How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

[Jack Terrence]

Not only did ISRAEL STILL EXIST to Paul,

Paul said this BEFORE ad70. He said it BEFORE God judged them.

but they had a BLINDNESS which was TEMPORARY - going to last "til the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" - so Paul -

How does this prove your futuristic interpretation? I have found that every time a futurist invokes Romans 11 as a "proof text" for his theories he must skip right over verse 5. Paul said that the remnant of Israel was being saved in his own time.

"Even so then, at this PRESENT time there is a remnant acccording to the election of grace."

This means that the salvation of Jews, or so called Jews beyond Paul's generation is NOT dealt with in scripture. And the fulness of the Gentiles also would be restricted to Paul's own time. So it does not matter whether Jews exist today or not. Post-apostolic "Jews" are NOT mentioned in scripture!! Neither is the salvation of post-apostolic Gentiles. It's all about the salvation of the chosen remnant in Paul's own time.

After God kept His promises by saving the remnant He was free to make their house "desolate." There are no tribes of Israel today. This is why Paul said that the gospel had to be preached to the "Jew FIRST." Because of the immanent judgment which was to come upon the Jews Paul had to get them into the Church like the captain of the sinking ship gathers the women and children into the lifeboats first.

Jesus said, "The ax is ALREADY laid at the ROOT of the tree." God was about to cut down Israel at the ROOT. A tree that is cut down at the ROOT is FINISHED for good!!

 

[Anto9us]

I absolutely did NOT "skip over verse 5" - look right in my post #959

-------------------
Rom 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

But at some LATER POINT than "at present" to Paul; he says "all Israel shall be saved"
-------------------

I am, at this point, not so much trying to "prove futurism" as to hold a light up to what people think and why they think it.

It is quite an eye-opener to me to see that people think "there is no Israel - there is no Judaism anymore" good grief - what's next? That the Holocaust never happened?

I would really like to see some Full Prets discuss anything, since the thread HAS BEEN MOVED HERE to UT - obviously SOME of those who voted "it's all been fulfilled" COULD HAVE BEEN Full Prets - this thread has been here for a while.

I can't see a dime's worth of difference anyway among any Prets

Paul wrote Romans perhaps "within a decade or thereabouts" of the world-ending 70 A.D. catastrophe; does anyone object to a late 50's - early 60's timeframe for the composition of Romans?

And we have - in Romans - an "at present" statement about a remnant - but we have another statement about a FUTURE event when "all Israel will be saved"

a remnant DOES NOT EQUAL "all Israel"

"at present" does not equal A TIME LATER - after fullness of the Gentiles has come in

is fullness of the Gentiles ALREADY HAPPENNED?

Is BLINDNESS LEAVING ISRAEL

ALREADY HAPPENNED?

When did they start seein again, and what did they see - and when was "all Israel" saved?

Well, as was pointed out WAY EARLY in this thread, it would have helped if "mostly/partially" had been split up into

mostly

&

partly

because the choice in the poll can include Pee-Pee's as well as Futurists who see "partial fulfillments" at 70 A.D. - I mean - that's what I voted

now I wish I knew how many people TRULY believe that there is "no biblical Israel or Judaism anymore"

I know there are a lotta muslims who WISH there was no Israel on the face of the earth

and I am beginning to wonder how many Christians would just be "OK with that" since there is "not a valid Israel in existence at all anymore" in the eyes of some

It's "already not yet" that ISRAEL has been THEOLOGICALLY wiped off the face of the earth (by some)


*******************************************************************************
if Israel is PHYSICALLY wiped off the face of the earth by her enemies, is that OK with most of yall?
*******************************************************************************


I don't know how PREVALENT this notion is of "no valid Israel anymore" - first I have heard of it is from 2-3 people in this thread

I think it's a pretty silly idea myself

 

[Anto9us]

Anyway - if Paul wrote Romans roughly a decade before "the world ended" in 70 A.D. - is this epistle - and his others STILL VALID for people post-70 A.D.?

Or should we consider Pauline theology

"passed away or never comin"

because he wrote prior to Temple destruction?

