How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

[Notrash]

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent
heat?

In Job 38:33 the Heavens are a term used for the ordinances of God from Heaven and the "earth" is the term for the domain of those ordinances.

The people to whom Isaiah was written to were under the Mosaic covenant ordinances and domain [Heaven and earth]. It was prophesied to them that there would be New ordiances and domain [heaven and earth] The new ordinances came through the new prophet, [deut 18; Acts 3:22-24; John 6:56] Jesus as speaking the very words of God. As prophesied in Deut 5 and 18, They heard God's voice again from the heavens at Jesus baptism.

In 2 Peter 3, Peter is referring to Deut 32:22 and Mose's predictions for the end of the mosaic covenant ordinances [mountains] and law. With it's 'removal' the ordinances of the New covenant administered by Christ were revealed to be true and have the favor of the Living God.

Paul quotes Is 65:2 in Romans 10 near the end of the chapter. He's indicating the time of the last generation of that covenant.

 

[strangertoo]

Job38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

The ordinances OF heaven are OF heaven , that does not means they are the heavens...

As for them changing, the old covenant was given only to ancient Israel and God told them they would not keep it even before they agreed voluntarily to do so... no-one else agreed to it ...

as for the new covenant , God states it is only with those whose fathers broke the old covenant , with the more modern descendants of the House of Israel and the Jews [House of Judah]- [Heb 8:8-12, Jer 31:31-34]

so what about the non-Israelite gentiles, billions of them , they have no covenant with God at all ... according to you they have no heaven or earth , but I think that it not so in their eyes ...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by strangertoo but Jesus did not unite the two nations of Israel yet ...

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This is a spiritual gathering together, not a literal one.

Ezek. 37:21. "And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22. And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:"

The literal nation of Israel was but a type or picture of the spiritual one which was to come. Though the children of Israel were literally dislodged from their literal homeland and scattered throughout other literal nations, their ingathering back into their promised land was a spiritual one. We should not be decieved by the gathering of some 'so called', Jews back into Israel in 1948.
This was by the prearrangement of mere men, not by God.

Great post

...

 

[strangertoo]

Originally Posted by strangertoo but Jesus did not unite the two nations of Israel yet ...

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Great post

...

It is both :-

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

but again I say, how do you IGNORE all the scripture I posted ????

 

[parousia70]

.

Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

HI!
So are you saying Christ already came as a thief to those 1st century people in Sardis that did not watch?

 

[strangertoo]

HI!
So are you saying Christ already came as a thief to those 1st century people in Sardis that did not watch?

No, I am not... Jesus in the anointed king of Israel, the Christ, the Messiah , whose task is to re-unite Israel into a kingdom of priests :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

these and many other things have not hapened yet, so it is wise to understand what the 'Christ' is, particularly as Jesus says that the false Christ must come and be worshipped by the whole world {mass religion fallen away , 2Thess 2 , the man of sin leading it , Satan cast into the earth as a man who will die fro blasphemy after declaring himself to be god in the still-part-buried temple in Jerusalem , having walked through the now-walled-up East Gate to Temple Mount from the Mount of Olives , same place Jesus will later appear ...

so it is patently obvious these things have not occurred , we still await the final Antichrist and those events are before the return of Jesus to take ONLY the FEW [Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14, rev 7:3-8] saints of the new covenant [Heb 8:8-12]

but consider this , Jesus also says :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

yet the saints will rule on earth , not in heaven :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

thus the kingdom come to all but the hearts and minds of the few saints is in the new earth :-

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

so we shall not see Jesus as king of the king-priests of Israel of the kingdom of God until the new earth...

 

[Notrash]

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

yet the saints will rule on earth , not in heaven :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

thus the kingdom come to all but the hearts and minds of the few saints is in the new earth :-

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

so we shall not see Jesus as king of the king-priests of Israel of the kingdom of God until the new earth...

What Ordinances and domain were the people under to whom the prophets wrote the words?
They were not written to the church, but prophesied to people under the mosaic covenant ordinances and domain {"old' heaven and earth]

Just as Hebrews says that the "New" covenant is called NEW only in contrast with the mosaic covenant [book of Deut; see Deut 5:2-3] being called "OLD", so also the Ordinances and domain of the New covenant are called "NEW" in contrast with the mosaic covenant Heavens and Earth. The mosaic covenant was prophesied to be temporal. Otherwise, the 'new' covenant is the Everlasting covenant of Mercy [the seed promised to Eve] and is called "my covenant" as it is passed through Noah and Abraham.

