How narrow is the "narrow way"?

[συνείδησις]

And this seems to be the meaning of the number of the beast. For it says that 666 is the number of man and 666 is 2/3 of 1000. Meaning that for every 1000, 2/3 are destroyed. Though I can't say for sure this is the whole meaning of the number, it goes without saying that mankind is meant for destruction and they are the majority.

Add to this that 1/3 of the angels fell, which the 1/3 of men who are saved may be their "replacement".

 

[Valetic]

Add to this that 1/3 of the angels fell, which the 1/3 of men who are saved may be their "replacement".

Wrong. The bible doesn't speak of this whatsoever. It's just a theory.

 

[Call me Nic]

If this is a condition for salvation, you will trust in your meeting the condition rather than trusting in Christ.

I'm trusting in me meeting the condition if I trust in the Lord and call upon him name? You are trying to say that a person that believes in Christ and calls upon his name according to scripture is trusting in meeting the condition required, and that makes no sense. A person is simply being obedient to what the Lord says must happen for a man to be saved if they do what I posted from scripture.

The Lord judges the hearts, and knows if a person is feigning faith. But a person who genuinely calls upon the name of the Lord is doing so out of faith, which causes him to receive everlasting life from the Lord.

 

[Dave L]

I'm trusting in me meeting the condition if I trust in the Lord and call upon him name? You are trying to say that a person that believes in Christ and calls upon his name according to scripture is trusting in meeting the condition required, and that makes no sense. A person is simply being obedient to what the Lord says must happen for a man to be saved if they do what I posted from scripture.

The Lord judges the hearts, and knows if a person is feigning faith. But a person who genuinely calls upon the name of the Lord is doing so out of faith, which causes him to receive everlasting life from the Lord.

If it is a condition you meet in order to be saved, you trust in your own self-righteousness and not in Christ.

 

[Call me Nic]

If it is a condition you meet in order to be saved, you trust in your own self-righteousness and not in Christ.

Again, this is an overcomplication of a very simple issue.

A person does the following: They read Romans 10:9-10, and they believe the words written, and then they call upon the name of the Lord like in Romans 10:13, asking Christ to save them.

You say to them: Well... are you sure you're not just trusting in your faith to save you?

Then they say: I trust that I have faith in Christ.

Then you say: You're trusting your own righteousness! You're trusting your faith to save you and you're not trusting Christ!

Then they say: But I know that I trust Christ.

Then you say: No you don't if you don't trust Christ.

Then I say: I told you this overcomplicated everything.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Regardless of my own testimony, how many Christians are actually going to find the narrow way? I wonder myself, "Am I walking along the path that Jesus himself calls the 'narrow way that leads into eternal life'?"

I've wondered the same thing, and some don't even believe there is a narrow way, or their viewpoint, in affect, completely does away with the "narrow way" scripture. Some feel they can sin as a lifestyle, and some even without asking forgiveness, and get away with it, and I assure you, some of those will do just that, the very reason they buy into OSAS, faith only idea. As long as that happens we'll lose many to the broad way they have chosen.

Have you trusted in Christ to save you, or is your faith that your salvation contingent upon your ongoing performance, in which case you would be putting your faith in your performance to qualify you to be saved.

Christians on these forums are largely divided on this issue. As I see it, salvation is a done deal for those who have trusted in Christ.

Nothing personal, I only quote bsbsr's post because it represents just what I'm talking about, and what many think, in that there is, in affect, no narrow way they have to follow. They would call that works based salvation, and to them I pose the question, do you all have a standard answer to the "narrow way" (acting like you should, doing good, and not doing bad) scripture, I mean how can there even be a narrow way if it's done deal? (Of which it is not.)

 

[Kenny'sID]

If it is a condition you meet in order to be saved, you trust in your own self-righteousness and not in Christ.

It's our choice to be good or not be good, so yes, we depend on ourselves for that. Christ saves us if we do that/do our best to truly follow him. Christ actually said we have to be good, in spite of what you say. Being good shows we DO trust in Christ, the others, it's just talk no walk, just say it and it's so.

Now to drive that home, read the following on just what Christ said, and please explain why Christ is wrong when he says we DO have to do something, and why you are right in saying we don't? I'll await your answer to that specific question.

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Here is the KJV:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

"DO" is the key word to subject here.

 

[συνείδησις]

Wrong. The bible doesn't speak of this whatsoever. It's just a theory.

Not explicitly mentioned, but it can be reasonably assumed. As reasonable as the theory that 1/3 of humanity is saved.

