Dan the deacon
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QFTMy salvation experience is similar to yours. But I think the narrow way is in Christ's atonement. Trusting that his death on the cross in your behalf is your only grounds of acceptance with God.
Many trust in their faith to save them. Thinking it is a condition they met to save themselves. But true faith abandons self and looks beyond to Christ's death on the cross. Holding that up to God as your only grounds of acceptance by him. And not holding up any form of self-righteousness, whether choosing to believe, or partaking of sacraments to save yourself.
Yet again, my friends, we cannot forget Jesus' warning in Matthew, when he said that many will call Him Lord, but He will turn to them and say that He never knew them. This strong suggests that many Christians will be sadly disappointed when they stand before God.
I believe I am a born again Christian. I came to a point in my life where The Holy Spirit moved upon me, I recognized it, I acknowledged it, I was convicted of my sin BY the Holy Spirit, I was sorry, I desired to get to know this being - this person - this Holy Spirit, He accepted me, and I was born again. I went to bed that night full of fire and having a heart for God I never thought would come into my life in my dizziest daydreams. I felt so cool the next day at school because I personally had met the one true GOD almighty! I wondered who else around me possibly had this rebirth, and I had a yearning for everyone I knew to come to this same knowledge, to experience God personally in that way which would change their lives forever.
Regardless of my own testimony, how many Christians are actually going to find the narrow way? I wonder myself, "Am I walking along the path that Jesus himself calls the 'narrow way that leads into eternal life'?"
What about lukewarmness? Jesus said, I would rather you be hot or cold, for if you are lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth.
What about intentional sin? If I step on your toe and then apologize, and you say it's okay, but then I do it again, and you forgive me again, and I continue to do it because I know I can get away with it, what of the "narrow way" then?
1 Corinthians 6
(NLT) 9Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
What about born again Christians who continue to walk in some of these ways? Obviously the actions listed above are not in accordance to the "narrow way". I will be honest. I am guilty of at least one of these wrong doings. I know I ought to repent of it, maybe I struggle with it and maybe I have not yet been corrected of it. But when I do it, I know I am committing a wrong doing that is not in line with the "narrow way" which has led me to start this thread to seek out how all of this comes together.
1 Corinthians 3 Paul writes...
(NLT) 10Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.
12Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 14If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.
16Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 17God will destroy anyone who destroys this temple. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
In verse 15 above, it says we will saved, but we will be like someone escaping through the flames. Could this be the consequence to our sin even after we have been born again? Is the "narrow way" simply BEING born again? Or is the narrow way being born again AND building with a "material" that survives the fire so that we are rewarded, like in verses 13 and 14 above?
I doubt if heaven allows adultery, stealing, bearing false witness, and things like that.I believe I am a born again Christian. I came to a point in my life where The Holy Spirit moved upon me, I recognized it, I acknowledged it, I was convicted of my sin BY the Holy Spirit, I was sorry, I desired to get to know this being - this person - this Holy Spirit, He accepted me, and I was born again. I went to bed that night full of fire and having a heart for God I never thought would come into my life in my dizziest daydreams. I felt so cool the next day at school because I personally had met the one true GOD almighty! I wondered who else around me possibly had this rebirth, and I had a yearning for everyone I knew to come to this same knowledge, to experience God personally in that way which would change their lives forever.
Regardless of my own testimony, how many Christians are actually going to find the narrow way? I wonder myself, "Am I walking along the path that Jesus himself calls the 'narrow way that leads into eternal life'?"
What about lukewarmness? Jesus said, I would rather you be hot or cold, for if you are lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth.
What about intentional sin? If I step on your toe and then apologize, and you say it's okay, but then I do it again, and you forgive me again, and I continue to do it because I know I can get away with it, what of the "narrow way" then?
1 Corinthians 6
(NLT) 9Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
What about born again Christians who continue to walk in some of these ways? Obviously the actions listed above are not in accordance to the "narrow way". I will be honest. I am guilty of at least one of these wrong doings. I know I ought to repent of it, maybe I struggle with it and maybe I have not yet been corrected of it. But when I do it, I know I am committing a wrong doing that is not in line with the "narrow way" which has led me to start this thread to seek out how all of this comes together.
