Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I don’t delve into mysticism when it comes to formulating doctrines because you can take all sorts of bits & pieces of scripture out of context and conjure up any doctrine you want. I stick to what is plainly taught in the scriptures and try not to add anything beyond that.This is all very basic entry level type stuff.
Turning water into wine holds profound symbolic meanings, especially within the context of Jesus’s first miracle at the wedding in Cana (John 2:1-12). Let’s explore its significance:
In essence, Jesus takes the ordinary (water) and turns it into something extraordinary (wine), reflecting His desire for us to live out of His overflow and experience spiritual renewal.
- Abundance and Blessing: Jesus transformed water into the finest wine at the wedding feast. This act points to the abundance and blessing that come from our relationship with Him. It’s a sneak preview of the ultimate wedding celebration—the messianic wedding supper of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7–8).
- Prophetic Fulfillment: The wedding in Cana metaphorically fulfills Old Testament scriptures that speak of God’s people (the proverbial bride) and the Bridegroom to come—Jesus Himself. It symbolizes the type of relationship He desires with us.
- Third Day Significance: The miracle occurred on the third day, a significant day in Jewish wedding traditions. The third day represents sanctification and abundance. Jewish weddings often take place on this day, under the stars, symbolizing fruitfulness and descendants like the stars of the sky (Genesis 22:17).
Most translation calls this a "sign" but the KJV uses the word "miracle".
John 2:11 "This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him."
You said a lot more than that and my reply was specifically directed towards your interpretation of the prophecies.I said: NOTHING is better than to worship God. THAT IS MY TESTIMONY.
New wine holds significant prophetic meaning in the Bible, particularly associated with the Holy Spirit. Here are some insights:
So, embrace the new wine—the fresh work of the Holy Spirit—and allow it to overflow in your life!
- Symbol of the Holy Spirit: In the New Testament, Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as “new wine” (Luke 5:37-39). This metaphor emphasizes the transformative power of the Holy Spirit, bringing spiritual renewal and deepening our relationship with God1.
- Renewed Love and Intimacy: The Song of Songs speaks of “love like wine.” In this season, the Spirit is wooing us, inviting us into deeper intimacy with God2.
- Joy and Harvest: New wine represents joy, celebration, and miracles. It’s a taste of Heaven—a move of the Spirit reserved for this hour3.
It’s not cool to doctor(ine) the BibleI don’t delve into mysticism when it comes to formulating doctrines because you can take all sorts of bits & pieces of scripture out of context and conjure up any doctrine you want. I stick to what is plainly taught in the scriptures and try not to add anything beyond that.
The solution here is that the 7 days aren't about material creation. The text is actually describing a 7-day temple inauguration, just like in 1 kings and 2 chronicles. And God resting? Well. He's resting on the throne after the inauguration.I’m not trying to exaggerate, I simply said I’m not aware of any verse that specifically stated that Jesus performed a miracle when He turned water to wine. I’m at work so I didn’t really have an opportunity to search for it, which is why I asked if there was such a verse and you did provide one. So I’m not arguing against it. And in the Big Bang theory matter existed before the Big Bang, in the biblical creation process the universe was created ex nihilo, from nothing in 6 days. Even if the earth did exist before the 6 days of creation, which Exodus 20:11 says it didn’t but even if it did Genesis 1 describes it as formless and void. So you have no life, no plants, no animals, and no ecosystem, and all of that happened in 6 days? According to science that’s just as impossible as the entire universe being created in 6 days. So your argument that the earth existed before the 6 day creation process still doesn’t work because there was no ecosystem without plants. So now you still have the problem of no food available for all the animals to eat unless the plants started bearing fruit in 3 days. Not to mention the fact that on day one there’s no sun yet so the planet would be a frozen block of ice. That’s if you’re actually going by “natural occurrence” with no miracles being used.
If the whole purpose of creating the universe was for man - and to establish his family with those who choose salvation - then what we have is exactly what it should be
The Bible says creation took 6 days.
The universe that we see is how God created it. I think you understand what I mean. I concede there are some slight difference.