I would still be interested in what people think about "great TRIBULATION" never before or never since - if that was Temple destruction or not -- even if the TRIBULATION is something LOCAL TO JUDEA --

I submit that even the 70 A.D. destruction is not even - as a whole - as GREAT A TRIBULATION as Bar Kokhba Revolt in 132-135 A.D.; when Jerusalem was REALLY "plowed under" by the Romans, I mean literally plowed with yokes of oxen; like THAT TIME the Romans really MEANT BUSINESS and didn't want Jews to be able to bother 'em no more

I submit that the 70 AD Temple destruction plus a few years of persecution preceding it in no way "fully fulfills" the Matthew 24 description of GREAT TRIBULATION never been before and never been since

it's a TYPE - it's a Partial fulfillment - it can be seen as the earlier of a DUAL fulfillment

but to say 70 AD was

"worse than the Flood?
Worse than the holocaust and Hitler's persecution?"

Now come on.

 

[Jack Terrence]

I would still be interested in what people think about "great TRIBULATION" never before or never since - if that was Temple destruction or not -- even if the TRIBULATION is something LOCAL TO JUDEA --

They were already in the tribulation,

I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. Revelation 1:9 NASB

I submit that the 70 AD Temple destruction plus a few years of persecution preceding it in no way "fully fulfills" the Matthew 24 description of GREAT TRIBULATION never been before and never been since

it's a TYPE - it's a Partial fulfillment - it can be seen as the earlier of a DUAL fulfillment

but to say 70 AD was

"worse than the Flood?
Worse than the holocaust and Hitler's persecution?"

Now come on.

Your explanation that ad70 was a "partial" fulfillment is without any scriptural basis. The flood and the holocaust were NOT against Israel. The flood occurred BEFORE Israel was formed. There was no Israel yet. And since there has been no Jewish race since the first century, and since "Israel" today is NOT biblical Israel, then Hitler actually slaughtered a people that have no biblical significance whatsoever.

Hitler fell for the myth that the Jewish race still exists.

By His reference to the abomination of desolation in Daniel's 70th week Jesus implied that there would be no greater tribulation against Israel. It was to be about "Jacob's trouble."

It was to occur in Daniel's 70th and FINAL week. Jesus told His disciples that THEY would see it.

“Therefore when YOU see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)...."

In no other tribulation did God cut down Israel at the ROOT. Their house was "left DESOLATE."

 

[Anto9us]

I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. Revelation 1:9 NASB


Just out of curiosity, under whose reign was that TRIBULATION that John was under on Patmos,

Nero's? -- or Domitian's?

 

[Serpentslayer]

"And the God of peace shall crush satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY." Romans 16:20

Paul assured the first century Christians that God would crush satan under THEIR feet. It was to be done "SHORTLY."

I believe through revelation from God that parallels what John saw that satan is the beast of the bottomless Pitt who was once free as the symbol of the RED Dragon, who persecuted the pregnant women (1st Century Apostolic Church) that pained to deliver the Gospel of the Son under great tribulation.

This Dragon spewed water like the flood of people to chase those who had the testimony of Christ from town to town, city to city and managed to cast down a third of the witnesses (stars) by imprisoning and killing them.

So you have the Dragon who gave power to the earthly beast, the Herodean Dynasty and the LEVITICAL Pharisaical Harlot who rode the beast to persecute the 1st Century Apostolic Church.

Satan in Revelation of John is the beast of the bottomless who was said to be (before 70AD), then he was not (70AD) and will yet be again at a future appointed time when he is released.

The earthly SECOND COMING DOCTRINE is all about his release and coming as the king of this world, the wicked one, the abomination that maketh desolate (mother of all living idols) and the beast of the bottomless Pitt, the Son of Perdition, Apolyon.

Just like the true messiah came the first and only time to this earthly realm and showed the way to his heavenly Kingdom that he had already prepared for his bride, the devil will counterfeit his own coming as the SECOMG COMING.

The true messiah came first and so the second coming is the incarnation of the devil who is yet to come as the false messiah, for that is why earthly nation calling itself Israel has been setup and a two horn lamb (Christ) like Christianity has cropted up from the earth, who gives life to this first beast that was (before 70AD) and wasn't (70AD) and is again (1948) has manifested in the middle east before our eyes.