Moaic Covenant:
OLD Covenant:
Old Jerusalem,
Old Ordinances: [Heavens]
Old land domain of judea; [earth]
Old Elements,
Old Mountains,
Old Wine
Stoney heart [still under condemnation from the Garden]

Everlasting Covenant
New [in contrast with mosaic covenant, and new in contrast with original Eden's ordinances] Covenant.
New Jerusalem !!
New ordiances of Christ [Heavens]
New Elements and mountains,
New Domain [earth] of the indwelt life and body [even referred to as "earth" in Col 3:5]

New Wine,
New Cloth,
New Creature,
New zion a REJOICING
New Heart of flesh

New Heavens and New Earth


RIGHTEOUSNESS has long since been accorded to be attributed to FAITH in Christ, not to the law of Moses. The new Earth is the life of the person declared Righteous in his being and humanity for that faith. Righteousness of God dwelleth within the new earth of the living person; the New Temple.

There are several supporting evidences for the "new Heavens and new earth to be referring to God's favor of the ordinances of the everlasting covenant delivered by Christ.

One is that Paul quotes from Isaiah 65:2 in Romans 10. The context of Is 65 and 66 [and 59,61 etc] refer to the intercovanental time period of 40-70 AD. After the coming of Christ and the new covenant, following the way which is not good, or 'gainsaying [corporal] way' of the mosaic covenant is condemned by Paul.

Another supporting evidence in that in 2 Peter 2, Peter mentions the apostacy and spiritual idolatry/adultery error of the israelites [Balaam and Balaak in Numbers 22] which occured just before they crossed Jordan into the land of the mosaic covenant and at the tail end of the 40 yr wilderness wandering. Here in 2 Peter 2 and 3 [and other chapters] Peter is reminding them of this experience of the Israelites before the tail end of the 40 yr time frame of the 'New' Covenant. http://www.christianforums.com/t7653164/#post60422535

They were foretold that they would be tested to apostacize to Roman and Caesar lordship and citizenship so that they could be on high guard and know that this test was coming beforehand.

Rome held to the ordinances and beliefs handed down through centuries of greek mythological figures which can be traced to the lore of the 'mighty men' on the earth.

The same mention of the apostacy of Baliim is found in Hosea chapter 2. And I believe Paul refers to Hosea 1:11 in 1 Thess 4:15,17 and 2 Thess 2:1 as he writes to those in Asia minor to which Hosea relates.

Both these sections refer to a time of transfer and open revealing of the approval of new covenant ordinances by the judgment upon the other ordinances. Both those are time contexted to occur at the latter end of the 40 yr confirming establishment of the New Covenant by it's fulfillign the types set by the 40 yrs time period of the mosaic covenant.

The first century context of Isaiah 65 and 66 are supporting evidence of the pre-70 AD writing of Revelation. The 'one tree' in the New Garden and New Heavens and New Earth of Revelation are the ONE HEAD of Hosea 1:11. They are the comands, teachings and instructions of Christ in affirmation of Life and in contrast with both mosaic covenant [corporal, conditional] principles (elements) and in contrast with the humanist, superior men/races etc theology of mythological Rome.

The kingdom is Here, within you, just as he said. It is first a personal kindgom of adherance to his doctrine and freedoms. [One tree]

It was not of the ordinances of the Roman empire or anything similar.
Jesus also told Pilate that as of that time, his kindgom was not to be administered from "HENCE"; meaning that primary location they were when the words were spoken.. I.E. Pilates seat of authority and the Roman armies. In saying that, he implied to Pilate that his kingdom would be administered from "Hence" and through the Roman armies at some other time. And this was prophesied in Deut 32:42 to come through the heads of the leaders of Israels enemies during the time of the closing of the mosaic covenant and upon them who persisted to disbelief in the Living God and refused to hear the prophets [apostles]. This prophecy was added to in Dan 9 and Isaiah 59 [my right arm] and likely other places and was fulfilled in the first century.

Maybe some other time we could break down Isaiah 65,66 at [and 1] and go through some of the first century characteristics of those chapters. Not alot of extra time right now.

 

[Evergreen48]

We who believe are all children of God by faith in Jesus.

Yes , but did you never realise that faith in Jesus means DOING what he says as Lord ?

Yes, I realize that. I would like to say that I do my best at that, but the truth is that sometimes I don't do my best. But, I have this blessed hope that if I confess my sins he is faithful and just to forgive me and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness. If I say that I have not sinned, I make him a liar, and his word is not in me. (1 John 1:9-10.)

Jesus made several COMMANDS and only very few saints do them in this world today ... infact one can estimate the number from what Jesus said, it is about two thousand alive at any one time, scattered worldwide doing what Jesus commanded all his followers to do , for instance :-

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
and here then is the irony of mass religion of sinners, not only do they continue being sinners which is violating Jesus' command to love folks instead, thus he is NOT their Lord no matter what they say, until the stop

but also they never even read the scripture to find out who this House of Israel are whom they are COMMANDED to go look for !