And his tail drags the third of the stars of the heaven, and he casts them to the earth. And the dragon stands before the woman about to give birth, that whenever she should give birth he should devour her child. Revelation 12:4​

 

[Dave L]

It's our choice to be good or not be good, so yes, we depend on ourselves for that. Christ saves us if we do that/do our best to truly follow him. Christ actually said we have to be good, in spite of what you say. Being good shows we DO trust in Christ, the others, it's just talk no walk, just say it and it's so.

Now to drive that home, read the following on just what Christ said, and please explain why Christ is wrong when he says we DO have to do something, and why you are right in saying we don't? I'll await your answer to that specific question.

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Here is the KJV:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

"DO" is the key word to subject here.

The problem is, you take credit for your salvation and rob God of his glory when you make believing a condition for salvation. This is nothing more than salvation for the self-righteous and not salvation for sinners who cannot save themselves. Grace saves those who cannot do anything to save themselves and instead look beyond, giving up on their own efforts, trusting in Christ alone, where salvation actually happens.

 

[Call me Nic]

The problem is, you take credit for your salvation and rob God of his glory when you make believing a condition for salvation. This is nothing more than salvation for the self-righteous and not salvation for sinners who cannot save themselves. Grace saves those who cannot do anything to save themselves and instead look beyond, giving up on their own efforts, trusting in Christ alone, where salvation actually happens.

Faith is faith to the one who trusts in grace. You cannot separate faith and grace as concepts, otherwise you have faith that doesn't believe the right thing, or you have grace that doesn't get received through faith (Romans 5:2, Ephesians 2:8, Romans 4:5).

Grace is the gift of salvation from God, faith is the method of receiving that gift.

 

[Dave L]

Faith is faith to the one who trusts in grace. You cannot separate faith and grace as concepts, otherwise you have faith that doesn't believe the right thing, or you have grace that doesn't get received through faith (Romans 5:2, Ephesians 2:8, Romans 4:5).

If faith is a condition for salvation you must meet, it is not biblical faith, but a self-righteous bending of your mind to think a certain way.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Faith is faith to the one who trusts in grace. You cannot separate faith and grace as concepts, otherwise you have faith that doesn't believe the right thing, or you have grace that doesn't get received through faith (Romans 5:2, Ephesians 2:8, Romans 4:5).

Grace is the gift of salvation from God, faith is the method of receiving that gift.

Grace and faith are indeed deeply linked (Ephesians 2.8).

 

[Call me Nic]

If faith is a condition for salvation you must meet, it is not biblical faith, but a self-righteous bending of your mind to think a certain way.

See, I don't even understand the point you're trying to make. Are you saying that a person can be saved without faith?

My entire point is that a person's faith is NOT faith in himself, otherwise it wouldn't be biblical faith, because a person's faith must be rooted in the grace of God. To have faith is to trust Christ, and to trust Christ is by very definition to not trust oneself. Therefore, by this very basis, faith is indeed a condition for salvation in the fact that you must trust Christ and Christ alone for it.

 

[Dave L]

See, I don't even understand the point you're trying to make. Are you saying that a person can be saved without faith?

My entire point is that a person's faith is NOT faith in himself, otherwise it wouldn't be biblical faith, because a person's faith must be rooted in the grace of God. To have faith is to trust Christ, and to trust Christ is by very definition to not trust oneself. Therefore, by this very basis, faith is indeed a condition for salvation in the fact that you must trust Christ and Christ alone for it.

Grace is Unconditional. Conditions = gospel becomes law = salvation by works = self-righteousness.

 

[faroukfarouk]

See, I don't even understand the point you're trying to make. Are you saying that a person can be saved without faith?

My entire point is that a person's faith is NOT faith in himself, otherwise it wouldn't be biblical faith, because a person's faith must be rooted in the grace of God. To have faith is to trust Christ, and to trust Christ is by very definition to not trust oneself. Therefore, by this very basis, faith is indeed a condition for salvation in the fact that you must trust Christ and Christ alone for it.

Hebrews 11 ('by faith...', over and over) would confirm it.

 

[Call me Nic]

Grace is Unconditional. Conditions = gospel becomes law = salvation by works = self-righteousness.

But how do you receive that grace if you don't have faith in it? You can't receive something you don't believe or trust in. This is why God causes us to choose just as the Israelites chose to obey him (Deuteronomy 30:19), and those that choose not to obey the gospel of Christ from the heart (Romans 6:17) are punished by the wrath of God, because they know not God through Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8).

