.
God knows where pride leads. He shows us throughout His proverbs.

God created man with free will. Man in their free will created evil.

So it is Mans hands that made porn, not Gods. [Why] would you
even say , or even think God created it giving just one verse?

First off it is bad for the planet.

Pornography is one of the most destructive industries in the world,
not because of its impact on the environment, but because of its
impact on the family. The God ordained family structure has been
under attack for a long time now, if you have not noticed this.

What is the link between Pornography and Trafficking ?

Porn is prostitution with the camera going, [the oldest profession]
capable in most peoples living rooms , or use a laptop on the go.
When People become Addicted to Porn, they become slaves to this sin.

God creates porn so man can break one of His commandments?

Acts 7:38 (KJV)
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Isaiah 42:21 (KJV)
The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake;
he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Jesus magnified the law Matthew 5:27 (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time,
Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Matthew 5:28 (KJV)
but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust
after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

2 Peter 2:14 (KJV)
having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling
unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices;
cursed children:

Then there is the Human sex trafficking/slave trade connected to porn.

Job 33:6 said: There's nothing in existence that has not been created by God.

Does Evil exist, did God make evil ? No God did not create evil.
Did King Solomans hands build the Temple, or did Gods hands?

Diamond72 is right when he said
"It is up to use to choose if we want to use what we have to bring praise,
honor and glory to God or if we want to do evil and dishonor God."
-
example

"Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver,
which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men,
and didst commit whoredom with them,.." Ezekiel 16:17

that way above or this way below

Psalm 90:17 1 Peter 4:2
"And let the beauty of the LORD our God be upon us:
And establish thou the work of our hands upon us;
Yea, the work of our hands establish thou it.
-

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have
set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore
choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: Deu30:19

Mankind can create nuclear energy to power towns,
but he also can build nuclear bombs to destroy towns.
 
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Diamond72

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Not sure why this is Christian 101.
Then you should be able to answer the question if it is so easy. Why is their pain, misery and so much evil in the world. If God is a good God why do we have to suffer so much?
 
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Diamond72

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Did King Solomans hands build the Temple, or did Gods hands?
Now we are getting at something. Ezekiel tells us that the Cedars of Lebanon used to build the temple were greater than any tree in the Garden of Eden. The great forests are gone but the Cedar trees are still there today. If we study a tree like Jesus tells us all the life that finds a home in that tree. (Matthew 13 32 33)

‘Who can be compared

to your greatness?

3Look at Assyria, a cedar in Lebanon,

with beautiful branches that shaded the forest.

It towered on high;

its top was among the clouds.

4The waters made it grow;

the deep springs made it tall,

directing their streams all around its base

and sending their channels to all the trees of the field.

5Therefore it towered higher

than all the trees of the field.
1727938957439.png


Its branches multiplied,

and its boughs grew long

as it spread them out

because of the abundant waters.

6All the birds of the air

nested in its branches,

and all the beasts of the field

gave birth beneath its boughs;

all the great nations

lived in its shade.

7It was beautiful in its greatness,

in the length of its limbs,

for its roots extended

to abundant waters.

8The cedars in the garden of God

could not rival it;

the cypressesa could not compare with its branches,

nor the plane treesb match its boughs.

No tree in the garden of God

could compare with its beauty.

9I made it beautiful with its many branches,

the envy of all the trees of Eden,

which were in the garden of God.
 
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