My argument is the same however you picture Adam at creation whether he was 13 or 30. 4 foot or 6 foot. I’m sure you would agree he looked a lot older than 1 day
Yeah but you a little difficult to make an assumption any different when an evening and a morning is added before saying day. And exodus 31:17 seals it.
There was no interpretation, I ONLY talked about the term: "New WIne" and what that means. I did not even try to give you a definition of my own but I was using the AI definition for new wine. We were talking about the New Wine that Jesus served at the wedding in the beginning of His ministry. We can look at what AI says about the prophecy if you want.You said a lot more than that and my reply was specifically directed towards your interpretation of the prophecies.
I wonder if at least some of the biblical elohim (disembodied spirits) are other beings from across the universe, who already (well, time is a bit tricky here, because its relative to an observer) died.It's not logical to believe that the entire universe was created for man. Man will never see or be able to utilize most of it for at least millions of years. By that time it will be a much different universe.
I’m sure Jesus will return much much sooner than thatIt's not logical to believe that the entire universe was created for man. Man will never see or be able to utilize most of it for at least millions of years.
Screwed it up? Man has done an amazing job. We’ve utilized the vast resources. We built things that are amazing (like this iPhone I’m on). We’ve set vast lands aside for wildlife.By that time it will be a much different universe. The earth was created for man, and we were created to be caretakers of the earth, though we have mostly screwed that up due to 6000+ years of sin.
I would guess Jesus will return way before we could travel to other planets.The best hope for exploration is possibly to expand to another planet or moon somewhere in the solar system in a few decades or centuries.
SillyIt also says a day is a thousand years. (Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8)
Creation was 6000 years ago. Get over it and try to understand things from that perspective.But the point is that "slight difference" can be extrapolated backwards mathematically and scientifically. And light travels at a set speed and physical matter cannot go faster than that. (There's no way to know if there are any limits in the spirit world.) In any event, any object we see that is more than 7500 (LXX chronology) light-years away had to exist before creation. (Or God had to initiate photons from space several millennia ago that would appear to be from more distant places, but that brings us back to the intentional deception at worst, or a test of faith at best which he knew that most thinking people would reject.) That, at the very least, restricts the 6 days of creation specifically to the earth, a long time after "In the beginning". Sure, astronomers could be orders of magnitude wrong, but not enough to change that, simply because there's enough proof within our own solar system how gravity, radiation and light behave with our standard physics.
Beyond that, I think Genesis 1:11,12 is enough to prove that the third day was longer than 24 hours. Genesis 1:21 is worded a little more ambiguously, but would indicate that the fifth day was also longer than 24 hours. And that brings into contention the phony contradiction of light being created on day one, plants on day three and the sun and moon on day four. This is only a problem in the young earth literalist model. It is not an issue with an earth-centric man's vantage point, but it makes no sense from orbit or anywhere else outside of earth's atmosphere, because it isn't supposed to.
Convenient that you left out an evening and a morning. And the sabbath day that God set aside is a literal day.I agree.
I don't think using a reference point to support observation of the sabbath proves that it is literal.
Well Genesis 1 Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 seem to disagree with you.The solution here is that the 7 days aren't about material creation. The text is actually describing a 7-day temple inauguration, just like in 1 kings and 2 chronicles. And God resting? Well. He's resting on the throne after the inauguration.
God resting:
This is what the Lord says: “Heaven is My throne and the earth is the footstool for My feet. Where then is a house [temple] you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest? Isaiah 66:2 NRSV
[2] All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the Lord.
Isaiah 66:1-2
The Lord is in His holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven; His eyes see, His eyelids test the sons of mankind.
Psalms 11:4
“Now then arise, Lord God, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your might; let Your priests, Lord God, be clothed with salvation, and let Your godly ones rejoice in what is good.