So Matthew 24 is partially fulfilled awaiting the great deceiver the imposter to manifest in the same way our lord incarnated himself into the world, satan will come in flesh. It is at this point after the sixth seal that God's cosmic judgements will bring an end to all things. That is why in Matthew 24 it shows of many manifested earthly Christ's appearing to deceive the nations and so Christ says if they say he is in the desert (earthly Israel) don't go there and if he is in the secret chambers do not go there.

It clearly states that God shortens those days because after satan comes he will be at it again to erase the true witnesses of Christ from of the planet, infuriating God the Father to eventually pour the vials of judgements on the planet and its inhabitants for that is why God says if he doesn't cut those days short for the sake of the elect no FLESH (life) will still be alive on a dying planet.

If you recall during John's time there were six kings, five of the Herodean Dynasty had died and the sixth who was Agrippa II was still alive. When John wrote his revelation as an exiled prisoner on the island of Patmos (Roman penal colony) he encrypted revelation to hide the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD and the identity of the exiled sixth king, king Agrippa II, who was taken to Rome and later died in 92AD.

But John didn't stop there you see, he would go on to say that when the beast that was and is not and will yet be again emerges a seventh king will come. Now this seventh king is also spiritually identified as the eight king. Now the number eight symbolises resurrection or incarnation. So John is saying the seventh king will be the incarnated devil himself who will reign from the beast that has already emerged in 1948. That is what the deceptive SECOND COMING DOCTRINE is about. It is setting up the world for the coming of the wicked one who will be worshipped as the mother of all living idols the abomination that maketh desolate.

Off course when he comes and kills off the true Christians then God will come on the great day of battle which is described as the great days of slaughter to kill every living thing lock stock and barrel.

There is an end and all these are indications that we are approaching the final hour of not the end of age as per the 1st century apostolic church perspective but the end of the world coinciding with the end of harvest. There is an end of harvest you know because Christ says so!

 

[Jack Terrence]

Satan in Revelation of John is the beast of the bottomless who was said to be (before 70AD), then he was not (70AD) and will yet be again at a future appointed time when he is released.

The earthly SECOND COMING DOCTRINE is all about his release and coming as the king of this world, the wicked one, the abomination that maketh desolate (mother of all living idols) and the beast of the bottomless Pitt, the Son of Perdition, Apolyon.

This interpretation is NOT at all possible for two reasons.

1. The new testament says NOTHING about Christ coming to the earth.

a. Paul EXLPICITLY said that Christ would descend from heaven and that His people would caught up to "meet Him in the air." There is no full descent to the earth.

b. Jesus said that they would see His sign "in the sky," (Matthew 24:30). The Jewish historian Josephus and the Gentile historian Tacticus recorded eye witness accounts of the sign of Christ's coming in the sky. He did NOT come to the earth.

c. Peter said that the Lord's coming is accompanied by the realization of the new heavens and the new land (2 Peter 3:10-13). There is NO intermediate earthly kingdom.

2. Jesus told His disciples that THEY would see the abomination of desolation. Matthew 24:15 (NKJV) :

"Therefore when YOU see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),"

This means that abomination of desolation was to appear in THEIR lifetime.

Just like the true messiah came the first and only time to this earthly realm and showed the way to his heavenly Kingdom that he had already prepared for his bride, the devil will counterfeit his own coming as the SECOMG COMING.

Not so! Paul said that God would CRUSH satan under the feet of the first century Christians. The word "crush" is the Greek word "suntribo" which means "to crush COMPLETELY" (Strong's #4937).

Satan is not immortal like Wile E. Coyote in the Looney Tunes cartoon. The Coyote would be crushed by a giant boulder and then in the next scene would be right back at it wreaking havoc. No! God dealt satan a mortal blow under the feet of the first century Christians (Romans 16:20).

Futurists deny that satan has been crushed. They appeal to verses such as, "Your adversdary the devil walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." They say that this is a "proof text" that satan is still alive and well. But this is NOT a valid argument because those words were written BEFORE God crushed him.