Jesus does not command his followers of this day and time to go to the lost sheep of Israel. He gave these commandments to the twelve. He did send them to his lost sheep of the house of Israel, and as many as recieved him, to them he gave the exousia (authority) to become the sons of God. (The Jews considered themselves the children of God by natural birth right. IOW, because they were born of the Jewish blood line they considered themselves as his children. But John says in John 1:11-12 that what makes them true heirs was not because they were born of blood, or of the will of man, or of the flesh, but it was because they had beem BORN OF GOD. Jesus told Nicodemus the same thing in John 3:1-8. He told Nicodemus that he and his Jewish brethren must be born from above before they could see or enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus came preaching and teaching to his own people. When he said, "the kingdom of heaven was (at that time) at hand, he meant it! He was not telling them that thousands of years later he would come and pluck the good from the bad, and then punish the bad while rewarding the good thus establishing the kingdom of heaven, but rather he taught them that it was 'even at the doors', meaning that this was something that was to take place immediately at the close of the age in which they were then living. This is what his disciples were asking about in Matthew 24, and here is where he tells them what signs to watch for that would precede his coming. In the some forty years that went by after Jesus' ascension his disciples did as he commanded them and went about preaching and teaching the good news of his kingdom. They were the angels (messengers) that went forth and severed the wicked from the just; separated the good fish from the bad, separated the wheat from the tares , etc. (Matthew, chap. 13) Then came the day of reckoning! The Roman armies marched on the city of Jerusalem and practically burnt it to the ground, leaving very few of those wicked Jews alive. Josephus, the Jewish historian tells us that just before the Roman army's entry into the holy city of Jerusalem where their grand and glorious temple stood, the Roman armies, for some unknown reason brought their battle to a halt for a short while, and at that time the the gates which guarded the city had been left open, and many escaped and fled the city. Those that escaped, we now know, were those who believed Jesus. The atrocities that ensued after this on those who stayed makes a horrible story indeed! If you have not read Josephus' eye witness account of this, you should, as it might well open your eyes concerning this topic.

can one claim to believe in Jesus as Lord if one ignores what he says and commands ???? ... so do you not see that belief in Jesus is not just a matter of saying, but DOING what he says ? ... one needs to find out what he says [from saints - or from God when one stops sinning - so at least raed the scripture of saints and see what Jesus says before claiming you believe it ]

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Yes I do understand. I believe most Christians do understand.

 

[strangertoo]

What Ordinances and domain were the people under to whom the prophets wrote the words?
They were not written to the church, but prophesied to people under the mosaic covenant ordinances and domain {"old' heaven and earth]

Read the new covenant Heb 8:8-12 , it is with those whose fathers broke the old covenant :-

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers ...

these are then the same people, Israel's two houses , just the new generation ofboth the Jews and the paganised 'gentile' lost House of Israel

Just as Hebrews says that the "New" covenant is called NEW only in contrast with the mosaic covenant [book of Deut; see Deut 5:2-3] being called "OLD", so also the Ordinances and domain of the New covenant are called "NEW" in contrast with the mosaic covenant Heavens and Earth. The mosaic covenant was prophesied to be temporal. Otherwise, the 'new' covenant is the Everlasting covenant of Mercy [the seed promised to Eve] and is called "my covenant" as it is passed through Noah and Abraham.

it is exactly the SAME heavens and earth my friend... you are making this up

the heavens and earth don't change until after the return of Jesus , and then teh many are destroyed [Matt 7:13] in the wrath of God and the heavens are gone, the earth gone and God creates a new universe, heavens and earth new :-

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

there was no creation of a new earth when Jesus taught the new covenant with Israel , given to Israel long before Jesus came - Jer 31:31-34

RIGHTEOUSNESS has long since been accorded to be attributed to FAITH in Christ, not to the law of Moses.

that's just playing with words, faith in Jesus means OBEYING his command to Love , from God's Law of the Truth of Love , that men will be happy when they love one another ... God conbined with Moses to set down a collection of rules that would serve as Love for Israel in the dessert and beyond... a set of rules very much focused on their predicament , holding the tribes together under severe strain of their environment, desert ... but it is simply appropriate Love to their situation... and the problem of their breaking the law of Love is not any different than sinners breaking the Law of Love today ...

The new Earth is the life of the person declared Righteous in his being and humanity for that faith.