2 Chronicles 6:41
By wisdom a temple is built,
and by understanding it is established;
by knowledge the rooms are filled
with all precious and pleasant riches. (Prov. 24:3-4)
The LORD by wisdom founded the earth;
by understanding he established the heavens;
by his knowledge the deeps broke open,
and the clouds drop down the dew. (Prov. 3:19-20)
Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. John 17:24
Until I find a place for the Lord, A dwelling place for the Mighty One of Jacob.” Let’s go into His dwelling place; Let’s worship at His footstool. Arise, Lord, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. ¶For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it as His dwelling place. “This is My resting place forever; Here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it.
Psalms 132:5, 7-8, 13-14 NIV
And you shall not go outside the entrance of the tent of meeting for seven days, until the days of your ordination are completed, for it will take seven days to ordain you.
Leviticus 8:33
temple priest ordination in 7 days.
And in the eleventh year, in the month of Bul, which is the eighth month, the house was finished in all its parts, and according to all its specifications. He was seven years in building it.
1 Kings 6:38
The Temple constructed in 7 years.
And all the men of Israel assembled to King Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which is the seventh month.
Inauguation feast on the 7th month.
So Solomon held the feast at that time, and all Israel with him, a great assembly, from Lebo-hamath to the Brook of Egypt, before the Lord our God, seven days.
1 Kings 8:65
Temple inauguration feast 7 days.
2 Chronicles 7:8 NIV
[8] So Solomon observed the festival at that time for seven days, and all Israel with him—a vast assembly, people from Lebo Hamath to the Wadi of Egypt.
Temple inauguration, 7-days.
temple dedicated to God on the 7th day of the 7th month, after 7 years, and what does God do?
And I will dwell among the Israelites, and I will not forsake my people Israel.”
1 Kings 6:13
2 Chronicles 7:1 NIV
[1] When Solomon finished praying, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple.
[5] And King Solomon offered a sacrifice of twenty-two thousand head of cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. So the king and all the people dedicated the temple of God.
[8] So Solomon observed the festival at that time for seven days, and all Israel with him—a vast assembly, people from Lebo Hamath to the Wadi of Egypt.
“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house that I have built!
Hear the plea of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place; O hear in heaven your dwelling place; hear and forgive.
1 King 8:27
As the glory of the Lord entered the temple by the gate facing east, the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple. While the man was standing beside me, I heard one speaking to me out of the temple, and he said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever. And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoring and by the dead bodies of their kings at their high places,
Ezekiel 43:4-7
Summary:
God dwells in His temple.
God rests on His throne.
Creation is God's temple, heaven and earth.
Temples in the Bible are inaugurated in 7 days and following the 7 days, God takes up the throne and rests. And that's what happens in Genesis.
Though ultimately this all comes secondary to a basic understanding that the Bible describes ancient near east cosmology.
I don’t do commentaries, especially commentaries generated by a computer program.There was no interpretation, I ONLY talked about the term: "New WIne" and what that means. I did not even try to give you a definition of my own but I was using the AI definition for new wine. We were talking about the New Wine that Jesus served at the wedding in the beginning of His ministry. We can look at what AI says about the prophecy if you want.
The connection between the wedding at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry and the wedding mentioned in Revelation lies in their symbolic significance. Let’s explore both:
In summary, the wedding at Cana foreshadows the joyous union between Christ and His Church, which Revelation portrays as the glorious marriage supper of the Lamb. Both events emphasize God’s desire for celebration, love, and eternal communion with His people.
- The Wedding at Cana (Beginning of Jesus’ Ministry):
- In John 2:1-11, Jesus attended a wedding feast in Cana, where He performed His first recorded miracle by turning water into wine.
- This event marked the beginning of His public ministry and revealed His supernatural power over physical elements.
- The wedding at Cana symbolizes joy, celebration, and God’s desire for His people to experience happiness1.
- It also highlights Jesus’ relationship with joy and His presence at significant life events.
- The Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Revelation):
- Revelation 19:9 describes the “marriage supper of the Lamb,” a future event.
- The Lamb represents Jesus, and the bride symbolizes the Church (believers).
- This feast will occur when the Church (bride) is united with Jesus (bridegroom) in Heaven.
- It signifies the ultimate union, celebration, and eternal fellowship between Christ and His redeemed people2.