I agree with you that the grace of God that gives salvation (Titus 2:11) is unconditional and freely given unto all men. The rub is that we are given the choice to believe on Christ in order to receive the free gift (John 1:12, Ephesians 1:13). So a person can hold knowledge of Christ and the fact that he died and rose again, but unless he trusts the Lord and his gospel, that through the name of Christ he should be saved (Acts of the Apostles 4:12), he did not know God, therefore being condemned by not obeying the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21, John 6:40). Otherwise, what you're suggesting is a strange form of universalism by saying that faith doesn't play any sort of part in receiving the free gift of God.

 

[Valetic]

Not explicitly mentioned, but it can be reasonably assumed.

You have given no evidence that it can be reasonably assumed but should only be theorized.

As reasonable as the theory that 1/3 of humanity is saved.

Zechariah 13

(KJV) 7Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

- This looks to be a prophecy of the Messiah to come.

8And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

- This verse exactly fits the millennial prophecies from my research on it.

9And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

- This also fits millennial prophecy and based on my research has not yet been fulfilled.

And his tail drags the third of the stars of the heaven, and he casts them to the earth. And the dragon stands before the woman about to give birth, that whenever she should give birth he should devour her child. Revelation 12:4

Again, this is not evidence of your theory.

Angels and humans are not the same creatures. If God wants to replace the fallen angels, He could simply create more, but we have no evidence of this happening or to happen later.

Angels and humans are not designed to serve God the same way. Angels and humans serve different purposes in life. There is no replacement for fallen angels other than to replace them with angels. In the same way, a human cannot be replaced with an angel. We are two totally different creatures.

 

[συνείδησις]

You have given no evidence that it can be reasonably assumed but should only be theorized.



Zechariah 13

(KJV) 7Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

- This looks to be a prophecy of the Messiah to come.

8And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

- This verse exactly fits the millennial prophecies from my research on it.

9And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

- This also fits millennial prophecy and based on my research has not yet been fulfilled.



Again, this is not evidence of your theory.

Angels and humans are not the same creatures. If God wants to replace the fallen angels, He could simply create more, but we have no evidence of this happening or to happen later.

Angels and humans are not designed to serve God the same way. Angels and humans serve different purposes in life. There is no replacement for fallen angels other than to replace them with angels. In the same way, a human cannot be replaced with an angel. We are two totally different creatures.

OK, like whatever. I'm not going to get uptight about it like you. It's just a theory, like the 1/3 of humanity being saved is. .

 

[Basil the Great]

Yet again, my friends, we cannot forget Jesus' warning in Matthew, when he said that many will call Him Lord, but He will turn to them and say that He never knew them. This strong suggests that many Christians will be sadly disappointed when they stand before God.

 

[Chinchilla]

I believe I am a born again Christian. I came to a point in my life where The Holy Spirit moved upon me, I recognized it, I acknowledged it, I was convicted of my sin BY the Holy Spirit, I was sorry, I desired to get to know this being - this person - this Holy Spirit, He accepted me, and I was born again. I went to bed that night full of fire and having a heart for God I never thought would come into my life in my dizziest daydreams. I felt so cool the next day at school because I personally had met the one true GOD almighty! I wondered who else around me possibly had this rebirth, and I had a yearning for everyone I knew to come to this same knowledge, to experience God personally in that way which would change their lives forever.

Regardless of my own testimony, how many Christians are actually going to find the narrow way? I wonder myself, "Am I walking along the path that Jesus himself calls the 'narrow way that leads into eternal life'?"

What about lukewarmness? Jesus said, I would rather you be hot or cold, for if you are lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth.

What about intentional sin? If I step on your toe and then apologize, and you say it's okay, but then I do it again, and you forgive me again, and I continue to do it because I know I can get away with it, what of the "narrow way" then?

1 Corinthians 6

(NLT) 9Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

What about born again Christians who continue to walk in some of these ways? Obviously the actions listed above are not in accordance to the "narrow way". I will be honest. I am guilty of at least one of these wrong doings. I know I ought to repent of it, maybe I struggle with it and maybe I have not yet been corrected of it. But when I do it, I know I am committing a wrong doing that is not in line with the "narrow way" which has led me to start this thread to seek out how all of this comes together.

1 Corinthians 3 Paul writes...

(NLT) 10Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.

12Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 14If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

16Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 17God will destroy anyone who destroys this temple. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

In verse 15 above, it says we will saved, but we will be like someone escaping through the flames. Could this be the consequence to our sin even after we have been born again? Is the "narrow way" simply BEING born again? Or is the narrow way being born again AND building with a "material" that survives the fire so that we are rewarded, like in verses 13 and 14 above?

Very narrow at least in my country . I heared that less than 1% of people in Italy think of themselfes as being born again , I'd say my country would be around 1% aswell at best , however Poland declared as only one country in world Christ as thier king so we somehow are kingdom now so I don't know what to think about that .