The true messiah came first and so the second coming is the incarnation of the devil who is yet to come as the false messiah, for that is why earthly nation calling itself Israel has been setup and a two horn lamb (Christ) like Christianity has cropted up from the earth, who gives life to this first beast that was (before 70AD) and wasn't (70AD) and is again (1948) has manifested in the middle east before our eyes.

I see that you have been reading the FUTURIST'S BOOK OF FAIRY TALES.



The year 1948 has NO prophetic significance whatsoever. First, biblical Israel no longer exists. Second, Ezekiel said that they were to walk in God's statutes and do His judgments. Then he said, "THEN they shall dwell in the land" (Ezekiel 37:24-25).

Those imposters who dwell in the land today are NOT walking in God's statutes. They are NOT doing God's judgments. These must come FIRST. "THEN they shall dwell in the land." Therefore, 1948 is totally meaningless.

It clearly states that God shortens those days because after satan comes he will be at it again to erase the true witnesses of Christ from of the planet, infuriating God the Father to eventually pour the vials of judgements on the planet and its inhabitants for that is why God says if he doesn't cut those days short for the sake of the elect no FLESH (life) will still be alive on a dying planet.

Keep reading your fairy tales my friend.

There is an end and all these are indications that we are approaching the final hour

We are NOT approaching the final hour. John said that the final hour had ALREADY come.

Little children, it IS the LAST hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it IS the LAST hour. 1 John 2:18 NKJV

 

[Anto9us]

So was John on Patmos under Nero or Domitian?

It's a simple, historical question.

 

[he-man]

This interpretation is NOT at all possible for two reasons.1. The new testament says NOTHING about Christ coming to the earth. a. Paul EXLPICITLY said that Christ would descend from heaven and that His people would "meet Him in the air." There is no full descent to the earth.

:o Rev 5:10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth."

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and the rulers and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers shall serve and obey him.'

Peter said that the Lord's coming is accompanied by the realization of the new heavens and the new land (2 Peter 3:10-13). There is NO intermediate earthly kingdom.

:o Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession.

9 You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."

10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth.

2. Jesus told His disciples that THEY would see the abomination of desolation. Matthew 24:15 (NKJV)This means that abomination of desolation was to appear in THEIR lifetime.

:o Luk 21:27And then they will see the Son of Man coming with the hosts with power and great glory.
31So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
32Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place.

Christ said that in the times of the millennium, when the gospel should spread universally, and that the "Jews" would return and rebuild Jerusalem and the temple. This is the opinion of the Jews and of many Christians

"How long" it is to be before this occurs is known only to Him "who hath put the times and seasons in his own power," Act_1:7.

The year 1948 has NO prophetic significance whatsoever. First, biblical Israel no longer exists. Second, Ezekiel said that they were to walk in God's statutes and do His judgments. Then he said, "THEN they shall dwell in the land" (Ezekiel 37:24-25).

:o Luk 21:36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Rev 7:14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

But for the wicked on that day:
Th 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

 

[coraline]

So was John on Patmos under Nero or Domitian?

It's a simple, historical question.

Nero. He was the one "who is" of Rev.17. I believe he had already killed Paul & possibly Peter, to make him "the man of sin" with all the workings of Satan. Even the "little horn" of Daniel 7.

And the great tribulation from AD67- 70.5 was not a "type." It was the antitype of OT prophecy.

Typology is this: there is a "type" from the OT, then there is an "antitype" a fulfillment, in the N.T.
Since the antitype in the NT was fulfilled, from Daniel 12 prophecy, there is no more "type" to be fulfilled beyond that generation Jesus called "wicked." There is no 3rd Testament!