- Unlike earthly weddings, this heavenly wedding will surpass all others, uniting heaven and earth in an unbreakable bond.
In Revelation 19:9, the phrase “marriage supper of the Lamb” refers to a future celestial banquet where the Lamb (symbolizing Jesus) unites with His bride (representing the Church). This joyful event signifies the ultimate union between Christ and His redeemed people. Now, let’s explore the connection to “new wine”:
In summary, the concept of “new wine” aligns with the joyous, transformative nature of the marriage supper of the Lamb, emphasizing the eternal blessings awaiting believers in Christ.
- New Wine Symbolism:
- In the New Testament, “new wine” often symbolizes spiritual renewal, transformation, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
- Jesus used the metaphor of new wine in Matthew 9:17, emphasizing that it cannot be put into old wineskins (old religious structures or legalistic traditions).
- New wine represents the freshness, vitality, and abundance of God’s grace and kingdom.
- Application to Revelation 19:9:
- The marriage supper of the Lamb is a grand celebration in Heaven, where the redeemed (the bride) are united with Jesus (the Bridegroom).
- Just as new wine signifies renewal and transformation, this heavenly banquet represents the culmination of God’s redemptive plan.
- The “newness” extends beyond earthly limitations, emphasizing eternal joy, fellowship, and the fulfillment of God’s promises.
- So, when Revelation 19:9 speaks of those “called to the marriage supper,” it implies participation in this glorious, spiritually rich feast.
There is NOTHING I can do or say to explain this any better than AI can explain this.
Creation was 6000 years ago. Get over it and try to understand things from that perspective.
The scriptures don’t make any connection between the wedding at Cana and the wedding of the Lamb, ITS PURELY SPECULATION. If you want to present it as a possibility that’s fine but you can’t present it as a fact because there’s absolutely nothing to support that connection. People have been doing this with the scriptures for two thousand years, even the Gnostics made these kind of mystical claims about hidden meanings by adding up certain numbers contained in the scriptures and claiming that they are representative of having secret meanings. It really is an irresponsible way of interpreting scripture because it’s derived by speculation, not what’s actually stated in the scriptures.The connection between the wedding at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry and the wedding mentioned in Revelation lies in their symbolic significance. Let’s explore both:
In summary, the wedding at Cana foreshadows the joyous union between Christ and His Church, which Revelation portrays as the glorious marriage supper of the Lamb. Both events emphasize God’s desire for celebration, love, and eternal communion with His people.
- The Wedding at Cana (Beginning of Jesus’ Ministry):
- In John 2:1-11, Jesus attended a wedding feast in Cana, where He performed His first recorded miracle by turning water into wine.
- This event marked the beginning of His public ministry and revealed His supernatural power over physical elements.
- The wedding at Cana symbolizes joy, celebration, and God’s desire for His people to experience happiness1.
- It also highlights Jesus’ relationship with joy and His presence at significant life events.
- The Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Revelation):
- Revelation 19:9 describes the “marriage supper of the Lamb,” a future event.
- The Lamb represents Jesus, and the bride symbolizes the Church (believers).
- This feast will occur when the Church (bride) is united with Jesus (bridegroom) in Heaven.
- It signifies the ultimate union, celebration, and eternal fellowship between Christ and His redeemed people2.
- Unlike earthly weddings, this heavenly wedding will surpass all others, uniting heaven and earth in an unbreakable bond.
While the two events aren’t directly linked in the Scriptures, some Christians draw parallels between the Wedding at Cana and the ultimate wedding feast in heaven. Both involve celebration, transformation, and the revelation of God’s glory. So, while it’s not explicit, the connection is more symbolic and theological than literalIf you want to present it as a possibility that’s fine
This is no secret and there is nothing hidden. In Hebrew, gematria assigns numerical values to letters. For instance, the word אב (father) has a value of three (1 + 2 = 3). When two words or phrases share the same numeric value, it may indicate a connection.by adding up certain numbers contained in the scriptures
Adam in the Garden of Eden was created 6,000 years ago. We know this from the generations. Genesis 2: 7Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.d Genesis 2:4a These are the generations...Bible never says that creation was 6000 years ago.