... faith without works is dead [James 2:20-26] , if one does not DO LOve then there is no Love no matter what one SAYS one believes in, people lie to themselves :-

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

as Jesus pointed out, mass religion must be utterly corrupted to faith bin lies before his return ... so one should READ the new covenant of grace [Heb 8:8-12] and see it is only with the descendants of the Jews and the House of Israel [living as gentiles amongst the gentiles] ... it is not with anyone else for very good reason , Jesus is only taking the kings and priests of the kingdom for now , listed as all descended from the sons of Israel [Jacob]- Rev 7:3-8 - only the few are saved in this world and the many destroyed [Matt 7:13-14] ... yet of that many , countless many are lATER saved [Rev 7:9-10]in the righteous kingdom come in teh new earth BY WORKS after death frees them for sin [so that they need no grace, unlike the few] :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rev 20:13 death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

contrary to what sinners falsely teach worldwide , Jesus says all are released from hell and countless many sinners of this earth are saved by works after death after resurrection to the kingdom , works judged at judgement day.

only the few saints are taken by Jesus at his return [Jude 1:14] only tens of thousands [144,000 according to Jesus] pout of oer 12 billion men that ever lived in THIS earth ...

the new covenant was given ONLY to Israel from God by Jeremiah [Jer 31:31-34] long before Jesus came to spread the news of it to the lost House of Israel ... the Jews already knew it from Jeremiah :-

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

The kingdom is Here, within you, just as he said. It is first a personal kindgom of adherance to his doctrine and freedoms.

adherance to Jesus' command means loving folks , so one has to STOP SINNING FIRST

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

and there in one verse is what is completely wrong with religion of sinners led by 'sinners priests' ... no-one can receive spirit baprtism until they stop sinning, so we have mass religions of people whose so-called 'priests' ordained by sinners are not baptised of the spirit because they are sinners too ... so no-one in mass religion of sinners receives all truth from God [John 16:13] because they continue to sin and sin is unloving abuse of others [to quote an example identified by the pope in his encyclical about priests not witnessing against paedophile priests sodomising choir boys ... that is extreme sin of priests so widespread that the church would lose too many priests if priests acted on conscience and put a stop to their fellow priests abusing children] ... but in general the churches of sinners admit they are all sinners and hope grace covers continual sin... it isn't so though [Rom 6:1-2. Rom 6:23-25] , only PAST sin can be forgiven , so sin is not forgiven at all until one stops sinning altogether and becomes a saint ... note howeever it is not for oneself to say, one can only hope that God will forgive , men easily lie to themselves... it is God's call then, not ours...

As for the kingdom now, it is ONLY n the hearts and minds of the FEW saints, obviously... God is unknown to sinners becase of their sin, unloving disobedience to God :-

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16 and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

it is sin then that keeps God out , prevents spirit baptism by God to know the ONE Truth of God and the future [John 16:13]

and thus sin PREVENTS entry to the kingdom, because without spirit baptism one cannot enter the kingdom :-

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

thus we know who is master of the mass religions of sinners and that it will take over the whole world - Rev 13:3-4- John confirms what Jesus says must happen to mass religion

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

we know how many saints Jesus takes , it means about two thousand alive at any one time scattered worldwide... so again there is no mass religion of followers of Jesus , they are few [Matt 7:14] and the rest of mankind is destroyed [matt 7:13] in the wrath of God against ALL still sinners after Jesus takes only tens of thousands of saints [Jude 1:14] at the first resurrection

Jesus confirms that he will DENY ALL sinners at his return :-

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

there we have the sad story of sin of man, but it did not stop with Israel's rejection nor with Israel's descendants' later unconditional acceptance by God in their new covenant

sin continues worldwide in the 'churches' of man's traditions of sin , Jews and gentiles ... only the church of God's few saints has eradicated sin as Jesus requires Love, no more sin, of his followers, will take no sinners at his return

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

thus it is no use SAYING one believes in Jesus, believes in Love, believes in God, if one sins against anyone at all ... God knows who is Loving and who is sinning ... sin is unloving, so Love means no sin :-

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

sin is thus addictive , by sinning one serves Satan , becomes his servant, not that of God ...

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

stopping sin means watching and keeping oneself then, not just talking about it, doing ...

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[strangertoo]

In Job 38:33 the Heavens are a term used for the ordinances of God from Heaven and the "earth" is the term for the domain of those ordinances.

Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

there are ordinances IN the heavens , from God of which god sets those who are under their dominion in the earth...

the ordinance of God is summarised as Love ... but the heavens are not the Love , God is the Love, and the heavens is where we picture the Love coming from as God is said to be there...

this scripture is thus way different from what you claim...

the new covenant came in with Jeremiah's revealing it to Israel - Jer 31:31-34 , long before Jesus came specifically sent by God ONLY to the lost House of Israel

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


and frankly there was NO CHANGE of earth or heavens


BUT there will be after Jesus takes the few saints [Jude 1:14] , destruction of the earth and heavens , destruction of the many sinners on earth left by Jesus [Matt 7:13-14]:-

2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[strangertoo]

Yes, I realize that. I would like to say that I do my best at that, but the truth is that sometimes I don't do my best.