This lesson should help you understand God's apocalyptic language:

Greatest Tribulation Ever
Matthew 24:21
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The language that Jesus used in Matt. 24:21 is a hyperbole, an extreme exaggeration to make a point. Jesus applied this verse to the destruction of Jerusalem in the Jewish War (66-70 A.D). This kind of symbolic language was common in the Old Testament whereas if it is taken literally it yields contradictions. For example compare the following two verses.
2 Kings 18:5
He (Hezekiah) trusted in the LORD God of Israel, so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor who were before him.
2 Kings 23:25
Now before him (Josiah) there was no king like him, who turned to the LORD with all his heart, with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the Law of Moses; nor after him did any arise like him
How can Hezekiah and Josiah both be the most devoted kings of all time. They cannot. The language is obviously hyperbolic. This hyperbolic language was also applied to other earthly judgments besides 70 A.D.
Exodus 10:14
And the locusts went up over all the land of Egypt and rested on all the territory of Egypt. They were very severe; previously there had been no such locusts as they, nor shall there be such after them.
Exodus 11:6
Then there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as was not like it before, nor shall be like it again.
Ezekiel 5:9
And I will do among you what I have never done, and the like of which I will never do again, because of all your abominations
Daniel 9:12
And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
Daniel 12:1
"At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered,

Joel 2:2
A day of darkness and gloominess,
A day of clouds and thick darkness,
Like the morning clouds spread over the
mountains.
A people come, great and strong,
The like of whom has never been;
Nor will there ever be any such after them,
Even for many successive generations
So Matt. 24:21 is a hyperbole borrowed from the Old Testament used to describe the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
Another line of thinking is that the first century Jews crucified Jesus. Their crime was the worst in history. Therefore their punishment was the worst in history covenantally speaking. Worst crime = Worst punishment. Israel was divorced by God as His covenant people. Never again would the Jews have a special status with God. Now in Christ their is neither Jew nor Greek.

 

[Anto9us]

coraline - I agree with ya that it is Nero - I disagree that it is "the last of the types"

As said, even the Bar Kokhba Revolt was a worse "persecution" than under Nero - it was in 132-135 A.D. - Jerusalem was obliterarted like Titus only dreamed about - oxen plowed the grounds of Jerusalem - Rome was out to wipe it out after many battles like they did Carthage by sewing salt in the ground there

Neither two "persecutions" even come CLOSE to a global flood as per Noah or the holocaust and persecution under Hitler.

Not same BALL PARK -- not even the SAME GAME.

NO way they even hold a candle to either one.

...

he-man - I'm proud of you.

You got some knowledge on things besides "wages of sin is death"

I salute you

 

[Jack Terrence]

Rev 5:10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on (epi) the earth."

No! They shall reign "over the earth." I added the Greek word "epi" in parentheses to your quote. The Greek word "epi" may also be translated "over." Jesus used it in Matthew 28:18 saying, "All power has been given unto me in heaven and over (epi) the earth."

At the right hand of God Jesus reigns over (epi) the earth without being on it.

Besides, Jesus as a descendant of Jeconiah cannot legally reign in physical Jerusalem because God took the earthly throne away from Jeconiah's descendants (Jeremiah 22:28-30). But as a son of David Jesus may legally reign in heaven, for God promised David that his throne would ascend to heaven (Psalm 2:6-7 with Acts 13:33).

You forgot to do your homework he-man.

Paul CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY said that the Lord would descend from heaven to catch His people upward to meet Him in the air. This makes no sense if He descends all the way to the earth. There is NOT one statement in all of the new testament which says that Christ comes all the way to earth. Your appeal to Revelation 5:10 is inconclusive at best as I have shown above.

The view that Christ will reign on earth (Premillennialism) was condemned as "superstition" by the Council of Ephesus in 431. By calling the Premillennial view "superstition" they meant to say that it is a cult.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Hi All,

Just thought I would give a variety of translations of Romans 16:20. Paul said that God would crush satan under the feet of the first century Christians. This was to happen "SHORTLY."

Greek: ὁ δὲ θεὸς τῆς εἰρήνης συντρίψει τὸν Σατανᾶν ὑπὸτοὺς πόδαςὑμῶν ἐν τάχει. ἡ χάρις τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ μεθ' ὑμῶν.

Amplified: And the God of peace will SOON crush Satan under YOUR feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) be with you. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)

NLT: The God of peace will SOON crush Satan under YOUR feet. May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. (NLT - Tyndale House)

Phillips: IT WILL NOT BE LONG before the God of peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet. May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. (Phillips: Touchstone)

Wuest: And the God of the peace will trample Satan under YOUR feet SOON. (Eerdmans)

Young's Literal: and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under YOUR feet QUICKLY; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen!