No, we dont know that:Adam in the Garden of Eden was created 6,000 years ago. We know this from the generations.
No they don't. They are in agreement.Well Genesis 1 Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 seem to disagree with you.
The earth, the seas, and everything in them are material creations.No they don't. They are in agreement.
Exodus 20:11 NRSV
[11] For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and consecrated it.
Isaiah 66:1-2 NRSV
[1] Thus says the Lord: Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is my resting place? [2] All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the Lord. But this is the one to whom I will look, to the humble and contrite in spirit, who trembles at my word.
Until I find a place for the Lord, A dwelling place for the Mighty One of Jacob.” Let’s go into His dwelling place; Let’s worship at His footstool. Arise, Lord, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. ¶For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it as His dwelling place. “This is My resting place forever; Here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it.
Psalms 132:5, 7-8, 13-14 NIV
2 Chronicles 7:8 NIV
[8] So Solomon observed the festival at that time for seven days, and all Israel with him—a vast assembly, people from Lebo Hamath to the Wadi of Egypt.
In the Bible, temple inaugurations occur in 7-days. And at the end, God rests on the throne.
The same thing happens in Genesis. And Exodus 20:11 as an example, is just repeating this.
But the point is that, it's not about ex nihilo, objects appearing out of nothing. Rather it's written in terms of ex materia and God inaugurating His cosmic temple. Then on the 7th day resting on the throne.
Ultimately, it has nothing to do with science. It's about God beginning His reign from the temple throne room. Just like in Jeremiah 26:1 and 27:1.
They're created in an ex materia fashion, through an ancient near east cosmology and context. Which is to say that, the 7-day temple inauguration isn't about anything scientific. It's written in an ancient near east context and describes an ex materia temple inauguration through the lense of ancient near east cosmology.The earth, the seas, and everything in them are material creations.
Every time God rests in the Bible, it's always on the throne and in His place of dwelling (a temple). Psalm 132, Isaiah 66:1-2, 2 chronicles 6:41, Ezekiel 43:4-7. Etc.The earth, the seas, and everything in them are material creations.
Here we go with the mysticism interpretations where people try to make connections to hidden meanings that aren’t actually there in the scriptures. I don’t buy into this type of nonsense. Genesis 1, Genesis 2, and Exodus 20:11 don’t mention anything about God’s temple, they mention the creation of things that didn’t exist previously. Are you going to say that God didn’t create the earth? Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 says that He created it in 6 days. Genesis 2:1-3 says on the 7th day He rested from all that he created and made. Created means ex nihilo, made means ex materia. So not only did He rest from what He made out of existing matter but He also rested from what He created from nothing.They're created in an ex materia fashion, through an ancient near east cosmology and context. Which is to say that, the 7-day temple inauguration isn't about anything scientific. It's written in an ancient near east context and describes an ex materia temple inauguration through the lense of ancient near east cosmology.
And that's why it's 7-days long with God resting at the end. Just like Solomons temple, inaugurated in 7 days with God resting at the end, if you're familiar with 1 kings and 2 chronicles.
It's the same thing.
Until I find a place for the Lord, A dwelling place for the Mighty One of Jacob.” Let’s go into His dwelling place; Let’s worship at His footstool. Arise, Lord, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. ¶For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it as His dwelling place. “This is My resting place forever; Here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it.
Psalms 132:5, 7-8, 13-14 NIV
2 Chronicles 6:41
Now then arise, Lord God, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your might; let Your priests, Lord God, be clothed with salvation, and let Your godly ones rejoice in what is good.
2 Chronicles 7:1 NIV
[1] When Solomon finished praying, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple.
[5] And King Solomon offered a sacrifice of twenty-two thousand head of cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. So the king and all the people dedicated the temple of God.
[8] So Solomon observed the festival at that time for seven days, and all Israel with him—a vast assembly, people from Lebo Hamath to the Wadi of Egypt.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?