Ezek 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

But, I have this blessed hope that if I confess my sins he is faithful and just to forgive me and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness. If I say that I have not sinned, I make him a liar, and his word is not in me. (1 John 1:9-10.)

if one had confessed truly , repented fully, then one would WATCH and keep oneself ... but it is God who judges, not us ... so indeed one would sin if one CLIMED oneself not to sin, it is God who judges , not us, folks lie even to themselves about their own sin :-

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

that is the FIRST truth God gives in spirit baptism to know all Truth [John 16:13] , the WHOLE truth about oneself and one's sins one does not want to admit to oneself... so one can repent FULLY , once for all stop sinning... that is what water baptism means , no life left in one's will to sin, dead to sin... if one sins again after that then there is little hope one will stop in this life because one has not only lied to oneself, but to God ...

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,
that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Roman 6:2 God forbid, how shall we, that are dead to sin,
live any longer therein?

thus the point is that sin is habitual, addictive ... if one does not stop because one WILLS to please God and become happy in LOVE , then inevitably Satan finds the sin one has NOT REPENTED FULLY and has one for life... it is as well then to take water baptism seriously indeed, and few do, some even baptise babies LOLOL ... [stop crying and repent you little brat sinner ? LOL? ]

Jesus does not command his followers of this day and time to go to the lost sheep of Israel.

that simply isn't true :-

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Matthew 10:23 Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

the reason is simple there can only be on average about two thousand saints alive at any one time because the church of saints of God never dies out and there are only 144,000, literally tens of thousands [Jude 1:14] by the time Jesus returns, and the cities in which Israel are found are all over the world ...saints also have to work for their living and help the poor as they go... the work is extremely demanding but if not doe then saints would die out... so they continue willingly ...and very few marry ...because that is just to get distracted loving one person, not everyone...Paul discussed this at length but sinners ignore it [and mostly go for fornication anyway]

He gave these commandments to the twelve. He did send them to his lost sheep of the house of Israel, and as many as recieved him, to them he gave the exousia (authority) to become the sons of God.

the majority of saints ARE the now forgiven descendants of the House of Israel, Jesus says so Rev 7:3-8 and the new covenant says so Heb 8:8-12,
amongst many other scriptures in NT and OT ... about 1 in 7 are Jews ...[tribe of Judah, half the tribe of Levi, and some of the tribe of Benjamin, i.e. the House of Judah]

(The Jews considered themselves the children of God by natural birth right. IOW, because they were born of the Jewish blood line they considered themselves as his children.)

yes, most Jews , as most gentiles , are sinners for life , it is addictive ... so their first chance to be saved will be once dearth has freed them from sin and they are judged by works of Love [or not] in the kingdom come by judgement day - Rev 20:13, Rev 7:9-10 ... notice that Jesus takes only the few , the 144,000 saints of this earth, because they are to be the kings and priests of the kingdom come, but consider whom they rule over eventually and serve, at the second resurrection.... for all the many destroyed [Matt 7:13] are freed from hell, death, and sin to the kingdom come after the Millennium to be saved by their works in the kingdom... thus Israel will save all the gentiles eventually, countless many who died in this earth as sinners saved already by judgement day :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

... one nation, not two, Israel as the kingdom's priesthood under Jesus the king of Israel, the Christ, the Messiah, anointed by Mary ... this the ritual for all kings of Israel ...

But John says in John 1:11-12 that what makes them true heirs was not because they were born of blood, or of the will of man, or of the flesh, but it was because they had been BORN OF GOD. Jesus told Nicodemus the same thing in John 3:1-8. He told Nicodemus that he and his Jewish brethren must be born from above before they could see or enter into the kingdom of God.

Well it's true that almost all Jews and almost all gentiles will be destroyed in this earth... Matt 7:13 ... and thoswe who are taken are ALL of Israel but the only ones taken by Jesus are those baptised of the spirit by God Himself , SEALED with the Holy Ghost [Rev 7:3-8] , which can ONLY happen nif one STOPS sinning :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Jesus came preaching and teaching to his own people. When he said, "the kingdom of heaven was (at that time) at hand, he meant it!

the kingdom [literally 'ruling'] of God did come close to them in Jesus and the saints... who showed folks God by their LOVE , no more sin.. but Jesus did not rule on earth at that time , nor since... one reason Jews reject him as their messiah ... but the kingdom come to the MANY simply CANNOT come now because men will mostly not stop sinning... so God cannot even baptise all flesh yet as promised [Joel 2:28], to know all Truth of God, understand the scripture in UNITY of God's truth, know the future [John 16:13] as the saints all come to do in life LONG BEFORE death... for LOV must be trialled a time in life to perfect it :-

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

note that this is trial of faith in LOVE, in God , and the only failure is ANY sin , for sin is breaking God's Law, Love is keeping God's Law ... sinners then just have to wait until the wages are paid in death if they will not stop min life :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

this then is why so few are mentioned in the new covenant, God has promised many times that Israel will be His saints, His kingdom of royal priests because He named them and wishes to show His power of prophecy
and God requires but 144,000 for that task ... the number is significant to the power process of salvation, that one man, Jesus, saves 144,000 who then each will save a similar number in ministry in the new earth kingdom come ... that is 20 billion, comparable to the number of men that ever lived... that is the power of Love in action, just as we see the power of sin taking over this world [Rev 13:3-4] and destroying it Matt 7:13