No more for tonight. It is bed time.

Be back tomorrow.

 

[coraline]

coraline - I agree with ya that it is Nero - I disagree that it is "the last of the types"

As said, even the Bar Kokhba Revolt was a worse "persecution" than under Nero - it was in 132-135 A.D. - Jerusalem was obliterarted like Titus only dreamed about - oxen plowed the grounds of Jerusalem - Rome was out to wipe it out after many battles like they did Carthage by sewing salt in the ground there

Neither two "persecutions" even come CLOSE to a global flood as per Noah or the holocaust and persecution under Hitler.

Not same BALL PARK -- not even the SAME GAME.

NO way they even hold a candle to either one.

...

he-man - I'm proud of you.

You got some knowledge on things besides "wages of sin is death"

I salute you

Well, " Biblical typology" isn't about individual opinions. It's established study. Just as the study of "Feasts of the Lord" in OT typology have their fulfillment in Christ in the N.T.

Did you acknowledge the use of hyperbolic language in my post?
Wouldn't you say Jesus was speaking in "hyperbolic terms" about plucking out your eye if it made us sin. to emphasize a point or not? Hmm?

Anything AFTER God had left the building made with hands in AD70 is irrelevant. And purely man-made & secular.

Everyone reaps what they sow. Sometimes God does act in favor of a person or even a country.

An example of this nation "under God" is in 1814, when the British almost burned down Washington Dc, the capital. & the white house .

God sent a miraculous storm that put out the fires & sent the British into retreat.

Just as another Jewish temple was attempted to be built under the emperor Julian (in about 360 AD) who hated Christians- God struck down their efforts at its foundations, & the project was abandoned.

So, God does not dwell in temples made with hands. (Acts 17:24)

We are His temples.

Ps.- Noah's flood was local too. Ir's a hyperbole. The foundations of the "earth" were never destroyed either. Just the wicked people therein.

 

[he-man]

No! [Rev 5:10] They shall reign "over the earth." I added the Greek word "epi" in parentheses to your quote. The Greek word "epi" may also be translated "over." Jesus used it in Matthew 28:18 saying, "All power has been given unto me in heaven and over (epi) the earth." At the right hand of God Jesus reigns over (epi) the earth without being on it.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus coming up spoke to them, saying, All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth. The context tells us how to use the word [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]εφ’ έπ’ έπί towards, upon, after, against, for, on, over[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]All these translations do not agree with your word OVER:[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Revelation 5:10(MOUNCE)(NOG)(NASB) (NCV)(NET)(NIRV) (OJB)(RSV) (VOICE)(WEB)(WYC)(YLT)(CEV)(DRA)(ESV)(EXB) (GNV)(GNT)(HCSB)(PHILLIPS)(JUB)(ERV)(LEB)(TLB)(CEB)(ASV)(KJ21) and hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and we shall reign on the earth.”
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]
You then think these should be translated as lighting OVER him and but OVER a candlestick?

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, " Biblical typology" isn't about individual opinions. It's established study. Just as the study of "Feasts of the Lord" in OT typology have their fulfillment in Christ in the N.T.

Did you acknowledge the use of hyperbolic language in my post?
Wouldn't you say Jesus was speaking in "hyperbolic terms" about plucking out your eye if it made us sin. to emphasize a point or not? Hmm?

So, God does not dwell in temples made with hands. (Acts 17:24)

We are His temples.

Ps.- Noah's flood was local too. Ir's a hyperbole. The foundations of the "earth" were never destroyed either. Just the wicked people therein.

Here is an interesting study on that:

The Genesis Flood: Why the Bible Says It Must be Local

Introduction

"The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it!" The phrase is a common argument used for those who call for the "literal reading" of the Bible. I have no complaints against reading the Bible literally. However, many who claim to be literalists apparently do not believe everything the Bible says. Creation passages clearly say that God caused the original global seas to be restricted - never to cover the entire earth again. The Genesis flood passage itself says that the water covered "the entire earth" even though Noah could see the distant mountains, indicating that the "earth" was just the entire land of Mesopotamia.

Rich Deem

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The Bible says the flood was global?