1 Corinthians 3 Paul writes...
(NLT) 10Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.
12Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 14If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.
16Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 17God will destroy anyone who destroys this temple. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
In verse 15 above, it says we will saved, but we will be like someone escaping through the flames. Could this be the consequence to our sin even after we have been born again? Is the "narrow way" simply BEING born again? Or is the narrow way being born again AND building with a "material" that survives the fire so that we are rewarded, like in verses 13 and 14 above?
The problem is, you take credit for your salvation and rob God of his glory when you make believing a condition for salvation. This is nothing more than salvation for the self-righteous and not salvation for sinners who cannot save themselves. Grace saves those who cannot do anything to save themselves and instead look beyond, giving up on their own efforts, trusting in Christ alone, where salvation actually happens.
I believe I am a born again Christian. I came to a point in my life where The Holy Spirit moved upon me, I recognized it, I acknowledged it, I was convicted of my sin BY the Holy Spirit, I was sorry, I desired to get to know this being - this person - this Holy Spirit, He accepted me, and I was born again. I went to bed that night full of fire and having a heart for God I never thought would come into my life in my dizziest daydreams. I felt so cool the next day at school because I personally had met the one true GOD almighty! I wondered who else around me possibly had this rebirth, and I had a yearning for everyone I knew to come to this same knowledge, to experience God personally in that way which would change their lives forever.
Regardless of my own testimony, how many Christians are actually going to find the narrow way? I wonder myself, "Am I walking along the path that Jesus himself calls the 'narrow way that leads into eternal life'?"
What about lukewarmness? Jesus said, I would rather you be hot or cold, for if you are lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth.
What about intentional sin? If I step on your toe and then apologize, and you say it's okay, but then I do it again, and you forgive me again, and I continue to do it because I know I can get away with it, what of the "narrow way" then?
1 Corinthians 6
(NLT) 9Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
What about born again Christians who continue to walk in some of these ways? Obviously the actions listed above are not in accordance to the "narrow way". I will be honest. I am guilty of at least one of these wrong doings. I know I ought to repent of it, maybe I struggle with it and maybe I have not yet been corrected of it. But when I do it, I know I am committing a wrong doing that is not in line with the "narrow way" which has led me to start this thread to seek out how all of this comes together.
1 Corinthians 3 Paul writes...
(NLT) 10Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.
12Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 14If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.
16Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 17God will destroy anyone who destroys this temple. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
In verse 15 above, it says we will saved, but we will be like someone escaping through the flames. Could this be the consequence to our sin even after we have been born again? Is the "narrow way" simply BEING born again? Or is the narrow way being born again AND building with a "material" that survives the fire so that we are rewarded, like in verses 13 and 14 above?
The problem is you make salvation the result of works. The bible makes works the result of salvation. You know a person is born again and saved by the fruit they bear. The Pharisees tried it your way and failed.It's our choice to be good or not be good, so yes, we depend on ourselves for that. Christ saves us if we do that/do our best to truly follow him. Christ actually said we have to be good, in spite of what you say. Being good shows we DO trust in Christ, the others, it's just talk no walk, just say it and it's so.
Now to drive that home, read the following on just what Christ said, and please explain why Christ is wrong when he says we DO have to do something, and why you are right in saying we don't? I'll await your answer to that specific question.
John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
Here is the KJV:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
"DO" is the key word to subject here.
I answered you original post. It should show up somewhere above this reply.You didn't answer the questions....very bad sign, but thanks just the same.
I answered you original post. It should show up somewhere above this reply.
David,The problem is you make salvation the result of works. The bible makes works the result of salvation. You know a person is born again and saved by the fruit they bear. The Pharisees tried it your way and failed.
Pretty much this , many people don't care about stealing glory from God but it's sin . Anything you add from yourself is taking away from him .The problem is, you take credit for your salvation and rob God of his glory when you make believing a condition for salvation. This is nothing more than salvation for the self-righteous and not salvation for sinners who cannot save themselves. Grace saves those who cannot do anything to save themselves and instead look beyond, giving up on their own efforts, trusting in Christ alone, where salvation actually happens.