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. [Israel]

He was not telling them that thousands of years later he would come and pluck the good from the bad, and then punish the bad while rewarding the good thus establishing the kingdom of heaven,

Jesus is the one who 'plucks ' [translates after resurrection] the few saints , to be the kings and priests of the kingdom , a thousand years before tha many are freed from sin to the kingdom and countless many saved at judgement day

God has no need to punish anyone, the evil punish themselves , destroy this earth's viability , kill us all bar the few saints taken away from that insanity of men of sin...

God then has no use for this universe, simply creates a new one for the vastly greater numbers of men in the new earth... [ basically all that ever lived in this earth alive again at the second resurrection, needing PERFECT RULERS and PERFECT PRIESTS unlike the sinners we have in both authoritative roles in this earth under Satan ...

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

the kingdom cannot be allowed to become corrupt... those who sin in the kingdom die a second death to free them from sin yet again and go on to baptism of fire in the lake of fire... eveil by then so concentrated that the evil make each other miserable and sue for God's enduring mercy... ready at last to TRY Love... and of course it works, as Jesus says, the solutionto evil done against one is Love... Love then God then, shows His power in Love by Love... not by punishment ... all men punish themselves as sinners by living in conflict with conscience, heart of love, spirit, mind... there is noneed for any more than what God put in us ... the 'fire' that consumes sinners is already inbuilt ... and as Jesus says, all will accept him in the end.. it is inevitable... just a matter of when, and one man drags it out to the end of time ... the man of sin... so it is absurd to assert as paradoxically sinners do, that one must be saved in this earth , most men are saved in the next, few indeed find the way of Love, no more sin, now [Matt 7:14]

 

[Evergreen48]

Ezek 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.



if one had confessed truly , repented fully, then one would WATCH and keep oneself ... but it is God who judges, not us ... so indeed one would sin if one CLIMED oneself not to sin, it is God who judges , not us, folks lie even to themselves about their own sin :-

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

that is the FIRST truth God gives in spirit baptism to know all Truth [John 16:13] , the WHOLE truth about oneself and one's sins one does not want to admit to oneself... so one can repent FULLY , once for all stop sinning... that is what water baptism means , no life left in one's will to sin, dead to sin... if one sins again after that then there is little hope one will stop in this life because one has not only lied to oneself, but to God ...

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,
that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Roman 6:2 God forbid, how shall we, that are dead to sin,
live any longer therein?

thus the point is that sin is habitual, addictive ... if one does not stop because one WILLS to please God and become happy in LOVE , then inevitably Satan finds the sin one has NOT REPENTED FULLY and has one for life... it is as well then to take water baptism seriously indeed, and few do, some even baptise babies LOLOL ... [stop crying and repent you little brat sinner ? LOL? ]



that simply isn't true :-

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Matthew 10:23 Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

the reason is simple there can only be on average about two thousand saints alive at any one time because the church of saints of God never dies out and there are only 144,000, literally tens of thousands [Jude 1:14] by the time Jesus returns, and the cities in which Israel are found are all over the world ...saints also have to work for their living and help the poor as they go... the work is extremely demanding but if not doe then saints would die out... so they continue willingly ...and very few marry ...because that is just to get distracted loving one person, not everyone...Paul discussed this at length but sinners ignore it [and mostly go for fornication anyway]



the majority of saints ARE the now forgiven descendants of the House of Israel, Jesus says so Rev 7:3-8 and the new covenant says so Heb 8:8-12,
amongst many other scriptures in NT and OT ... about 1 in 7 are Jews ...[tribe of Judah, half the tribe of Levi, and some of the tribe of Benjamin, i.e. the House of Judah]

(The Jews considered themselves the children of God by natural birth right. IOW, because they were born of the Jewish blood line they considered themselves as his children.)

yes, most Jews , as most gentiles , are sinners for life , it is addictive ... so their first chance to be saved will be once dearth has freed them from sin and they are judged by works of Love [or not] in the kingdom come by judgement day - Rev 20:13, Rev 7:9-10 ... notice that Jesus takes only the few , the 144,000 saints of this earth, because they are to be the kings and priests of the kingdom come, but consider whom they rule over eventually and serve, at the second resurrection.... for all the many destroyed [Matt 7:13] are freed from hell, death, and sin to the kingdom come after the Millennium to be saved by their works in the kingdom... thus Israel will save all the gentiles eventually, countless many who died in this earth as sinners saved already by judgement day :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

... one nation, not two, Israel as the kingdom's priesthood under Jesus the king of Israel, the Christ, the Messiah, anointed by Mary ... this the ritual for all kings of Israel ...