Many Christians maintain that the Bible says that the flood account of Genesis requires an interpretation that states that the waters of the flood covered the entire earth. If you read our English Bibles, you will probably come to this conclusion if you don't read the text too closely and if you fail to consider the rest of your Bible.

Like most other Genesis stories, the flood account is found in more places than just Genesis. If you read the sidebar, you will discover that Psalm 104 directly eliminates any possibility of the flood being global (see Psalm 104-9 - Does it refer to the Original Creation or the Flood?). In order to accept a global flood, you must reject Psalm 104 and the inerrancy of the Bible. If you like to solve mysteries on your own, you might want to read the flood account first and find the biblical basis for a local flood.




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[Jack Terrence]

Mat 28:18 And Jesus coming up spoke to them, saying, All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth. The context tells us how to use the word [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]εφ’ έπ’ έπί towards, upon, after, against, for, on, over[/FONT][/FONT]

All these translations do not agree with your word OVER:

So you're saying that Matthew 28:18 teaches that Christ reigns on the earth now? No way! He reigns OVER it. Come on!

You have no conclusive evidence from Revelation 5:10 that the saints will reign on the earth. The word "epi" may be translated "over" as I have already stated. It is translated "over" in Romans 9:5 which says that Christ is "OVER all." Other examples from the NKJV:

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him OVER (epi) the works of thy hands. Hebrews 2:7

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
And having an high priest OVER (epi) the house of God. Hebrews 10:19-21

Now note Revelation 2:26:

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power OVER (epi) the nations:

There it is! The saints have power "over" the nations. So Revelation 5:10 means that they reign "over" the earth.

ALL thrones in the Revelation are seen IN HEAVEN. So you don't have a leg to stand on!



Don't forget that the earthly throne was taken away from Jeconiah's descendants. Jesus was a descendant of Jeconiah. Therefore, He could NOT legally reign on an earthly throne. But He could reign on a heavely throne.

Quote:

Jesus, through His life, death, and resurrection, was given all authority in heaven and on earth, and thus sat on the throne of His father David and rules over the people of God for all time (cf. Matthew 28:18-20, Luke 1:31-33). Because Jeconiah sinned the physical throne was taken from his descendants; yet, since Zerubbabel served the LORD, God chose him, and we all can be the beneficiaries of that choice through Jesus. Let us praise God for His provision for all of us, and serve Jesus as the Risen Lord! - See more at:

zerubbabel - Spiritual Manna

God got around it by exalting David's throne to heaven (Psalm 2:6-7 with Acts 13:33).

 

[101c]

GINOLJC,

Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost".

if the kingdom is in the Holy Ghost. who is the Holy Spirit?. 2 Corinthians 3:17a "Now the Lord is that Spirit". and the Lord is the Son of Man.
who is the Son of man?. watch the bold, and the underline. Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle".

Matthew 12:8 "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day".

the Son of man is Spirit and Power, Luke 17:20 "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you". within you?, (see John 14:16 &17)​

so when did the Holy Ghost/Son of Man come?. Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance".

1 Corinthians 4:20 "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power".

Matthews 24 is fulfilled.

be blessed,

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"
ask, and it shall be given unto you, ignorance cannot defeat you​

 

[Anto9us]

1Pe 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is,


eight souls were saved by water.

 

[coraline]

1Pe 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is,


eight souls were saved by water.

What's your point?

You must post the passage & not just a few verses to understand what Peter is saying anyway. (& even what you are trying to say)

Notice Peter uses the word "antitype" Antitype in the NT is the fulfillment of the OT "type" In this passage, it is about the disobedient dead spirits being preached to by Jesus so they could "live" with a good conscience towards God, & be resurrected to heaven literally, in the resurrection of the dead (Rev.20:11)

Jesus, by the Spirit went into Hades & preached salvation to those who formerly lived only in the flesh & drowned in the Flood.


1Pet 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

continuous to 1Pet4: Therefore, since Christ suffered for us[a] in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime[b] in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Serving for God’s Glory

7 But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.

Note: the end of all things Old Covenant was about to occur. The old heaven & earth covenant would wax old & pass away & the new covenant - the new heaven & earth would come. (New Jerusalem)