It remains though, any act or even choice to not resist = self-righteousness and taking God's glory in salvation upon one's own self. If you hear the gospel and believe, God has saved you. If you decide to believe, you saved yourself.David,
I agree with you for the most part but start with a prior step.
A nonbeliever first step is not doing something noble, righteous, worthy of a reward, or “work” like joining or even accepting God/Christ but is motivated by carnal reasoning (selfish reasons). But the nonbeliever can wimp out, give up and surrendering to his enemy (God) while God is still his enemy. If the nonbeliever was really macho, he would be a good soldier, hang in there, take the punishment he fully deserves, pay the piper and not bother God further with his presence. The little “faith” the nonbeliever needs is in hoping for undeserved mercy from his enemy (God), even though he knows he should be tortured and killed for his previous war crimes he is willing to humbly accept pure charity. At the moment of the nonbeliever’s surrendering he still will be hating his enemy, but the moment after his enemy (God) is now allowed to showers him with unbelievable gifts. This is like the prodigal son, who because of his own actions got in a situation which brought him to his senses, in this dead state (dead by Christ’s definition) he turned to the father, but not out of love for the father, but for selfish reasons, just wanting to have some kind of life, yet the father showers him with gifts.
What "glory" or self righteousness do you see in the prodigal son's return to the father? All the glory and salvation of the prodigal son goes to the father and not to the undeserving son. The son takes nothing away from the father.It remains though, any act or even choice to not resist = self-righteousness and taking God's glory in salvation upon one's own self. If you hear the gospel and believe, God has saved you. If you decide to believe, you saved yourself.
The prodigal represents a believer who repents. He was always a son even in his wantonness.What "glory" or self righteousness do you see in the prodigal son's return to the father? All the glory and salvation of the prodigal son goes to the father and not to the undeserving son. The son takes nothing away from the father.
That is fine if you think that, but I am using him just as an example and pointing out how it could work very similar for the non-Christian like it worked for the prodigal son, so the question still stands: If the prodigal son did nothing "glorious" or self righteous and the glory of the result all goes to God, then it could work the same way for the nonbeliever.The prodigal represents a believer who repents. He was always a son even in his wantonness.
If the prodigal would in this case depict salvation by works, self-righteousness.That is fine if you think that, but I am using him just as an example and pointing out how it could work very similar for the non-Christian like it worked for the prodigal son, so the question still stands: If the prodigal son did nothing "glorious" or self righteous and the glory of the result all goes to God, then it could work the same way for the nonbeliever.
You are saying the person cannot wimp out, give up or surrender without being some what glorious, yet that is exactly what the prodigal son did and he is not glorious or self righteous.
He does not?If the prodigal would in this case depict salvation by works, self-righteousness.
If the prodigal son depicts salvation, then salvation is by works, not grace. The prodigal was already a son, born of the father, without any choice in the matter. Just as we have no choice in the matter of salvation.He does not?
He for selfish reasons turns (being selfish is not righteous) and turning is not work (worthy of some reward).
I suggest that you look at Jesus’ teachings about judgement if you’re concerned about how you’re going to be judged.
Somewhat surprisingly, Jesus doesn’t base judgements on “sin,” as Christians normally think of it, i.e. as violations of moral purity. Mostly he talks about people being judged for rejecting him and his teaching, or for not showing “fruit,” which I understand as not loving and forgiving people as he taught. Where he does base it on what you might call sin, it’s for consistently abusing, or not helping, others. [There’s one exception to this: Mat 5:30. However that passage is obvious hyperbole.]
Jesus also never uses the words “holy” or “pure” of people, nor sets that up as an ideal. (Indeed moral purity is the Pharisees’ goal.)
My understanding is that both Jesus and Paul saw people’s lives in terms of a fundamental direction. It’s not like Santa who counts how many times you’ve been bad or good, but whether you’re a follower of Jesus, which means whether you love God and others. In my opinion, Paul’s faith isn’t just intellectual belief, but this fundamental orientation of your life. (Note that the Greek “pistis” can be translated either as faith or faithfulness.) Hence Paul's faith and Jesus' talking about being his follower, are the same thing. Faith does show itself in fruit, as Jesus makes clear, but expecting people to show their love is different than counting violations of the rules.
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