Well it's true that almost all Jews and almost all gentiles will be destroyed in this earth... Matt 7:13 ... and thoswe who are taken are ALL of Israel but the only ones taken by Jesus are those baptised of the spirit by God Himself , SEALED with the Holy Ghost [Rev 7:3-8] , which can ONLY happen nif one STOPS sinning :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.




the kingdom [literally 'ruling'] of God did come close to them in Jesus and the saints... who showed folks God by their LOVE , no more sin.. but Jesus did not rule on earth at that time , nor since... one reason Jews reject him as their messiah ... but the kingdom come to the MANY simply CANNOT come now because men will mostly not stop sinning... so God cannot even baptise all flesh yet as promised [Joel 2:28], to know all Truth of God, understand the scripture in UNITY of God's truth, know the future [John 16:13] as the saints all come to do in life LONG BEFORE death... for LOV must be trialled a time in life to perfect it :-

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

note that this is trial of faith in LOVE, in God , and the only failure is ANY sin , for sin is breaking God's Law, Love is keeping God's Law ... sinners then just have to wait until the wages are paid in death if they will not stop min life :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

this then is why so few are mentioned in the new covenant, God has promised many times that Israel will be His saints, His kingdom of royal priests because He named them and wishes to show His power of prophecy
and God requires but 144,000 for that task ... the number is significant to the power process of salvation, that one man, Jesus, saves 144,000 who then each will save a similar number in ministry in the new earth kingdom come ... that is 20 billion, comparable to the number of men that ever lived... that is the power of Love in action, just as we see the power of sin taking over this world [Rev 13:3-4] and destroying it Matt 7:13

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. [Israel]



Jesus is the one who 'plucks ' [translates after resurrection] the few saints , to be the kings and priests of the kingdom , a thousand years before tha many are freed from sin to the kingdom and countless many saved at judgement day

God has no need to punish anyone, the evil punish themselves , destroy this earth's viability , kill us all bar the few saints taken away from that insanity of men of sin...

God then has no use for this universe, simply creates a new one for the vastly greater numbers of men in the new earth... [ basically all that ever lived in this earth alive again at the second resurrection, needing PERFECT RULERS and PERFECT PRIESTS unlike the sinners we have in both authoritative roles in this earth under Satan ...

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

the kingdom cannot be allowed to become corrupt... those who sin in the kingdom die a second death to free them from sin yet again and go on to baptism of fire in the lake of fire... eveil by then so concentrated that the evil make each other miserable and sue for God's enduring mercy... ready at last to TRY Love... and of course it works, as Jesus says, the solutionto evil done against one is Love... Love then God then, shows His power in Love by Love... not by punishment ... all men punish themselves as sinners by living in conflict with conscience, heart of love, spirit, mind... there is noneed for any more than what God put in us ... the 'fire' that consumes sinners is already inbuilt ... and as Jesus says, all will accept him in the end.. it is inevitable... just a matter of when, and one man drags it out to the end of time ... the man of sin... so it is absurd to assert as paradoxically sinners do, that one must be saved in this earth , most men are saved in the next, few indeed find the way of Love, no more sin, now [Matt 7:14]

Since it is apparent to me that we are on different levels of comprehension concerning the scriptures and things of the spiritual nature, I doubt there would be very much to be gained by further discussion between us. Thank you for your time invested, and God be with you.

 

[strangertoo]

Since it is apparent to me that we are on different levels of comprehension concerning the scriptures and things of the spiritual nature, I doubt there would be very much to be gained by further discussion between us. Thank you for your time invested, and God be with you.

that is the point about scripture , using God as a reference point until one is baptised of the Spirit to know all truth from God [John 16:13]:-

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

thus what point faith in sinners when one has the words of saints to lead one to being told by God Himself ?

 

[Ave Maria]

I view it as mostly fulfilled. The reason it isn't completely fulfilled is because Jesus hasn't returned yet.

 

[Timothew]

I view it as mostly fulfilled. The reason it isn't completely fulfilled is because Jesus hasn't returned yet.

I agree

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Ave Maria I view it as mostly fulfilled. The reason it isn't completely fulfilled is because Jesus hasn't returned yet.

I agree

Where in Revelation does it show Jesus returning?
A lot of us view Revelation as showing the destruction of OC Jerusalem as relating to the Olivet Discourse

http://www.christianforums.com/t7276015/
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?


......

 

[strangertoo]

Originally Posted by Ave Maria I view it as mostly fulfilled. The reason it isn't completely fulfilled is because Jesus hasn't returned yet.
Where in Revelation does it show Jesus returning?

as should be obvious from the one-ness of God's Truth and from scripture, the scripture isn't about people's views that divide amn, but simply a confirmation of God's Truth from His spirit when folks stop sinning [without which n-one can be saved explicitly according to scripture and against the views of the masses who will be destroyed -Matt 7:13]

Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. [Jesus the sacrificial Passover Lamb of God, saviour of all creation]

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. [Jesus born of Israel]

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. [c.f. Jude 1:14] [Jesus returns on the Mount of Olives after first the Antichrist enters from there ythrough the now-bricked-up East Gate to temple mount from the Mount of Olives, to declare himself God because all teh world worships him inunited mass religion of sinners Rev 13:3-4 - bar only a couple of thousand saints scattered worldwide of the church of God. [Jude 1:14]

A lot of us view Revelation as showing the destruction of OC Jerusalem as relating to the Olivet Discourse
http://www.christianforums.com/t7276015/
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?

hardly... whay not read it and ask God for understanding instead of listening to sinners who follow Satan ?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

Satan declares himself to be God - 2Thess 2:4 - Jesus says this MUST happen before Jesus' return... it has not happened , and there is no unity of mass religion under Satan's false god image, false christ image [antichrist ] yet as in Rev 13:3-4 ...

so how can one read scripture and even imagine it has already all occurred ?

2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

again, all one has to do is stop sinning so God CAN come within ... yet without this no-one can be saved ... and none can fake it because God reveals all Truth [John 16:13] and the future ...

so the problem of division of men in religion of sinners is simply that they are stiil sinners, not saints ... they do not know, so invent delusions about scripture , all different , unguided by the Holy Spirit, of Satan ... for that is how the NWO conquers the world , by first dividing, then seizing all power in the name of 'peace' between all nations... and this we must see BEFORE Jesus can return, uniting the world, but worshipping the wrong [false] god :-

Revelation 13:3 ... all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

... incredible prophecy by Jesus but we can see how far religion has already fallen away , divided men teaching others what simply CANNOT lgically be ONE truth of God, so must be of Satan, even before one checks against EVERY word of God and finds that the religion of sinners simply CANNOT lead to spirit baptism, without which one just cannot be saved ...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

we have seen Rome crucify the Hebrew saints who followed Jesus, the Inquisition continued the work, the Nazis tried to kill all the Jews to kill the few Jewish saints ... all failed to destroy the church of God's saints , but in the end Jesus has to return early to save the few left alive who are about to fail to resist the whole world united against them in worship of the wrong god image created by Satan..

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

again it is rather obvious that this has not occurred yet ...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Where in Revelation does it show Jesus returning?
A lot of us view Revelation as showing the destruction of OC Jerusalem as relating to the Olivet Discourse

http://www.christianforums.com/t7276015/
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?

hardly... whay not read it and ask God for understanding instead of listening to sinners who follow Satan ?

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

again it is rather obvious that this has not occurred yet ...

5 months was a rather short period of time to completely destroy a large fortified city such as Jerusalem

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

.....This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months,
the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.
Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses,........

Revelation 9:5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.

....

 

[strangertoo]

5 months was a rather short period of time to completely destroy a large fortified city such as Jerusalem

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

.....This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months,
the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.
Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses,........

Revelation 9:5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.

....

I doubt these are the only events in history/ future which last[ed] approximated to five months ... lasting five months by no means guaratees identity ... whereas , as I pointed out, some things are obviously future there is no reason why things in the future should not last five months ...

but let us examine the event you quote for some reason best known to yourself - but frankly pulling what sinners say off the web is no way of getting at the Truth of God and I suspect will continue with ever many more suggestions, private interpretations which God says are not valid :-

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Is it not clear from teh new covennat, stop sinning and God will teach one, God will teach all who are ever saved Himself, they will not teach one another because God will do so [Heb 8:8-12 , the REAL new covenant of God in your bible, copied from the Hebrew - Jer 31:31-34]

so let us look at the very next line :-

Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them

I see no reason to believe this has happened , folks continue to commit suicide until the new earth whne after the resurrection to the lake of fire death and hell are destroyed, no more death, no more hell, so no more suicide of those trialled by Satan to perfect their love...

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

I don't think anyone can find a way of projecting this into the past ...Gods word explains itself... but so much easier is to stop sinning and learn from God even without a bible by spirit baptism ... [John 16:13] as with all who follow Christ

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I doubt these are the only events in history/ future which last[ed] approximated to five months ... lasting five months by no means guaratees identity ... whereas , as I pointed out, some things are obviously future there is no reason why things in the future should not last five months ...

so let us look at the very next line :-

Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them

Ever been thru a siege, torture, famine or "holocaust".
Is it just "MEN" fleeing for men, women and children?
Some more tidbits from Josephus

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !......

....Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; and had actually eaten one half thereof, when the soldiers, allured by tile smell of food, threatened her with instant death if she refused to discover it...........

NKJV) Revelation 18:8 "Therefore her plagues will come in one day -- death and mourning and famine.
And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong [is] the Lord God who judges her.